main/reserve entanglement

[meerkatt 0]

7 th December,a tandem camera jump, my 5th of the day. Uneventful freefall, pitched @ around 3500 feet, nothing. I believe my pc was trapped in my burble. Couldnt see it or feel it or find my bridle. Cut away and maybe 1 1/2 seconds delay then deploy reserve. Nice quick,soft reserve opening. I try to remove it,but it is wrapped pretty good & catching a bit of air. I focus on keeping it as far down the risers as I can. At about 800 feet the main catches a chunk of air & twists up ,squeezing the risers together & putting me into a spiral,horisontal to the ground. I have full toggle control on the left so am able to pull out and regain level flight at about 200feet. To fly straight I am in about 2/3 brakes. I aim for a green patch (the terrain being mostly large rocks!) and get a small amount of flare as I PLF. No injuries, no damage to cameras or canopys.
I believe that the attitude change effected by carrying out emergency proceedures(ie: hands in tilting me slightly head down) allowed my pc to escape my burble, deploying my main as my reseve fired.
The only thing I would do differently is maybe try to get the main in front of me & down my jumpsuit.

Its good to be alive.

[Mindcake 0]

Glad to hear you are ok, was your pc collapsable?



Jim

Don´t belive the hype

[PhreeZone 20]

Did you look over your shoulder to try and spill air or anything like that?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[mouth 0]

What were you jumping? Was anything different about your equipment...main....rig....gloves?

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[meerkatt 0]

Yes I tried to get air to the pc, looking over both shoulders & up. Yes it was a kill line pc & yes it was cocked(I check this 3 times in every pack job & again before putting on the rig).The container is a Talon 2.

[ifallout 0]

Glad to hear you are ok.

do you think that you just didn't pitch well enough on the intitial deployment? We had a student do that at our DZ and he just basically pulled the pilot chute out and let go instead of tossing it out and it went straight into his burble and stopped.

Good thinking and flying all the way to the ground.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[JeffGordon 0]

Did you get video?

Quote

then I see my main over my right shoulder ,wrapped around the reserve risers, below the slide

Can you see how the main was wrapped around the reserve risers?

Quote

I believe my pc was trapped in my burble. Couldnt see it or feel it or find my bridle.

Do you have a kill line pc?

If the pin is extracted, but not enough drag to pull the three rings away from the harness could that cause this type of mal?

[meerkatt 0]

Yeah, the whole thing is on vid,but because I wear a left side mount its not as detailed as it could be.
When we pulled the mess apart we found the initial piont of entanglement was main riser to reserve riser... when I chopped the main riser must have popped the tuck flap & been flapping in the breeze looking for something to wrap.

[hookitt 1]

There is one thing about bridle routing on a Talon and a few other rigs out there. It is pretty easy to push the bridle up to far under the side flap. It is then possible to catch the stiffener on the bottom flap. I learned this when the new style talon first came out and would tow the pilot chute for several seconds. This is only a possibility and am in no way saying that was the cause. Several reserve rides have occured because of catching the bridle over that bottom flap stiffener.

I'm happy you made it in one piece.

C-ya

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[hookitt 1]

I forgot to mention this. When the reserve comes out of the reserve tray, there is no longer any presssure on the divider wall between the Main and reserve compartment. That will easily allow the main pin to pop out with minimal force allowing the main to deploy.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[jerm 0]

one of the aruguments for NOT cutting away a pc-in-tow.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[jurgencamps 0]

The argument to cut away.

[Sinkster 0]

I think the argument is to not cutaway. The reason is that the military did a ton of tests concering two canopy out situations and concluded that not cutting away (unless downplane or clear situation) was the most survivable strategy.

Therefore, if you cutaway and then the main comes out partway (which it probably will to provide enough force to detatch the risers on many rigs), it can still entangle with your reserve and then since you already cutaway there is nothing you can do and the entanglement is worse.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I think the argument is to not cutaway. The reason is that the military did a ton of tests concering two canopy out situations and concluded that not cutting away (unless downplane or clear situation) was the most survivable strategy.

http://www.pia.com/piapubs/dualsq.pdf.pdf

This is the link to the 2 canopy out study. They did a total of 31 jumps. 10 by the military and 21 by Scott Miller, all using large-ish canopies. The study was intended for student training guidelines, not for experienced jumpers under small canopies. They even mention that for a complete study smaller canopy combintaions and different sized canopies need to be tested.

I have experiemented (and have plans for more jumps soon) with two canopies out and the biggest lesson I learned is that you cannot predict how 2 canopies will interact together. I don't think there is a "one size fits all" solution for 2 canopies out and that makes it a dangerous situation. (i.e. what should I do if my VX-60 and MR-109-M are out together?, what should I do if my Safire 189 and Fury 220R are out together?) One combiation that I thought would fly fine together didn't and another combinatin that I thought would entangle, didn't.

Hook

[skreamer 1]

Were you wearing a camerasuit or freeflysuit when filming this tandem?

Have you ever had problems with pilot chute hesitation before? What size is your PC and how many jumps has it done?

Will

[meerkatt 0]

Freefly suit. Never had pc problems before, 20" zp with +/- 500 jumps, still in good condition. Just one of those things...

[freebird 0]

Kill line? Is that the same as throw out but a different name? Forgive me for not knowing this.

Were you belly to earth first deployment with the main?

[parachutist 2]

Quote

Kill line? Is that the same as throw out but a different name?

No. A kill line PC is one type of collapsible PC, and it is the most common type of collpasible PC.

At your experience level there is a good chance that you do not have a collapsible pilot chute on your rig and so it is not surprising that you don't know what it is yet. One of these days you'll probbaly have one attached to your canopy because a collapsible PC will increase the performance of a canopy (The collapsible PC folds up after the canopy inflates... thereby reducing the drag on the canopy.).

The kill line PC adds one more step to packing procedure (You must 'cock' it every time you pack... otherwise it will not work). And this is one major reason why it's good for low-time jumpers too use standard PC's instead of collapsible PC's... a standard PC is one less complication and one less possible malfunction in your skydive.

If you ask a packer at your DZ, I'm sure you can get a quick hands-on introduction to a kill-line PC so you can see what it does.

Chris

[freebird 0]

that you do not have a collapsible pilot chute on your rig and so it is not surprising that you don't know what it is yet. One of these days you'll probbaly have one attached to your canopy because a collapsible PC will increase the performance of a canopy (The collapsible PC folds up after the canopy inflates... thereby reducing the drag on the canopy.).


I have been using a collaspeable pilot chute since I was a student and I have one that came with my Javelin.
I have not heard the word kill line much. Thats all.

[meerkatt 0]

Yes, I was flat & stable when I pitched... maybe if I was in a light track or backsliding the pc would have been dragged out of the burble.... maybe not.

[parachutist 2]

I have been using a collaspeable pilot chute since I was a student and I have one that came with my Javelin.
I have not heard the word kill line much. Thats all.

Ok cool. Yeah the kill line is just the line that goes up though the bridle. I didn't have a collapsible til around 200 jumps, so I was assuming (doh.. sorry) =]

Chris

[Faber 0]

Quote

The argument to cut away.

Quote

I agree.ALLWAYS make the FULL procedure..

I onse had a simalar,but we found out that the pc had made a knot in my bouble,and in that way never inflated.Icutted it and pulled the reserve.In the same time the reserve came,the main went out aswell,but still atatced to my hardness.i used the Frence Atom risers=make a 180 on your 3ring so they og inside instead They will work okay long as there are a pull from the canopi(as you cut),but if not,it lock itself...I maneged to hook(yes took the frontriser of my sabre 120 and hooked it)and then bank on the 3 ring in that way i made a cut while my reserve were out whith out entanglement..

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

• Quote

Share this post

---

Link to post

Share on other sites