upndownshop 0 #51 March 22, 2006 I know Sun Path hasn't received it either. www.sunpath.com if you need an address to. thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #52 March 22, 2006 I'll make sure Judy gets it off to you! Thanks for letting me know! BethskydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deathtrap 0 #53 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotewhen we have our next staff meeting to confirm a NEW LOWER price than last year.....We are lucky to have a terrific representation from tons of our manufacturers, and distributors, Last years(05) vendor fees were a major point of contention for many of the manufacturers in attendance.May I suggest that LOWER prices for vendors be discussed at this meeting as well.Otherwise I predict you will have less than terrific representation from the manufacturers at this years boogie. Hey Lou! Already done! And the manufacturers apparently LOVE the discount, as they are reserving their spaces now. _______________________________________________ Attached are the vendor prices from the WFFC's vendor packet from 2004,2005, and 2006 No price change! Except for the tent prices went up! Snowwhite maybe the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing here. With the size that the WFFC used to be I could see that happening quite often, but now with the lower attendance I dont understand this. And in the WFFC's 15 year history I know that you would never mislead the public with false information. cough jet cough With such a small community that we are, word gets around pretty quick. I hope this is just a misunderstanding on all of this, but can we get some real answers? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #54 March 22, 2006 Well Rick, you have just part of the information here, so I understand your confusion. There is a substantial discount for early registration for vendors. If you are a vendor and would like a vendor packet sent to you, just let me know, and I will make sure that you get a chance to save some $$$$$skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jceman 1 #55 March 22, 2006 QuoteWell Rick, you have just part of the information here, so I understand your confusion. There is a substantial discount for early registration for vendors. If you are a vendor and would like a vendor packet sent to you, just let me know, and I will make sure that you get a chance to save some $$$$$ Well, he's not the only one confused then, Beth. I have my Vendor's package sitting right here and I just checked and rechecked -- there is absolutely NO information about any discount for early registration and the prices are identical to last year's. This does not bode well. Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Why do they call it "Tourist Season" if we can't shoot them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #56 March 22, 2006 QuoteThis does not bode well Things that make you go HMMM. If thats the case then I foresee a majority of last years vendors passing on this years WFFC and going else where instead. So what is considered "early registration" and what are the discount prices? Seems there are quite a few vendors out there who haven't heard of this early registration discount."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #57 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteThis does not bode well Things that make you go HMMM. If thats the case then I foresee a majority of last years vendors passing on this years WFFC and going else where instead. So what is considered "early registration" and what are the discount prices? Seems there are quite a few vendors out there who haven't heard of this early registration discount. Scott, I checked my records, and had Judy check hers. I am not sure how much of a discount you are looking for......skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #58 March 22, 2006 QuoteQuoteWell Rick, you have just part of the information here, so I understand your confusion. There is a substantial discount for early registration for vendors. If you are a vendor and would like a vendor packet sent to you, just let me know, and I will make sure that you get a chance to save some $$$$$ Well, he's not the only one confused then, Beth. I have my Vendor's package sitting right here and I just checked and rechecked -- there is absolutely NO information about any discount for early registration and the prices are identical to last year's. Hey Jack, nice talking to you! Yea, thanks for helping me clear this up. The discount is on rigging manufacturers and suppliers only. We know that the vendor fee got up there, at about the same time that the crowd numbers came down. What we are trying to do is to bring it back to a level playing field, so that not only can we still afford to have the Convention, but people can afford to come and have a great time. The tents, porta potties, water, electricity, trucks, cars, shuttle carts, trailers, fence, and all other form of sundry incidentals are things that we still have to pay for in one form or another, and our hope isn't to make a million bucks, but our fervent desire is to not LOSE a million bucks.skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #59 March 23, 2006 QuoteI am not sure how much of a discount you are looking for...... You mentioned a vendor discount and I am wondering what this discount is since there doesn't seem to be a difference in price from last year and this year. QuoteWhat we are trying to do is to bring it back to a level playing field, so that not only can we still afford to have the Convention, but people can afford to come and have a great time. I don't understand that statement. Since the last several conventions, vendors and jumpers have been saying that they cannot afford to attend with the current prices and wouldn't return unless they dropped.Apparently all the requested feedback on how to make the event better wasn't taken into consideration again. This is sad. The 05 convention turn out proved that people prefered to go elsewhere. Frankly, I fail to see how ignoring the mfgrs request for lower fees is going to encourage them to come back this year. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #60 March 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteI am not sure how much of a discount you are looking for...... You mentioned a vendor discount and I am wondering what this discount is since there doesn't seem to be a difference in price from last year and this year. QuoteWhat we are trying to do is to bring it back to a level playing field, so that not only can we still afford to have the Convention, but people can afford to come and have a great time. I don't understand that statement. Since the last several conventions, vendors and jumpers have been saying that they cannot afford to attend with the current prices and wouldn't return unless they dropped.Apparently all the requested feedback on how to make the event better wasn't taken into consideration again. This is sad. The 05 convention turn out proved that people prefered to go elsewhere. Frankly, I fail to see how ignoring the mfgrs request for lower fees is going to encourage them to come back this year. HUH?!! Once again Scott, I checked the records of what you paid in vendors fees last year (and every year I could find records for easily) and it seems that you should be the LAST person to complain about prices. I have already shared that info with a few people who have called to ask me what this silly thread has turned into, and they are really surprised that you would keep adding fuel to the fire.skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #61 March 23, 2006 QuoteI checked the records of what you paid in vendors fees last year (and every year I could find records for easily) and it seems that you should be the LAST person to complain about prices...I have already shared that info with a few people who have called to ask me what this silly thread has turned into, and they are really surprised that you would keep adding fuel to the fire. Well call them back and tell them that I shared a tent and payment with Wings(03 &04) and Aerodyne(05) respectively for the last 3 years.In fact, I delt directly with you and 2 others while still in Afghanistan trying to nail down our usual spot for last year and this year I am trying to do it from Colombia.I am not trying to add fuel to the fire but I find it hard to sit by quitely and not say anything when obviously there is a problem with the way things have been handled.This shouldn't come as any surprise as there are plenty of threads here on DZ.com from the general public supporting what I am saying. I am simply saying out loud what others say amongst themselves, in hopes that maybe these needed changes will be made and this event will regain its popularity among the mfgrs and jumpers alike. This is one of my favorite boogies and I hate to see it continue on a downward spiral.Lower the vendor prices and mfgrs will want to come back to WFFC. Until then, expect to see mfgrs attending smaller boogies more often.It's simple economics."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BillLockwood 0 #62 March 23, 2006 If all of the stuff you listed above is "free" then why does it cost $69.00 to get to the "free" stuff? And as I remember, the entry fee went from $59.00 to $69.00 to pay for the new bathrooms/showers, clearly those are paid for, so is the fee going to drop back to the $59.00? What is being done to attract the vendors back? The WFFC has the highest entry prices with the highest jump prices, how is it that other large boogies like the Eloy holiday boogie can pull it off with cheaper entry fees, free vendor space and lower jump tickets? It is time for Don to step up to the plate and tell everybody what will or will not be done and end the speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Snowwhite 0 #63 March 23, 2006 [And as I remember, the entry fee went from $59.00 to $69.00 to pay for the new bathrooms/showers, clearly those are paid for, >>Paid for! Oh you kidder you!!! Ever take out a mortgage on a house? Try telling the bank that hey, I made a years payment, so it's paid for now, right? It is time for Don to step up to the plate and tell everybody what will or will not be done and end the speculation. >> and that is what he is doing, just watch the website www.freefall.comskydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #59 March 23, 2006 QuoteI am not sure how much of a discount you are looking for...... You mentioned a vendor discount and I am wondering what this discount is since there doesn't seem to be a difference in price from last year and this year. QuoteWhat we are trying to do is to bring it back to a level playing field, so that not only can we still afford to have the Convention, but people can afford to come and have a great time. I don't understand that statement. Since the last several conventions, vendors and jumpers have been saying that they cannot afford to attend with the current prices and wouldn't return unless they dropped.Apparently all the requested feedback on how to make the event better wasn't taken into consideration again. This is sad. The 05 convention turn out proved that people prefered to go elsewhere. Frankly, I fail to see how ignoring the mfgrs request for lower fees is going to encourage them to come back this year. "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #60 March 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteI am not sure how much of a discount you are looking for...... You mentioned a vendor discount and I am wondering what this discount is since there doesn't seem to be a difference in price from last year and this year. QuoteWhat we are trying to do is to bring it back to a level playing field, so that not only can we still afford to have the Convention, but people can afford to come and have a great time. I don't understand that statement. Since the last several conventions, vendors and jumpers have been saying that they cannot afford to attend with the current prices and wouldn't return unless they dropped.Apparently all the requested feedback on how to make the event better wasn't taken into consideration again. This is sad. The 05 convention turn out proved that people prefered to go elsewhere. Frankly, I fail to see how ignoring the mfgrs request for lower fees is going to encourage them to come back this year. HUH?!! Once again Scott, I checked the records of what you paid in vendors fees last year (and every year I could find records for easily) and it seems that you should be the LAST person to complain about prices. I have already shared that info with a few people who have called to ask me what this silly thread has turned into, and they are really surprised that you would keep adding fuel to the fire.skydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #61 March 23, 2006 QuoteI checked the records of what you paid in vendors fees last year (and every year I could find records for easily) and it seems that you should be the LAST person to complain about prices...I have already shared that info with a few people who have called to ask me what this silly thread has turned into, and they are really surprised that you would keep adding fuel to the fire. Well call them back and tell them that I shared a tent and payment with Wings(03 &04) and Aerodyne(05) respectively for the last 3 years.In fact, I delt directly with you and 2 others while still in Afghanistan trying to nail down our usual spot for last year and this year I am trying to do it from Colombia.I am not trying to add fuel to the fire but I find it hard to sit by quitely and not say anything when obviously there is a problem with the way things have been handled.This shouldn't come as any surprise as there are plenty of threads here on DZ.com from the general public supporting what I am saying. I am simply saying out loud what others say amongst themselves, in hopes that maybe these needed changes will be made and this event will regain its popularity among the mfgrs and jumpers alike. This is one of my favorite boogies and I hate to see it continue on a downward spiral.Lower the vendor prices and mfgrs will want to come back to WFFC. Until then, expect to see mfgrs attending smaller boogies more often.It's simple economics."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillLockwood 0 #62 March 23, 2006 If all of the stuff you listed above is "free" then why does it cost $69.00 to get to the "free" stuff? And as I remember, the entry fee went from $59.00 to $69.00 to pay for the new bathrooms/showers, clearly those are paid for, so is the fee going to drop back to the $59.00? What is being done to attract the vendors back? The WFFC has the highest entry prices with the highest jump prices, how is it that other large boogies like the Eloy holiday boogie can pull it off with cheaper entry fees, free vendor space and lower jump tickets? It is time for Don to step up to the plate and tell everybody what will or will not be done and end the speculation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snowwhite 0 #63 March 23, 2006 [And as I remember, the entry fee went from $59.00 to $69.00 to pay for the new bathrooms/showers, clearly those are paid for, >>Paid for! Oh you kidder you!!! Ever take out a mortgage on a house? Try telling the bank that hey, I made a years payment, so it's paid for now, right? It is time for Don to step up to the plate and tell everybody what will or will not be done and end the speculation. >> and that is what he is doing, just watch the website www.freefall.comskydiveTaylorville.org freefallbeth@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
upndownshop 0 #64 March 23, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteI am not sure how much of a discount you are looking for...... You mentioned a vendor discount and I am wondering what this discount is since there doesn't seem to be a difference in price from last year and this year. QuoteWhat we are trying to do is to bring it back to a level playing field, so that not only can we still afford to have the Convention, but people can afford to come and have a great time. I don't understand that statement. Since the last several conventions, vendors and jumpers have been saying that they cannot afford to attend with the current prices and wouldn't return unless they dropped.Apparently all the requested feedback on how to make the event better wasn't taken into consideration again. This is sad. The 05 convention turn out proved that people prefered to go elsewhere. Frankly, I fail to see how ignoring the mfgrs request for lower fees is going to encourage them to come back this year. HUH?!! Once again Scott, I checked the records of what you paid in vendors fees last year (and every year I could find records for easily) and it seems that you should be the LAST person to complain about prices. I have already shared that info with a few people who have called to ask me what this silly thread has turned into, and they are really surprised that you would keep adding fuel to the fire. This is your answer to a popular vendor who brings people to your event? I see nothing silly about this thread. Well put Lou. You weren't the only vendor that shared tents that last few years either. I know the cost of running an event so I understand the challenges, but why dont you take a look at the other events that charge a vendor fee and look at their attendance. Charging the vendors in the industry is a thing of the past. In regards to early registration wasn't that only a $200.00 discount and it ended March 17th? We still dont have the packet, nor do others? No vendor fees is where this event needs to go. When it becomes the largest event in the world again, then you (WFFC) might be in a position to negotiate. WFFC is a major part of our history, has accomplished great things, lets figure out a way to keep it going, not end up in the history books this year. Hope I didnt come across as rude. But we still dont have an answer from Lou's questions. We would not be discussing this if it wasnt important. Thank you J Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyberdyber 0 #65 March 24, 2006 Im right there with ya. I know how expensive events can get having put on a ton. But WFFC should be giving the vendors the tents for cost at least. For that matter, they should be selling tents on DZ row for cost. Back in the glory days of Quincy, I remember we would have 20 to 40 folks from our DZ packing at the DZ row tent. It really helped solidify whether the group was going that year when they made that kind of commitment. After all, the jumpers are who make the event happen. But you have to make it affordable to encourage people to come back to an event widely considered "on its way out". Especially when it costs a fortune just to get there thanks to gas prices. I would really like to see WFFC be huge again. It may help Don to go back to the roots and treat it as if it were a smaller event again and build it back from there. http://www.skydiveatlanta.com http://www.musiccityskydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #66 March 24, 2006 QuoteCharging the vendors in the industry is a thing of the past First off a disclaimer: This is my own personal opinion and may not reflect that of my employer. I agree to a point. I think that the WFFC should not be expected to absorb the costs of the tents, nor the labor hours to put them up.(Eloy owns their tents and uses staff to erect them) If WFFC were to ask manufacturers to cover the actual man hours to put up their tent plus a small reasonable rental fee I think it would be fine. In the past it was having the manufactuers at the convention that brought people to WFFC. In essence the manufacturers boogie if you will. When it becomes too expensive for the manufacturers to attend...guess what? People will stop coming...people can crunch the numbers anyway they like to from convention but truth is...its getting smaller every year. (I won't even get into the aircraft vendor portion of this discussion.) So from a business stand point it looks like this: cost for services up, services provided down, employee wages up, lodging up, meals up, tickets up, attendance down. It would seem to me, that it would be reasonable to listen to the vendors. The current program is obviously not working. So my suggestion is this. Come together with a reasonable solution so that the WFFC can continue. The exchange should be an equitable one that works for WFFC and the vendors. The vendors want to come...but they just can't justify the associated costs under the current structure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #67 March 24, 2006 Just wonder what vendors ARE going to WFFC?????????? still waiting on my vendor package showing the prices reduced or outherwise ..59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #68 March 24, 2006 I would really think that this is an issue with certain smaller vendors. I wonder if vendors would rather pay cost of the tent + % of total sales during the boogie? of course you would have to have some monitoring and trust, but then again this sport has some emphasis on trust of eachother. I looked at the wffc message board and it's to skydivers it's"6.90 a day" as it is posted. Does that mean there will be some prorating done if you are only coming for an extended weekend? Or is there an option for a daily fee? something like 10$ a day for 1-5 days or 69$ for the entire thing? Are spectators (adults) charged a small nominal fee for watching? I'm sure the food vendors make out fairly well even with the hirer rents. Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #69 March 24, 2006 QuoteI'm sure the food vendors make out fairly well even with the hirer rents. You obviously are NOT in the food business!!! <> Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buried 0 #70 March 24, 2006 QuoteYou obviously are NOT in the food business!!! Nope! thx for mentioning the reality though Where is my fizzy-lifting drink? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jpjc2000 0 #71 March 25, 2006 Just charge vendors COST on tents & space, and a small percentage of gross sales during the event. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #72 March 25, 2006 Replying in general: I just don't fillow this "just charge cost" thing. I'Ve never read that the WFFC was a non-profit event. If you've ever put on even a small local boogie you have an idea of the work that goes into it. The market - people that go to boogies - will with Don - the organizer of the boogie - determine the fate of the boogie. I have seen many long term business that can't be sold go out of business on there terms. Simple put they raise there prices as high as they can for as long as they can, reaping the higher profits. In the end it's like "buying yourself when no one else wants to" It will be interesting to see what changes are made that were suggested by the customers. If you really want to understand the direction of WFFC look at that. Having said that, I went to the convention four years in a row and then skipped four years. I'm seriously thinking of going this year. Is it cheap. No. But for around three jump tickets I can party with a lot of friends and make new friends, for as many days as I want. Jump plenty of good planes. I don't care if the manufactures show up or not. On the other hand I might got to L.P. I have never been to that boogie and I hear it's fun,Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #73 March 25, 2006 here is my prediction 1..NO reduction in vendor or jumper fees or costs may use smoke screen to make it look like a reduction such as pay by the day,hour,min. 2..vendors will go somewhere else more vendors go where overhead is less 3..Higher cost to the jumper have to pay for boogie somehow 4..attendance will drop like a rock till either the event go's away or changes are made 5.. another boogie somewhere will step up to the plate in the same general time and replace WFFC this is afterall a MARKET ADJUSTMENT where would you go with limited advertiseing dollars.a location that charges you just to show up or one that wants and respects your (vendor) presants jumpers want vendors at boogies as that is a great oppurnity to see,feel,tryon and actually talk to a factory rep. when was the last time you saw an event advertised where there was NO mention of vendors??59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #74 March 25, 2006 I don't think "one" boogie will ever replace WFFC. What I DO think is that people will split their boogie time between several other larger boogies, like Dublin, Couch Freaks, SkyFest, etc. I know very few vendors who will be making the trip to Rantoul this year. It's simply too expensive these days for us. It's still a fine deal for jumpers in my opinion though. I can, and do, always get my jumper registration money's worth in beer. Chuck chuck@bird-man.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #75 March 26, 2006 You just want to go so you can show off in your WT jumpsuitMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
