kenetch 0 #1 January 26, 2003 Hi everybody. I have a question? Some on my instructor recomended me to buy a sabre2 150. This is becose the complete rig is too expensive to me and i can't change the pricincipal parachute many times. They told me when i have 50 jumps i can use it. I have 31 jumps today and my exit weight is 185. I jump in a city is 4500 feet over sea level. I have jumped in a sabre 190. what do you think about this? I don't have an accident and i don't buy mi rig two times? Thanks in advance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #2 January 26, 2003 Go 170 unless you have the money for the hospital trips and for some pins to be inserted into your femers. Even on a 170 its easy to need pins to put you back together, but on a 150 its even easier. And at 4500 feet thats a lot fasterthen you'd be at sea level.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #3 January 26, 2003 Perhaps you may want a new instructorGet a 170. Not only will it be safer, lessening the chance for the pins described in the post above, You will learn a lot more. You will weigh the 170 down just fine. It will be fun. Unless you get a rig that the 170 fits loosely, you can replace the canopy with a 150 in a couple hundred jumps. My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #4 January 26, 2003 Phree and Hookit are giving you sound, intellegent advice. that Sabre2 would put you at a 1.2 Wing and those semi-elipiticals come in hot some times. especially if you get caught in a jam, or an off landing, a no wind day, you'd be losing 40^feet of canopy, think about it.--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unutsch 0 #5 January 26, 2003 i don't see a problem with the 150 as long as you take it seriously and remember, that the landing procedure starts at the very moment you open your chute. but most importantly, STAY SAFE!!!! Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation: http://www.padliangeli.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenetch 0 #6 January 26, 2003 Thanks everybody for your advice. I will take them seriusly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenetch 0 #7 January 26, 2003 .... and i'm sorry for my stupid post .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefalle 0 #8 January 26, 2003 Hey Kenetch, Do NOT appoligize for your post, you had a very good question and you asked it. This form is all about asking questions and getting information. You will not ask a stupid question here. be safe orthopedic surgeons are expensive! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #9 January 26, 2003 QuoteHi everybody. I have a question? Some on my instructor recomended me to buy a sabre2 150. This is becose the complete rig is too expensive to me and i can't change the pricincipal parachute many times. They told me when i have 50 jumps i can use it. I have 31 jumps today and my exit weight is 185. I jump in a city is 4500 feet over sea level. I have jumped in a sabre 190. what do you think about this? I don't have an accident and i don't buy mi rig two times? Thanks in advance 1st off buy used if possible. 2nd I jump at DZs that are between 4500-6700ft. At sea level if you are very heads up, on the ball, and had proper canopy training, you would probably be fine under the 150. The rules change when you get up to these elevations. Canopies fly ~2 sizes smaller than at sea level, on a nice 50 degree day, now change that to the middle of summer it's 90+ and the density altitude is over 10,000 ft (I heard it several times last summer over AWOS), now your canopy is flying even smaller and faster. Then you have to land off in someones back yard or in a very tiny clearing in the trees. Could you walk away from those landings 10 out of 10 times? The smallest I would even think about going if I were you would be a 170. The majority of the people around here would get a 190, those that were just natural canopy pilots, on the ball, and activly getting coaching would get the 170. This is where getting used comes in, you can fit more than 1 size main in a container. So buy a used container that fits your 190 or 170, then buy a used main, from there downsize mains. Wait to buy new until you know you are going to stay with that combination for awhile. Also, put the above issues into your what size reserve you are going to buy.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #10 January 27, 2003 Save bucks and get a better canopy buying a 170 Hornet. Downsizing (like the SabreII) is really over rated. Get the 170 and learn to fly the shit out of it... then consoder the 150. Take canopy progression SLOW and you will jump for a lifetime! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #11 January 27, 2003 QuotePhree and Hookit are giving you sound, intellegent advice. that Sabre2 would put you at a 1.2 Wing and those semi-elipiticals come in hot some times. especially if you get caught in a jam, or an off landing, a no wind day, you'd be losing 40^feet of canopy, think about it. Yep.. What they said... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eWave 0 #12 January 27, 2003 My weight is ~65 kg. I jumped my student time using Navigator 220. When I got my C-license (Finland), I have jumped my friends Merit 150 with no problems. I have now ordered my own rig, with Sabre2 135, 1:1,23. It's really up to you, what you can jump. Recommended sizes for my weight here are 135 and 150. Maybe other countrys recommend much bigger. Your storys of hospital trips makes me feel funny sometimes. I might sound like a "great hero", but not every jumper goes to hospital, if they skip one size when downsizing. These are only my thoughts. Check if you have some rules on sizes, and then ask yourself, what kinda canopy you want to jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #13 January 27, 2003 QuoteYour storys of hospital trips makes me feel funny sometimes. I might sound like a "great hero", but not every jumper goes to hospital, if they skip one size when downsizing. Or it could just be that your "Hospital Trip" is gonna happen next weekend. I really hope not, but if you fly a canopy that is above your skill level...the chances that you will mess up increase greatly. If you get a canopy that is larger than your ego, and really learn to fly it, before you step down. you greatly increase your chances of never going to the hospital. You can always jump something smaller if you live through the canopy you have now. Why downsize quickly....its not a race Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coconutmonkey 0 #14 January 27, 2003 Rule of thumb I run by is if you can land the canopy you have now in a 10m radius of your intended target 10 of 10 times and stand it up, you should be good to downsize. You don't want to get something you wouldn't feel comfortable landing off the DZ and possible in a yard (yeah, I know ultra-small canopies don't work well with this, but by the time you're ready to jump something like that, you'll know what you can do with one) JMHOHearts & Minds 2 to the Heart- 1 to the Mind- Home of the Coconut Lounge, Spa, & Artillery Range Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenetch 0 #15 January 28, 2003 Thank you very much for all you advice. Conclusion: I think i get a new sabre2 170, used sabre190 or used sabre2 190. I think i need training for use it. I'v looked in internet and i found trainning in Deland. what do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #16 January 28, 2003 Quote Thank you very much for all you advice. Conclusion: I think i get a new sabre2 170, used sabre190 or used sabre2 190. I think i need training for use it. I'v looked in internet and i found trainning in Deland. what do you think? Excellent choices. Just remember although your canopy may feel like a dog in Deland it is going to still be zippy at 4500ft. Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #17 January 28, 2003 >Why downsize quickly....its not a race That's not the point: I've posted about this before... If most instructors tell someone his choice of a canopy is a good one, very few will buy a bigger one just because they read about it on the 'Net. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenetch 0 #18 January 28, 2003 Hi My instructor told me i can buy a sabre2 150 becose i a conservative jumper and my DZ has a regular weather. I read about this canopy in PD and i found it isn't for me. I think i didn't undertand you. Could you be more specific? Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #19 January 28, 2003 The differences in downsizing-cultures of different countries(and on different DZs) vary a lot. The way people downsize here in Finland would be considered reckless on most DZs in the States(not that I've ever been there, based just on what I've read here on DZcom). My post was directed to Ron actually, who asked "why downsize quickly". My point is that people here don't think they're downsizing quickly. They think american jumpers downsize slowly. Yet I don't think we have significantly more landing accidents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #20 January 28, 2003 Also look at the numbers of jumpers in each area. Does Finland have 30000 active sport jumpers or is it only a few thousand? If its only a few thousand multily the injuries and accidents out to see what type numbers you would have if the jumping population was larger. I'm not sure the real numbers but I'm guessing if you add the total jumps made at Perris and SDC last year they might be close to the total number made in Finland all year.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mustard 0 #21 January 29, 2003 Please remember that the 170 is the much better choice with your number of jumps that then 150. You can get a smaller one later. But give yourself more leeway with the bigger canopy. I jumps at 4000, 5000, and 6500, I weigh 125 lbs with 3100 jumps and am very happy to have the extra canopy over my head when it's 90 degrees F outside with no wind. And remember the 170 will be very easy to resell when you are ready to downsize. OK? No 150 will take care of those times when you find yourself in a bad situation. The 170 will help with that!! *** DJan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #22 January 29, 2003 Quote If its only a few thousand(...) About 600 jumpers with a C or D-licence is the last figure I've heard... Year 2002 stats in Finland: 54605 jumps total 1 fatal incident(main/reserve entanglement) 22 reported landing related accidents happened to licensed (C/D) jumpers. Accidents are reported if the jumper requires medical attention, or if it's otherwise considered appropriate: hook turn 5 bad landing technique 10 low turn 1 no flare/flare late 6 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaaska 0 #23 January 29, 2003 Quote Rule of thumb I run by is if you can land the canopy you have now in a 10m radius of your intended target 10 of 10 times and stand it up, you should be good to downsize. You don't want to get something you wouldn't feel comfortable landing off the DZ and possible in a yard (yeah, I know ultra-small canopies don't work well with this, but by the time you're ready to jump something like that, you'll know what you can do with one) JMHO No means to kid aroundwith this subject, but I'll be damned if all the licenced jumpers can do that with their own canopies ever. Never jumped outside of Finland (still a smartass lowtime student jumper ), but hearing stories about the sizes of landing areas overseas and still reading about people (with jumps counted in hundreds) not getting there, time after time, or not being able to land standing - what should those people do? Get a bigger canopy (if the WL is already under 1 or something)? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #24 January 29, 2003 Quotewhat should those people do? Get a bigger canopy (if the WL is already under 1 or something)? Or maybe, just maybe, take a canopy class taught by an expert. Know what? Most people won't take the class. They don't want to spend the $$, they don't want to take the time, they can learn it on their own, etc. My problem was that I realized I was not a natural pilot, and prolly wasn't going to pick this up from watching people, or the odd tip or quick lesson from other jumpers. I needed video, and debrief on the canopy work alone...not after a rush of freefall and tagged on as a last note kind of thing. I went and got it. Hey, I'll still screw up - but I'll know what I did, instead of guessing; and I'll know how to correct it, instead of scratching my head and blaming the wind. It took me two bad landings (both times I should've broken something) before I came in and signed up for the class. And I downsized to the canopy I'm on during the class...and it was only one step down from the canopy I had been on. Take advantage of the canopy classes offered. Fly the hell out of the canopy; follow the BillVon steps to downsizing, and then get something smaller. The sky will wait. The ground won't. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #25 January 29, 2003 >but I'll be damned if all the licenced jumpers can do that with their own canopies ever. Then they should learn. Lack of that ability can kill someone, if they have to land off-DZ. I can make first contact in a target that size and stand up the landing with my 1.7 to 1 canopy, and I still need to get better at it - I can't _stop_ in a target that size consistently. >still reading about people (with jumps counted in hundreds) not > getting there, time after time, or not being able to land standing - > what should those people do? Get a bigger canopy (if the WL is > already under 1 or something)? Yes! If you can't even stand up the landing? Either get a canopy you can land or learn how to land the one you've got. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
