mujie96 0 #1 February 9, 2003 Yesterday on my first jump of the day I had a fantastic headdown jump with a friend. I waved off at 3500 and pulled by 3000. As I complimented myself for the lovely, on-head opening I had packed I reached up, used the rear risers to inflate my end cells and looked at the view for a second. I was under a beautiful, perfect canopy. I reached up with both hands to release my brakes simultaneously and things got hairy. My left brake came unstowed as normal but my right side wouldn't budge and I immediately went into a violent spin, swung all the way out form under the canopy in a fast, rapidly descending spiral. I tried to yank down on the toggle I had to stop the spin, which didn't work. I tried to dislodge that toggle probably 3 times before I checked my alti (as I had done as soon as the canopy was open) and realized that at the rate I was losing altitude, with my experience level and with the centrigufal forces yanking one everything, I needed to do something really fast....so I made a face, arched, pulled red-which took one hand to pull and one hand to finish pulling (I either have short arms or long cables and they needed a little help), swore to myself I wouldn't drop the pretty silver handle, took one second to get myself back on my belly (I kind of got flung a decent way from the main when I cut it away), and BAM-there was this beautiful, BIG white canopy over my head at 1300-1500 ft...and I dropped the handle on opening. I had time to set up a pattern, had a soft landing and a great spot, my freeebag landed on the landing area at the DZ, the main on the grass by the packing area and I still had the cutaway handle. As soon as I had thre presence of mind, I went to grab the canopy from the packer that picked it up for me, but it had already been looked at. If the toggle was still stowed, and I think it was, someone had yanked it out already-and I think that's the case (I was a little dazed). A friend who watched me from the ground said it looked line a line over, but having looked at the canopy after opening I believe I made an error stowing that brake and simply couldn't dislodge it due to the centrifugal forces of the spin, and the shock of the fastest spinning malfunction (really the only one except for some mega lines twists that I managed to kick out of on a way larger canopy) I've had. Could I have fixed it? If I'd had a cutaway before and another couple hundred jumps, maybe. Was I willing to screw around with it when I wasn't sure and risk riding a spiraling canopy into the ground? Absolutely not. Looking at the altitude I got under the reserve at, I'm happy with my decision. I learned to be doubly anal about the way I set my brakes and stow my excess. I also learned that should this happen again, I need to wait a little longer until my adrenalin returns to a more human level to look at the canopy-because I stood over that canopy after it was picked up, moved, and moved again but I don't remember what I saw the first time I checked the toggles out. So beer $70, reserve repack $45, new handle with fast shipping about $30, walking to my car alive and unmaimed to go to the liquor store.....priceless. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 February 9, 2003 Good job on your first cutaway! Now, a question, how do you stow your excess brake line?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #3 February 9, 2003 It changes depending on which packer is standing nearby and wants me to to do it his way. Normally, I tuck it near the top of the slink, into that little area right over it. Yesterday I stowed them on the field without stowing the excess, meant to do it when I packed, got irritated at the almost brand new ZP and decided to pay to have the pack job finished (now that I realize it, that sweet opening wasn't all mine), so the excess was tucked along the side of the riser in the container. Suggestions? Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 February 9, 2003 Quote tuck it near the top of the slink, into that little area right over it. That is very bad. Let me tell you how I stow the excess. I set the brake but before I stow the toggle, I pull the excess around the riser and put the end of the excess over the top of the toggle, then stow the toggle. This keeps the excess out of the way and secure to help prevent a brake popping out and it puts the excess away in such a way that it won't get stuck in the risers, etc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #5 February 9, 2003 Point taken. I'll start doing it that way. Thanks. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #6 February 9, 2003 Just one thing to point out about the altitudes you noted and the thinking that you, maybe with more experience, would have tried to correct it for longer. If you were in a fast decent spiral and ended up under a reserve at 1300'. How much more time would you feel you would have had to execute the chop and deploy given more experience? Sounds like no RSL and you took the time to get belly to earth again. Again I think its great you did the chop and congrats on the first one, you did right! BUT given the experience do you think you had much more time than you gave yourself already? Under a spinning 120 a full 360 is going to drop you quick, as should be noted by the height the reserve was open compared to a approx 3000' opening just prior to the spin. I have no idea on the load you have on the canopy but it sounds like you were going fast. this is just something to think about... Believe me I am not trying say you did anything wrong at all, you landed under a good canopy after a problem so you did the right thing. This is just an observation on your description of the event. Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #7 February 9, 2003 Honestly, I don't think I would have done anything differently if I had 500 or 1000 more jumps...but not having those jumps I can't say. I'd like to say that with more experience I might have been able to correct the spin and unstow the brake but yesterday it only took me a second or two to realize that I didn't have time to think and I just acted. For reference, my exit weight is about 145 so I'm loading at 1.2. I disconnected my RSL at about 70 jumps-I think they're a good idea for really new jumpers and students where any kind of pull is better than none at all but I wanted to have the option to take a second to get stable again in case of a malfunction. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #8 February 9, 2003 QuoteMy left brake came unstowed as normal but my right side wouldn't budge and I immediately went into a violent spin, I had the same thing happen to me on jump #100. I simply grabbed the opposite rear riser to maintain level flight, and used my free hand to release the stuck toggle. It was a bitch to do with one hand, but even if I hadn't been able to free it, I could've cut away from the main while flying straight. Just a suggestion for an alternative course of action for the next time that happens. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
amir1967 0 #9 February 9, 2003 I had about the same on jump 60 or so the loop was too big and came over the toggel , I couldn´t get it loos so after 3 attmpt or so was at 2000 and decided to land it with one stuk and one pull to half brake toggel , was not my best landing ever but at the time and now still I think I will not chop it. but that´s me . happy that reserve work good for youAM67 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #10 February 9, 2003 Mujie - glad you here, nicely dealt with A quick observation, with a bit of practise you can learn to consistently fire your brakes by pulling both toggles down to the height where they would be set anyway. In this way if one gets stuck you'll only just have started a dive before the canopy is flying evenly again. I think I've been doing this for quite a while, but I've not thought conciously about it until you posted this so all comments welcome. Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoby 0 #11 February 9, 2003 I had a stuck toggle on jump 32. The slider grommet on one side came over the toggle and trapped it. When I pulled on the toggles, one came free and I went into a spin that got fast quickly. Thankfully, I had opened at about 4 grand and it was a docile Spectre 190. I managed to pull the slider off the trapped toggle and got it free at about 2500. A second or two more and I would have chopped. When I got to the ground, I was told the thing to do was opposite riser while I freed the toggle. I felt a little silly, but learned a good lesson. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #12 February 9, 2003 Quote I waved off at 3500 and pulled by 3000. I don't do headdown, but that seems a little low to smoke it and then pull. I thought you headdowners usually broke off higher. At 120 mph, 500 feet is less than three seconds. Is that enough time to transition from head down with a friend to a track to pulling? I had a brake stick on me when the excess loop of the brake caught the tab on the slink, so that when I grabbed the brake to unstow it, it tightened the loop up almost to a knot. Now I clear the excess before I unstow, when I remember.If you had those 500 to 1000 more jump of which you spoke, you may have taken a wrap on the brake which was unstowed to make the canopy fly straight, and then flare the landing using rear risers. Just a possible scenario (that's what I did), because what you did was perfect. Good job.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mujie96 0 #13 February 9, 2003 We broke off from the FF jump at 5000 (we only held HD to maybe 7 or 8000 then went into a sit) and I went to my belly and tracked a few secs, then watched the ground get bigger until 4000, had a fantastic spot and was eager to land this canopy (its so much fun) so I waved at 3500 and pulled. I would say that 5000 is a conservative breakoff point for a two way, and allows plenty of time for separation, wave off, and pulling. I maybe should have tried harder to stabilize the canpy, if this ever happens again I'll know. Thanks for the advice and support. Just keep swimming...just keep swimming.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #14 February 10, 2003 >I tried to yank down on the toggle I had to stop the spin, which didn't work. As a suggestion, next time you have some extra altitude try this again -release one toggle and use it to control the canopy without touching the other one. It can be done. You may not want to land like this depending on the canopy, but if you're low it can be a lifesaver. Also, even if you chop it anyway you can chop from a stable body position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #15 February 10, 2003 Wow, Mujie! Good job on recognizing and immediately dealing with it as you saw fit...( This is one of those times where I am not sure to say congratulations or damn, I'm sorry...know what I mean?) Glad to hear you know what to do, and pleased that you did it. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jayhfx 0 #16 February 10, 2003 congrats on your chop!!! sounds like you were pretty heads up. Reading your account I had the same thing happen to me where I only released one toggle due to the other being stuck. It was on my 3 jump on a zpo canopy. I controlled it with the opposite rear riser till I cleared the toggle. What I discovered after a review on landing was that it was actually a tension knot created by myself not taking the twists out of my brake line rather then anything to do with excess line. Just another possiblility thats all. peace jay Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cheneyneel 0 #17 February 10, 2003 My first chop was similar.. I had my left brake came undone and wrapped into a knot on the opposite side rear riser.. Dont ask me how but video looks cool as I watched it happen.. Fast spinning mal I am glad that I got rid of my RSL because I would have never thought to undo it before I chopped because the spin got fast quick!! It was a Velocity demo loading 2.1:1 Crappy risers was the culprit and it scared the shit out of me.. Plus I almost lost the canopy into lake Erie aswell.. And they call it Erie for a reason!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #18 February 10, 2003 Great job on responding to what you considered an emergency and executing your procedures! Appropriate action sure beats the alternative... Not to undermine your decision process AT ALL, but keep in mind: Your reserve is the last canopy you've got. Being able to fix a minor problem on on your main, while maintaining Altitude Awareness, gives you more options to work with. In the future, you might consider doing some riser flying or single-break flying to give you some experience in situations like these...it'll buy you some more time to work through the problem. You don't have to land in that configuration, but at least experience it! Again, good job on being pro-active, now finish the job by extending your education! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #19 February 10, 2003 Mujie, Good job, and glad everything worked out well! Quotenext time you have some extra altitude try this again -release one toggle and use it to control the canopy without touching the other one. It can be done. Bill, Any specific things to keep in mind when trying this intentionally? It is something I haven't messed with, but I can see the benefit, so I'm planning to give it a go the next time I open high. Any likeliness of severe spin up on a non-eliptical at 1.2:1? Chances of having difficulty getting the second toggle undone later? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #20 February 10, 2003 The reason for purposely releasing a toggle is to simulate a broken break line, so that you'll have an idea as to what you'd need to do if you ever encounter a real problem. Now you shouldn't be spinning too much on a non-eliptical canopy loaded at 1.2:1, but you will be turning unless you don't control the situation with your rear risers. I definitely still have my free fly goals which is to emulate the Flyboyz before I die (nothing that a few thousand jumps shouldn't resolve), but I'm starting to realize that I also need to dedicate a certain percentage of my jumps as canopy control jumps where I work on exactly this sort of scenario. So the next time (assuming it's not too cold out) I find myself in a solo situation, I'm going to make sure I can pull high and do these sort of things. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #21 February 10, 2003 >Any specific things to keep in mind when trying this intentionally? Just be prepared for it to want to turn hard. As you might expect it will turn harder and harder the longer you leave it alone, so don't let it get too wound up. Also, to stop the spin, pull the free toggle down just a little more than the 'trapped' one. On some canopies, pulling the free one down all the way can cause a stall. >Any likeliness of severe spin up on a non-eliptical at 1.2:1? Chances > of having difficulty getting the second toggle undone later? I tried it on a Sabre 150 at 1.3 to 1, no problems releasing it later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jfields 0 #22 February 10, 2003 Thanks for the info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slim 0 #23 February 10, 2003 Sorry to hear about that, but sounds like you were on top of it! I saw a student have to cut away this weekend. got into a flat spin, he cut away and I swear it threw him 50ft before his reserve popped out. props to the both of you for not losing your head. >>> A good friend will bail you outta jail... A true friend will be sitting next to you saying "That was fucking awesome!!!' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #24 February 11, 2003 Quote I simply grabbed the opposite rear riser to maintain level flight, and used my free hand to release the stuck toggle. Use 2 hands, it goes quicker Have had stuck toggles a couple of times, once i even had both come free and twist around each other(unevenly, of course) about 20 times (no shit.. i have the video to prove it.. see image) Anyway, what i've found works great is pulling the free toggle down past your face until you're in level flight.. the bite the line there to hold it and you can work on the other brake with both hands. Obviously this is easier on a canopy with light toggle pressure, please don't go ripping your teeth out using this, but it's worked well on several occasions Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 February 11, 2003 Dude, you could sale that pic to the folks who did the Breakaway video...scary.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
