multichecking

[Iezyka 0]

I´ve read a lot of "I check all handles about 47 million times "-posts in this forum.
It scares me everytime.

When I see people in the airplane who check their things over and over again I get nervous. If this person doesn´t trust himself enough to do simple checks, how could I trust him in the air when he might have to make difficult decisions?

The one thing that makes skydiving different then most other sports is that you have to be sure about what you´re doing.

Find out what you want to check, how, why, and when to do it.
Do it, once, carefully, put some thoughts into it.

Is my chest strap correctly attached?
a) no - well fix it, or ask someone to fix it. check again.
b)Don´t know. - ask someone. understand and learn how to do it or ask someone else to help you.
c)yes - fine. You have no doubts. Check is fished. Start with the next check.

Realize how little it take to be absolutely sure.
Concentrate on what to do on your cool jump instead of wasting all your energie on worthless multichecking.

/Jessica

[skycat 0]

hmmm....I'd rather be on a plane with some one who checks their handles and pins, rather than with some one who only checks them once.

Moving around in the plane causes handles to get dislodged, flaps to be opened, pins to get worked loose. Straps can also come loose, or require adjustment. I've seen someone walk to the door of the plane with her reserve handle tucked under her main lift webbing, which happened when she leaned over to do a practice count. I've seen d-bags come out of containers on the plane when pins were dislodged from brushing against the side of the plane. I can't count the number of pilot chutes I've seen half way out the BOC and fixed for the jumper.

So you know what I'll continue to check my gear multiple times on the way to altitude, and I'll continue to tell students the same thing. If that scares you to jump with me, then don't get on the plane.

Fly it like you stole it!

[Kris 0]

Actually, people that fail to check their handles, or only do so a couple of times are the ones that usually scare me.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with performing multiple checks and lives have been saved because of it.

And it has nothing to do with experience, either. I was once asked to give a second gear-check by a very experienced (about 3000 jumps) jumper on his rig. Everything was cool until I yanked on his chest-strap and it came un-done from being mis-routed. This was after he had checked it himself.

Since I recently put a new PC with hackey on my rig (for use with a Bird-Man suit, I used to have a FF pud) I probably check my hackey 10-15 times on the climb to altitude because I want to make sure that it doesn't get disloged from moving in the plane or snagging on something before exit.

And yes, I touch all 3 handles in order on gear-up, before getting in the plane, and before jump-run. A little reinforcing of muscle memory can only help. I can grab my handles blind-folded 10 times out of 10, can you? I'm also that really annoying guy that gives his chest-strap and 3-rings another once-over right before exit. Yup, I'm a bane to society at large.
I also make sure that I train my students to constantly check their handles. It would really be bad if a student were to realize during a malfunction that their cutaway or reserve handles were folded under when they needed them or that a handle had been pulled pre-maturely because it was out of the pouch.

The airplane is a really busy place, especially so during jump-run and it never hurts to constantly check to make sure that everything is in place before exiting the plane.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[dex 0]

I look over my gear at least twice per plane ride.. "multichecking" only seems pointless to me if it is mindless... if your actually looking at your gear each time you're not hurting anything.... I'd much rather make you nervous then kill you with a premature in your face.

I also practice my emergency procedures once or twice..

[Casch 0]

I (respectfully) completely disagree. I do multiple checks on every jump. I don't do it because I'm unsure of my gear or what-have-you, but to make sure nothing has changed.

Say for example you bump your rig on the door when getting in, what if you opened a tuck tab? Or what if when cramming yourself like a sardine, onto the bench or the small corners of the plane, you catch a handle and your P/C is partially showing, or your cutaway/reserve handle is pulled out of place slightly?

There have been several unnecessary incidents indirectly caused by not checking handles enough. A friend of mine could have had a reserve pop on the step because he failed to check/notice that his reserve handle came loose.

Yes, in this sport you need to be sure of your equipment and yourself. But it NEVER hurt anyone to double check.

[Casch 0]

wow, a lot of reply's while I was typing...

[Dumpster 0]

Multiple handle checks serve several purposes - Mostly I use it to help reinforce muscle memory, I rehearse emegency procedures several times when I don my gear, before boarding, and a couple times before exit - Pin checks are always welcome, too, especially if there has been alot of squirming and jockying for posistion on the ride to altitude. I'll be seen checking my main handle just before exit, too.

I think it also sets a good example for students, too. It set a good example for me, and so I pass it on.

Easy Does It

[CrazyIvan 0]

I check my handles all the way to altitude, when I'm by the door, and when I deploy (after checking the canopy open) I keep my brakes stowed, look at my handles, grab them and then continue.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[skybytch 273]

If there has been any opportunity for something to change on my gear since the last time I checked it, yes, I'm going to check it again. If I've got nothing else to do while waiting for the door to open on jump run, I'll probably check it all again. If my doing that makes you not want to jump with me then I guess my signature will never appear in your logbook.

I'd rather check my gear "47 million times" and have a perfect safe skydive than be "cool" by only checking it once on the ground and have that be the time that something is screwed up. Gear checks are free. Repacks, ambulance rides, hospital visits and funerals are expensive.

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

I'd rather check my gear "47 million times" and have a perfect safe skydive than be "cool"

Yup, I'd rather be 'goofy' and alive than 'cool' and dead.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[slotperfect 7]

Personally, I check my equipment after receiving a pin check, touching my handle only once (sometimes my BOC hacky handle once more before I climbout). That is my routine.

Doing tandems, I check all my handles after I get a gear check in the mockup area, in the aircraft after I hook up my student & tighten the side straps and stow the excess, and after exiting and deploying the drogue.

I personally do not question others' routines, rather I take comfort in the fact that they actually have a routine they stick to. An example of this is the well-known highly experienced former world champion skydiver I know with 12,000+ jumps that practices his EP's in the aircraft on every jump.

My choice is to encourage people to have a routine, and show them mine in case it might just work for them. I do agree that being deliberate and specific in a routine is best, not necessarily multiple repetitions.

Arrive Safely

John

[rendezvous 0]

Well I don't really multicheck like a million times but I do check different aspects of the gear a different number of times. I do a check of all the handles and the straps once whenever one is preparing themselves. I check all the handles once again at the 2 min call and then I check the pilot chute a couple of times while we are moving towards the exit and thats because it can unknowingly snag and be out after I did the last check. Whenver there's too much movement in the plane I check the handles again just to make sure nothing got pulled inadvertently. So I guess I don't do a million checks but I definitely do a couple of checks specially on the PC since I can't see it and like to know that it's in there when I'm about to take my position on the exit.

[Iezyka 0]

What scares me is when checking become a mindless routine, done over and over again with poor quality, creating an illusion of safety.

Has no one else seen seen this happen, during packing, in the airplane or anywhere else?

/Jessica

[CrazyIvan 0]

Quote

What scares me is when checking become a mindless routine, done over and over again with poor quality, creating an illusion of safety.

If this ever happen to you, you better CHECK YOURSELF first.

Clear your mind and let the Force flow thru you.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Quote

If my doing that makes you not want to jump with me then I guess my signature will never appear in your logbook

Amen! And ditto. My routine has always been when they call up for tandems is check gear, review emergency procedures, envision diveflow, check gear, review emergency procedure, envision diveflow, until they call door, then one more review and check, look down to make sure we're in the right county, and off to the races - from the time of 'up for tandems' to exit, my 'multi-check' has gone through 5 or 6 repetitions. What one might see as 'mindless' may be in fact a concious decision tree. As Lisa so accurately phrased it, "Gear checks are free.", I would agree wholeheartedly.

[f1freak 0]

It's kinda like driving, i might look in the mirror when i go to change lanes, but more than one time i have simply not noticed a car next to me untill i look one more time. i will catch myself going through the motions, and not really seeing everything i should...

HAVE FUN...
...JUST DONT DIE

[RichM 0]

Quote

What scares me is when checking become a mindless routine, done over and over again with poor quality, creating an illusion of safety.

Has no one else seen seen this happen, during packing, in the airplane or anywhere else?

/Jessica

Repeated checking of equipment reinforces the memory, both visual and spatial. Anything out of place will be much more and immediately apparent to a multiple checker than a one time only person imho. I have a routine that involves at least 2 sometimes 3 checks before exit, and more if the situation demands such as unexpected movement around the plane that may dislodge pins and handles. I think it is good practise and encourage it.

Rich M

[dex 0]

Quote

What scares me is when checking become a mindless routine, done over and over again with poor quality, creating an illusion of safety.

Has no one else seen seen this happen, during packing, in the airplane or anywhere else?

It's happened to me... every once and awhile I catch myself cheating on an emergency review.. sure I touch each handle and make some sort of funny patti cake to invisible man motion to pull my cutaway and reserve out but I might not of really visualized what I was doing. bad skydiver go back to start....

If I catch myself I make sure I do a real visualization imagining throwing out seeing a ball of shit or a nasty spinner feeling the handles and executing... and hey staring at my 3rings or playing with my handles is something to do on the way up....

[Iezyka 0]

I´ve seen some very intelligent posts in this thread which I fully agree with.

I want to clear one thing out about. Somehow I failed to explain that I meant "check your handles carefully". It turned in to something like "be cool and don´t check your gear", which wasn´t my intention since this is something I fully disagree with. I really hope my post doesn´t encourage that behaviour, but if it do so, it is my wish to have this thread removed from this forum.

The word multichecking is just something I made up, and in my definition that is mindless and planless checking of your gear, a lack of routine. And what most of you have explained to me are the opposite- your routines, which you have designed by thinking carefully about what your doing. And that is nothing I meant to critizise. I apologize if I offended anyone.

If I explained my thoughts in such a bad way that you misunderstood me, I´m sorry for that.

But if you really do disagree with me, I´d be more than glad if you would like to help me out by a more serious discussion. My opinions are based on my experiences and conclusions. If you got the time to send me a PM to share some of your experiences, please do so. It would probably help me to make better conclusions and choices, and I´m always open for that.

And yes, I´ll be more careful about what I write next time.
/Jessica

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Seems to be confusion over choice of wording. Some of us tend to be picky with semantics when it comes to S&T stuff - no harm, no foul - looks like we're all on the same page.
Me thinks it would be gettin' kind of late in yer neck of the woods - Oh how does that expression go, God natt, dröm sött.

[billvon 2,998]

>and in my definition that is mindless and planless checking of your
>gear, a lack of routine.

I think the only time that's a problem is when you're not sure what you're checking for, or you're really messing with your gear as you do that.

There are times when "overchecking" gear can be a problem - opening your main pin flap 3 times in the aircraft, for example, whether the jumper or a third party does it. That, I think, may actually cause more problems than it solves, since the manipulation of the pin and cover (and the greater time the pin spends unprotected) can cause a problem.

There are other times when I've seen people do sorta inappropriate checks. One guy I knew spun his rings about ten times on the way to altitude because someone told him it was a good idea. Another was someone who always unmated and remated the velcro on his cutaway handle. That can prematurely wear the velcro, cause a floating handle, or even lead to an improperly stowed handle. A third was a guy who unthreaded and rethreaded his chest strap before jump run. I always thought that was asking for trouble, in case of a sudden bailout or an interrupted check.

I also once saw someone who was jumping a racer for the first (or second) time take his rig off in the plane so someone could check his reserve pins. I thought that was a really bad idea.

Personally, I try to keep my in-plane gear checks to a minimum. To do that I do one on the ground, then one complete one at the one-minute mark, then a quick handles check before I get out. I like that I have a reflex and thus am pretty assured that the reserve pin hasn't been messed with. 90% of the time I can do a complete gear check myself, feeling the main pin under the cover and checking everything by touch.

[Dumpster 0]

***I also once saw someone who was jumping a racer for the first (or second) time take his rig off in the plane so someone could check his reserve pins. I thought that was a really bad idea.

Yikes!! And you really can't get much better reserve pin protection than a Racer, either! Now if the main pin was more freefly friendly, that would be great!

Easy Does It

[Cepheus 0]

Quote

It's kinda like driving, i might look in the mirror when i go to change lanes, but more than one time i have simply not noticed a car next to me untill i look one more time. i will catch myself going through the motions, and not really seeing everything i should...

The downside to muscle memory.

--
Skydive -- testing gravity, one jump at a time.

[riggerrob 643]

I am with billvon on this issue.
Mindless routines are annoying.
Let's try to develop a system here.
For example, I am fussy about gear on PFF students, but only check their gear three times. These three checks are done when gear is most likely to get messed up.
In brief, (and please don't flame me because I am being brief) PFF gear checks are done: after gear up, before boarding and 4 minutes before exit.
The check at gear up is mainly to ensure that the parachute was packed properly and they brought enough goggles, altimeters, gloves, etc.
The second check is done after the last practice at the airplane/mockup. This check is designed to catch anything that got knocked loose during rehearsals.
The final check is done about 4 minutes before exit (once everyone is finished fumbling and faced towards the door) this last check ensures that they donned goggles, etc. and catches anything knocked loose while moving around in the airplane. After the last check, students are encouraged to do a 3 of 3s check to calm their own minds.
Then we sit quietly, focussed on breathing until the door opens. This quiet time is important to help them focus on freefall tasks.
Any more than three gear checks is annoying.

[Michele 1]

(this is not directed at anyone in specific)...

I have 46 jumps.

I touch the handles in the plane...a lot.

Someday, maybe I won't touch them as much. Til then, I will (sadly) continue to annoy those who have nothing better to do than to watch me touch my handles. It's not mindless. But maybe you wouldn't realize that. I will always make sure everything is where I left it when I got onto the plane...and that the straps are as tight as when I left the ground.

And yes, I have been known to check where they are in freefall, as well as the remaining two are while I'm under canopy.

I see no harm in it. I'm sorry if you find my checking for my handles annoying. I don't.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~