Kuper 0 #1 March 7, 2003 i saw the main opens badly. it didn't get a form of normal canopy... i had some lines around the risers. i thought that maybe it was a resault of a bad packing. i didn't know (till i got down to earth) that it is a problem of two lines (from the center of the nose) that were torn... the opening of the main was at alt. of 4500FT, which means i had enough time to break it and pull the reserve. i didn't do that, because i thought i can land with this (NOT) canopy. i landed (if u can call it 'landing') not in the DZ, on rocks and bushes. i got a strong kick in the ass, and my leg hurts too. 15 sec after the 'landing' i was on my feet again, checking i haven't break anyting. when we checked the canopy - there were those 2 torn lines. i learned many things from that malfunction. the main thing i learned is: NEVER THINK TWICE IF YOU HAVE ENOUGH ALTI TO PULL A RESERVE - THERE IS NO MAIN WHICH WORTH A LANDING LIKE I HAD TODAY. AND IT COULD BE FINISHED WORSE !it was my 15 jump. i wanted to get on the plane again, but the manager told that i should rest a litlle with my back now.... Blue sky everyone and keep on flying!http://www.orikuper.printroom.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #2 March 7, 2003 You should have cut away. When in doubt ~ Cutaway before your decision altitude. I am glad you are ok, though I am slightly disapointed at you for not executing your emergency procedures properly...Canopy control checks immediately after opening is a good habit to develop. Pulling high enough to be comfortable in any situation to execute you emergency procedures is a good idea. Avoiding obstacles when landing is a good idea. Keep your head up high and get right back in the sky if possible. Rebuild your confidence. At least you can learn from this experience if you know what I mean Some people don't get to learn from mistakes... Be good, be safe, be an old skydiver... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
payback462 0 #3 March 7, 2003 did you do a control check after you opened? glad your ok!but just dont think this excuses you from buying beer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dom 0 #4 March 7, 2003 Glad you are ok. Sound like a good lesson was learned. Remember, some lessons are best learned from personal experience, but some carry too high of a price to pay hence we rely on others knowledge. When in doubt, you do have a perfectly good canopy stashed away for you by your favorite rigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ixlr82 7 #5 March 7, 2003 Just curious to know. What was your control check like? What was the canopy doing when you did a left turn,right turn,flare? Very obvious problems or not sure? __________________________________________ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #6 March 8, 2003 i didn't actually see this happen, but i did see the canopy after he had landed and heard the story. should he have cut away ? sure. i guess the control check passed because it was a 290 student canopy, and he is not a heavy guy, but i'm sure he'll get back to you on that. not talking specifically about this case, i think the problem is not just "executing emergency procedures", but more "recognizing the emergency" its not always easy to associate what you see over your head (a not perfect canopy form) to a text book malfunction. too bad the only way of getting experienced with malfuntions is having one anyway, you landed, you lived, you've learned a good lesson for the future. smile and keep jumping O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuper 0 #7 March 8, 2003 Quote problem is not just "executing emergency procedures", but more "recognizing the emergency" thats right. and as answer for ixlr82+payback462 : i did 2 (not completed) flares, and a turn or two. i saw from the beginning too much lines around the canopy and the risers - and therefore i thought it was maybe a packing problem. i didn't try to solve the problem of the lines on one side, because i was afraid that will cause damage in the other side... i didn't see the torn ends of the lines (just on ground - 2 lines from the nosewere torn) , but i did see the nose of the canopy 'folded in'. it was really a problem of 'not recognize or diagnose' my emergency - TORN LINES@^$#*!# i succeeded to stay at the direction of the DZ so i thought 'ok, i'll land with this thing'. I was wrong. i had to cut away. i had enough time and alti and relaxation to do that... today my entire body hurts, and i believe it'll hurt in the next few days too... i' learned a lesson and i hope next time i'll do the right (CUTAWAY!) thing on time...blue sky ! i can't enjoy that GREAT weather here in Israel today but i hope u guys can... falxori - please jump and have fun today for me too. ok?http://www.orikuper.printroom.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #8 March 8, 2003 Let's discuss different philosophies for teaching students how to recognize malfunctions. Some instructors try to get students to memorize the names of 43 different types of malfunctions. I believe that those instructors are wasting time. My personal teaching style devotes most of our time to teaching students what a good main canopy looks like: rectangular, lines straight, etc. My lesson on emergency procedures consists of: "if it does not look like a good main parachute, pull more handles." Then we spend a half hour practicing "pulling more handles" on the ground. I know that someone is going to flame me for giving an overly-simplified description of my first jump course. So bring on the flames! Hee! Hee! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #9 March 8, 2003 QuoteMy personal teaching style devotes most of our time to teaching students what a good main canopy looks like: rectangular, lines straight, etc. Curious as to what "ect." includes... As a person who had a cutaway early on, my "decision tree" consisted of... Huh, that doesn't look right. Huh, where's my other brake line? And did they forget the slider? Huh, do end cells go that far in? Huh, why am I spinning around like this? Huh, can I land this canopy flying like this? Since the answer to the last question was a resounding no, I grabbed and pulled. Then freaked out when I was under the reserve... Not flaming, simply curious. Do you (and other instructors) teach that if it isn't flying "right", something's wrong, rather than just "looking" right? And is this even teachable to someone who's only been under canopy say, never or once? Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #10 March 11, 2003 Quote Do you (and other instructors) teach that if it isn't flying "right", something's wrong, rather than just "looking" right? And is this even teachable to someone who's only been under canopy say, never or once? I think it can work. A student is taught how to turn left, turn right, and flare. So they can be taught an additional sign of a serious malfunction. It's not just the shape of the canopy, or whether they immediately find themselves spinning. I try to tell students that -- in the end -- it also matters whether the canopy will do what it is supposed to do when they fly it. Does it fly straight when the toggles are let up or during a flare? Does the wind noise go down when you flare? Does it turn left or right when left or right toggle is pulled? Still, there can be mals that are hard to interpret for a novice, like the one that started this thread. The canopy was 'sort of' rectangular, and it probably 'sort of' responded to control inputs properly. It may be a dropzone myth, but I heard of a student who cutaway because something didn't quite seem right...it turned out the canopy was a different color than the one they saw in the training video... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Push 0 #11 March 11, 2003 Hey Peter, packing for Arizona yet? I think a valid question here is, how does a student know if the canopy is descending too fast? If, lets say, some of the lines broke but you can't recognize it for some reason, parts of the canopy will receive no force from you while others will receive more than usual, so I'm guessing that the canopy will descend faster, but it will probably steer kinda sorta ok. How can you tell you're going down fast enough to hurt? -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
