rehmwa 2 #51 June 17, 2013 billvonOoh, yuck. 2 way gets in position, gives a quick count and goes - and ends up right next to the previous 8-way who is going to track farther. If you want to stick someone in there, stick a larger group that will take 10-15 seconds to set up and go. That way they get separation, and you don't hose someone later by putting the larger group later where the spot is getting long. 1 - the scenario is that everyone continues to do correct exit separation timing. So you are off on a tangent just for the sake of disagreeing - again. 2 - your statement makes no sense - push the 2way to third in line, you just have the same problem with them too close to the 2nd 8way. Congrats - if you want to ignore my scenario as assume the 2way screws up their delay - instead of them threatening the 1st 8way, they just threatened the 2nd one instead. But it has ZERO to do with exit order, and everything to do with the 2way not taking a correct delay. 3 - your statement is even worse, because the 2nd 8way STILL takes the same amount of time to climb out whether they go 2nd or 3rd - and if they are 3rd, there is even MORE time between the two big groups is your whole comment about who gets hosed on the spot? QuoteWorks fine for separation, but not so good for the 2 way. One of the 'tricks' almost all jump pilots use is to turn the light on 15 seconds or so before the earliest possible spot knowing that door opening/checking/8 way climbout will take 15 seconds or so. You get a 2 way with no climbout time out first, they may not make it back upwind. Upthread we all already acknowledged that asking the pilot for an earlier spot is a good idea for bigger groups if they go out first - if you have something bigger than a 4 way, you tell the pilot for an early green light..... It's not a 'trick' at most places, it's just a good policy. It's an alternative. so what's your point? If the plan was a quick solo or 2way on green, why on earth would you call an early light for a 2way, especially if the whole point is for them do a quick exit on green? this comment is another total tangent. (As for early light JUST for looking and checking? I've never seen a pilot that had to cut it so very close, that they needed to factor in 15 seconds for a quick look - there's usually plenty of time between the first light and the climbout light...) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #52 June 17, 2013 billvon On the other hand, if the nude beach is just downwind of the DZ, the 2-way might appreciate it. Something every DZ should have.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #53 June 17, 2013 billvon On the other hand, if the nude beach is just downwind of the DZ, the 2-way might appreciate it. Just move the LZ to there. You may as well. You'll be picking up more jumpers there than at the DZ. Everybody likes beach jumps, right? Boobie Beach Boogie ...sounds god to me.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #54 June 17, 2013 popsjumper*** On the other hand, if the nude beach is just downwind of the DZ, the 2-way might appreciate it. Just move the LZ to there. You may as well. You'll be picking up more jumpers there than at the DZ. "Green light, GO GO GO GO GO, GET OUT< GOGOGOGOGO" "just a second, just a little farther....." (Unless it's a retirement beach) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #55 June 17, 2013 >1 - the scenario is that everyone continues to do correct exit separation timing. One of the reason we choose exit order is to help ensure correct exit separation timing. Saying "well, we'll just make sure everyone does the correct exit separation no matter what we do with exit separation" is foolish. You could put freeflyers out first as long as RW groups give them enough separation, for example; but experience has shown that that is a very bad idea. >your statement makes no sense - push the 2way to third in line, you just have the >same problem with them too close to the 2nd 8way. Assuming the second group is an 8 way, yes. If it's a 4 way the exit separations get pushed a lot closer to ideal. >is your whole comment about who gets hosed on the spot? No. > so what's your point? That if the pilot is changing his timing for each load odds of a screwup go up significantly. Again, not an issue if there are lots of great areas to land out. That, however, is not always the case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #56 June 18, 2013 billvon>One of the reason we choose exit order is to help ensure correct exit separation timing. that makes no sense - your 2 way is going to count correctly if put in the back? Is there some affect from the engines you are hypothesizing? Quote Saying "well, we'll just make sure everyone does the correct exit separation no matter what we do with exit separation" is foolish. this is your strawman, not mine. I already pointed out your dramatic divergence from the topic. QuoteYou could put freeflyers out first as long as RW groups give them enough separation, for example; but experience has shown that that is a very bad idea. where the hell did this come from - we're talking about order WITHIN common fall rate groups - another strawman - when did you stop beating your wife, Billvon? you don't even try to stay on topic anymore. This was clearly noted again and again and again. QuoteAssuming the second group is an 8 way, yes. two big groups and a small group was the example - which thread are you on? QuoteThat if the pilot is changing his timing for each load odds of a screwup go up significantly. the only change discussed in the whole thread was letting the pilot know when you have a big climbout for the first group if you want to put them out first - I don't know what the hell you are talking about here. Let alone why you mention areas to land out. Another moot point. What value is this if you just throw out strawmen and tangents over and over again? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #57 June 19, 2013 Looking at the poll it appears that near half of the respondents do not understand or do not agree with the effects of winds on freefalling formations.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
