Preapring for Cold Weather Jump

[lawrocket 3]

I plan on jumping tomorrow, and my understanding is that the temperature at altitude has been below zero. Being a California guy, I don't know much about this.

I'm a bit nervous about wearing gloves or other things that can get in the way or snag. Mainly because I've never done it.

What should I bring with me? And can I expect different canopy performance? I value your input.



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My wife is hotter than your wife.

[ladyskydiver 0]

Long underwear, turtle neck, sweater, gloves with liners (I use neoprene gloves), hand warmers, and if you have a full-face helmet, you will be really glad.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[CrazyIvan 0]

Dude, as long as you have EVERY INCH OF SKIN covered you'll be fine.

If you have a full-face helmet don't get nervous if it fogs or you see ice building up on the edge (that's why I have an open face, wear goggles and a balaclava), also, good gloves are a must.

ENJOY THE JUMP MAN!!!

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[cobaltdan 0]

if you are going to use thin gloves put on latex rubber gloves underneath. even if they are thick do it anyway, you will not be sorry.

there is nothing worse than freezing your hands solid in freefal. it makes it difficult to get your fingers in your toggles, it is very creapy and scary to be banging your hands lifelessly against your helmet trying to make them move... and when they thaw you will be seeing stars it hurts so much.

use rubber on your hands !

also note that full face helmets can frost up imparing sight. make sure you can flip your lens up.

have fun...

sincerely,

dan<><>

Daniel Preston <><>
atairaerodynamics.com (sport)
atairaerospace.com (military)

[skyboyblue 0]

dude get a definite feel for your handles before you leave the ground on with your gloves ON!!! because you can't rely so much on the feel of a pud in your hand with gloves. It will feel different and you should practice practice practice where and how different it is with gloves on. all three handles too....good luck

[Shark 0]

Quote

I plan on jumping tomorrow, and my understanding is that the temperature at altitude has been below zero. Being a California guy, I don't know much about this.

I'm a bit nervous about wearing gloves or other things that can get in the way or snag. Mainly because I've never done it.

What should I bring with me? And can I expect different canopy performance? I value your input.

-

Don't go all the way up to altitude. Anyway, wearing gloves shouldn't be a problem. Just put the rig on and touch all the handles and get the feel of them. Wear a turtleneck and some sweats under your jumpsuit. If you are going to use the student gear at Elsinore, I suggest you get a balaclava type hood to keep your head warm under the Pro-tec helmet. They also sell these neck gators in Ground Zero, too. And as always, get a gear check from me or one of the other instructors.

[pilotdave 0]

In my very limited experience I've noticed the freefall isn't too bad. It's the canopy ride when you really feel the cold. My hands were really the only part of me that were really affected by the cold when I jumped at Cross Keys' freezefest last winter. Pulling was no problem. Hands didn't get really cold till I was under canopy. Having your hands over your head decreases their blood flow so they get cold. I wear football reciever gloves with a pair of knitted stretchy gloves underneath. I wouldn't be comfortable with thick winter gloves. Also, if you wear a full face, get ready for it to fog up on opening. I just open my Z1 a crack just after opening and its fine.

Dave

[flyangel2 2]

What they all said. Don't have your gloves too thick, and practice on the ground first. As for a neck gator, don't do it, I've seem some of them fly up into the face of the person wearing it.
Oh one more thing about keeping the hands warm. Try not to put your gloves on in the airplane during the ride up. Your hands tend to get too warm and then sweat, so now you leave the plane, and your hands turn to ice. The hot hand pads work great. Put them on the back of your hand. The blood flow is better and if the pad is in the palm, it causes too much bulk.
I tend to not jump during the winter too much unless it's in Florida or Calif. Being from Colorado going to those places in the winter feels like the tropic to me.
Be safe and have fun.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[dex 0]

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I'm a bit nervous about wearing gloves or other things that can get in the way or snag. Mainly because I've never done it.

I'd wear gloves that let you still FEEL the handles.. Personally I would *not* jump without gloves in that cold... If you are doing the rubber glove under the neoprene glove idea DON'T put on the rubbers until you are close to jump run...

as an aside when flying in an otter at those temps I can't help but feel like I am in a big meat freezer...

With my fullface and my extra clothes under my jumpsuit the cold doesn't bother me during the plane ride or during freefall. After I am under canopy and my body starts to realize it was just in 44 below of windchill... and my fingers start telling me what a meathead I just was to jump in the cold.

The thing that I really hate about cold jumps is warming up to pack it takes forever for me to warm up...

Bring chapstick... and maybe a gear bag to stuff your gear in so ya don't have to pack until you get to a warm place...

I didn't notice any different canopy performance from the cold but then again it did get colder gradually as I was jumping ;) Jumping over snow can freak with your depth perception...

be careful picking up your canopy and packing it after it lands in snow... easy to trap moisture by scooping snow into end cells that you might not remove for half a season.....


have fun

[Unutsch 0]

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because you can't rely so much on the feel of a pud in your hand with gloves. It will feel different and you should practice practice practice where and how different it is with gloves on. all three handles too....good luck

couldn't agree more!!

and it aint's such a big deal, i'm pretty used to skydiving in sub-zero conditions (the lowest i jumped at was -19 C° at 3.500m and -4 C° on the ground)... just as long as you are dressed warm enough (but not too much:you should move freely, without any tightness due to too many layers of clothing) and run to the pub every 2 jumps for a cup of boiling tea

Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation:
http://www.padliangeli.org

[riggerrob 643]

flyangel and I disagree on the issue of neck gators.
I believe neck coverage is worth its weight in gold during winter jumps and I always wear a neck gator during winter jumps.
The mistake that most people make is to spend huge amounts of money on fancy gloves, but jump bare-headed or bare-necked.
If your head is un-covered, heat will escape so fast there will be no warm blood left to warm your fingers.
Dressing for winter jumps is a two-phase process. First of all you have to keep your body core warm. The best way to keep your body core warm is to add one or two more light layers of clothing under your regular jumpsuit. Light weight long underwear and turtlenecks provide excellent insulation without limiting mobility. If you are worried about overheating, then leave your neck and head uncovered until the plane is halfway to altitude, then zip up your high collar, don your neck gator and pull on your helmet. If you are worried about your neck gator blowing up then catch a few inches of it under your chin strap.
If you have done the preceding steps properly, them all you need on your hands is something to cut the wind. If it is your first winter jump, (especially if you are a SoCal wuss) then limit gloves to lightweight leather or neoprene gloves. It is important to wear gloves that have leather or tackified palms to help you grip your handles. Later on you can add lightweight wool liners. Remember that pulling handles is the most important part of any freefall jump.
Oh and I have to laugh at Southern Californians grumbling about the cold when it gets close to freezing. Contemplate wearing 5 pairs of pants and 7 shirts and hiding behind your tandem student so it only feels like a minus 30 ice pick (plus wind chill factor) has been driven into your forehead, right between your eyebrows!

[eWave 0]

Well, about that cold temperature on exit altitude...

I jump at Finland and on last jump I made, temperature on ground was something like -17 degrees Celcius, guess what it is on exit altitude? Yes, it's cold. (2000 meters)

I use 2 pants and 3 shirts under my jumpsuit, wear two gloves (top ones are WindStopper) with no problems on handles. Actually I could wear even more clothes, with no problems. With those clothes I'm enough warm, and enjoy jumping
If you jump at California, I can't even imagine as cold temperature there as what we have here. So if we can survive, so can you Maybe we fins are little grazy ones

[flyangel2 2]

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flyangel and I disagree on the issue of neck gators.
I believe neck coverage is worth its weight in gold during winter jumps and I always wear a neck gator during winter jumps.
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In my experience a turtle neck works just as well, and I don't have to worry about the gator flying up into my face.

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The mistake that most people make is to spend huge amounts of money on fancy gloves, but jump bare-headed or bare-necked.
If your head is un-covered, heat will escape so fast there will be no warm blood left to warm your fingers.
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I agree with you on that. Heat escapes from the head. That's why I wear a stocking hat in the plane and then put it in my jumpsuit before putting my helmet on, I stay warmer. I have a factory diver, so it's hard to wear the stocking cap under that.
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Light weight long underwear and turtlenecks provide excellent insulation without limiting mobility.
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How true, now a days there are so many different kinds of long underwear. But I suggest staying away from the 100% cotton, they really don't do much for keeping you warm and "whipping" the sweat away
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If you are worried about overheating, then leave your neck and head uncovered until the plane is halfway to altitude, then zip up your high collar, don your neck gator and pull on your helmet. If you are worried about your neck gator blowing up then catch a few inches of it under your chin strap.

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It's hard to catch the gator under a factory diver. No chin strap
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If you have done the preceding steps properly, them all you need on your hands is something to cut the wind.
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Some people's hands, like me, tend to get cold no matter what I do I guess it's a girly thing. (Cold hands, no heart)
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Remember that pulling handles is the most important part of any freefall jump.
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Oh yes, we agree on that. But if the hands are cold, and numb, you can't feel the handles.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[CrazyIvan 0]

As I mentioned before, the BEST insulation, in my opinion is a FULL FACE BALACLAVA, they also cover your neck, and if you are wearing a turtle neck, you are set.

The best gloves and balaclavas are the military type, trust me, I have them.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[trmnljnky 0]

I have jumped at -10f at alti. before never again. A full face helmet would not be good with a face shield, unless you have a good defroster installed.

Byron

[ladyskydiver 0]

I've jumped at -18F at altitude with a full face helmet . You just don't put the helmet on until the door opens. Then put it on and out you go. Helmet was fine - no frost or anything.

I've jumped at -12F at altitude and didn't end up with frost until I was at 3000 - and everyone that had a helmet on ended up with a little frost that time. We're guessing we hit a warm patch at that altitude.

So...I'll always want a full-face helmet when it's that cold. Just when I get the extra cash - I'll buy a helmet that the face shield comes up.

Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile.

[Dumpster 0]

I've jumped on some of those extra-frosty days also-
Put the helmet on for take-off, visor open (if possible- I have a Z-1) then take it off so I don't fill it with sweat on the way up- When I put it back on, I'll leave it open until just before exit- Again to prevent moisture build-up. Sometimes I'll get some fog under canopy, so I just flip it open a bit. I got in the habit of opening it under canopy during the summer months, mostly for comfort.

Easy Does It

[flyangel2 2]

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Just when I get the extra cash - I'll buy a helmet that the face shield comes up.

I have one and I love it. I even have to lift the shield up after I know I have a good canopy. There is something about the lens that throws off my depth perception

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[Iezyka 0]

You read my mind, I was going to ask this question as well to hear how you guys out there handle the cold and get some good advise.

I enjoy jumping in the winter too! But I wouldn´t jump if it´s colder than 25 degrees celsius.
Except for some things that have already been written, there´s a couple of things I think about when I go to the dropzone in the winter.
I´m no instructor though, these things are only my experiences.

Landings in snow are great! And in the end of the day one could see who made the longest swoop, who made the biggest hole, and it´s easy to make sport precision competitions for fun. The snow is the judge!
One time I found the landing really scary though. The sun was shining in such a way that that the snow reflected it as a mirror. It made it very difficult to see the ground and I´m glad I didn´t hurt myself. I would think twice before jumping if I see that the snow is reflecting the sun very much.

I want to be warm…

…in the airplane
Sometimes my hands get real cold in the airplane if there´s no heat. It´s terrible to open the door when I´m already frozen. To avoid that I like to have a pair of real big gloves waiting for me in the airplane, to make me warm on the way up if I need to.
I like to bring warm friends too, so I can hug them. No waste of energi

…in the air
I choose not to wear a helmet with visor. I prefer a open-face helmet for winter jumps. Still I´ll make sure I protect my cheeks, my nose and my forehead. And if it´s really cold I might want something on my head and ears, since the helmet sometimes fail to stop the air from coming in.. There are many different kinds of things to protect the face. I think depends on helmet model and taste when it comes to what is most safe and comfortable

…on the ground
Warm clothes while waiting for the next load =)

Sometimes my shoes, my socks and then also my feet get wet from walking in the snow. Or sometimes, even if it´s pretty cold, there could be water under the thick snow- a small hidden lake as cold as ice. Extra socks and shoes is rather nice to have if this happens and I want to do some more jumps.
It´s nice to know how the dz looks without snow…the snow could be hiding something I don´t want to land on.

I´d like to make sure some areas on my rig is not wet when I go up in cold air. Sometimes it has been moist in the air, or snow which has melted when I have taken my rig into the packing area, so I do some extra checks on my rig before packing. I don´t know the actual risk, but for example want metal on the leg and chest straps to be dry. And I just don´t want to worry about the three-ring-system being wet in –20 celsius in 250 km/h, and maybe frozen to ice when I want to cut away.

[petur 0]

The one with the visor on the full face helmets is a good one. Read this cutaway report which relates to that matter.

Here's what comes to my mind:

Gloves: Not too thick! You must be able to feel your handles! Also keep in mind that the surface in the palms of some gloves, Neumann for example, stiffenes up and becomes slippery in cold conditions. Get a good firm grip and pull...

Clothes: There's no need to put on layers after layers of clothing, that will limit your ability to move freely but keep in mind that it can get cold during flight to altitude so use common sense. For best results the outer layer should be wind-resistant as the wind chill is your worst enemy. Your neck, wrists and ankles may become vulnerable to cold during flight under canopy... and lips are prone to dry.

Audibles: The batteries are quite sensitive to rapid temperature changes. I've experienced this during flight to altitude when my dytter complained of low battery level although they were relatively new. Keep a close eye (or ear) on your dytter during flight.

Altimeters: I've experienced hesitation in my Alti III in cold conditions. So if it feels low, it is low... Don't take any chances!

Exit: Anything you step on or hold on to during climb-out might be extremely slippery.

Clouds: If it's cold enough... they hurt really bad...

Landing: If your landing area is covered by snow your altitude awareness is greatly reduced. Spend some time placing markers in the snow if there aren't any... you won't regret it... unless you like surprises!

Packing: Your gearbag will be your best friend since your fingers probably won't be.

"Wind Chill" and other weather calculators here

Petur - Iceland

---
P.
"It Hurts to Admit When You Make Mistakes -
But When They're Big Enough, the Pain Only Lasts a Second."

[flyangel2 2]

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The one with the visor on the full face helmets is a good one. Read this cutaway report which relates to that matter.

Yes, I had read that earlier in the day. Wow, kind of scary.
I can honestly say that I have never had a problem with my lens freezing up. And the reason for that is because I don't jump when it's cold enough to cause the lens to freeze. I'm a wimp when it comes to the cold.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey