dealing with canopy collisions

[smiles 0]

hello,
Recently I had a wake up call-
deployed my main, my slider stayed up with canopy open on the right, snivelling on the left- slowly spiraling. My first experience with an opening like this in over 1,000 jumps. I had just been on a 2-way dive- separation was good.

Canopy collisions are a reality and all should be prepared for one, have a plan, rehearse it, and then execute it.

On opening I have always had good habit of immediately grabbing my rear risers and steering myself into clear airspace before stowing my slider and releasing my brakes. So- first off I was using left rear riser in attempt to get left cells to inflate, looking up at my canopy decided to unstow brakes, wompa! my canopy was flying straight..slider came down.
Now I am face to face with my buddy flying straight towards me- grabbed my risers again and steered away to the right in time......

What if we had collided? Canopy wrap?....I know to make yourself big as possible with arms and legs to stop from going through lines- try to grab hold of other canopy and keep it down below me. Once canopy deflates if I am top jumper can climb out of it by sliding it off my body- being aware of my reserve & cutaway handles.

Line wrap or entanglement?...I have a more difficult time trying to rehearse this. Those with experience or those into CReW would have more knowledge.
Would be great to hear some info. from jumpers who have delt with this.

Communication is vital and if jumpers are wearing full face ...???? very limited. Altitude permitting- climb out or cut away- hook knife as last resort.
Don't panic, be aware of altitude and give enough time to cut away and deploy your reserve. If below 500, canopy transfer (deploy reserve & then jettison main)....
can anyone add to this, ???

thanx
Smiles[;)

eustress. : a positive form of stress having a beneficial effect on health, motivation, performance, and emotional well-being.

[bobsoutar 0]

Glad you're both ok! Sounds like you did the right thing at the time although since you had released your brakes you may have been better using them instead of risers to steer away, but then you were there and I wasn't.

There was a thread about this a couple of weeks ago with some useful info in it.

[weid14 0]

HMA, Specra, vectran at really fast closing speeds? I'm thinking get small to get through the lines hoping not to slice off something vital.

[falxori 0]

Quote

I know to make yourself big as possible with arms and legs to stop from going through lines

is that safe with today's lines and canopy speed?
nylon at high speed can result in you through the canopy but a few fingers left behind...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[tspillers 0]

You are still better off getting big. You may get some cuts, but you will most likely bounce off if you don't go through anything.

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[Sonic 0]

See this thread

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It's like something out of that twilighty show about that zone

[AndyMan 7]

Quote

HMA, Specra, vectran at really fast closing speeds? I'm thinking get small to get through the lines hoping not to slice off something vital.

Yup. Personally, with canopies flying at the speeds they do now, with line as small as it is... I'd be bunched up in a fetal position, feet and knees tucked up, arms protecting my throat, hands protecting my face.

That said, it's much better to avoid a colision then be in one...

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[tlshealy 0]

You did the right thing steering to avoid the collision, I'd think rather than worrying about if you should get big or small when you collide, take that last second or two an continue to steer away, you may turn a head on into a glancing blow. As with many things, an ounce of prevention is worth 23.5 lbs of cure.
BSBD
Tad

[smiles 0]

after my safety meeting:
1. my main is 150 triathlon and packing myself have consistently had beauty openings....someone else packed this.
2. good separation? can always improve that-re: just because it is only a 2-way shit can still happen.
3. research canopy collisions more until I can rehearse clearly- and be ready to execute plan.

thanx for the link to previous thread, and all that replied-

Smiles

eustress. : a positive form of stress having a beneficial effect on health, motivation, performance, and emotional well-being.

[billvon 2,996]

>You are still better off getting big. You may get some cuts . . .

For me it depends on the canopies. Two Mantas? Get big; you may get some cuts, but you have a good chance of avoiding entaglement. Two microline 100 sq ft canopies, closing at 50mph? Those "cuts" may include severing your carotid arteries and trachea, after which you won't care about whether you are entangled or not. Protecting your face, neck and groin are critical to your survival in such a collision; after you survive that, then you can start to deal with the resulting entanglement.

[tspillers 0]

I used to think that as well until I hosted a canopy coach course. The coach (a swoop circuit jumper) advised that even on canopies such as mine (Xaos) getting big is better. Your mass should be spread over the lines and there may be a canopy as well to help bounce you off. The lines will flex and give a bit.

There are of course always exceptions but it has started me thinking differently. Also, you may not realize who you are about to collide with or the size of their canopy and what their lines are. One sound plan prevents the confusion of thought. Much like teaching a student one course of action for a malfunction as opposed to determining wether or not to skip the cutaway.

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[falxori 0]

i think i'll trust my instinct and (if collision cant be avoided), protect my important body parts and maybe hold my cutaway handle in case a quick chop is in order.

since i'm on a sabre2 170, and most of the big student/tandem canopies are (usually) much higher i'd go with that option...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[billvon 2,996]

>One sound plan prevents the confusion of thought.

Well, I'll put it a different way then - if you are under a manta, about to collide with another manta, you probably have time to think about getting big. If you're closing on someone else at 50mph, I don't think you have time to do anything but the reflexive motion to protect your face (which we all have without any training, and which works for most high speed collisions between you and another object.) 50 feet away at 50mph is about 700 milliseconds; that's a very small amount of time to plan stuff. To even flinch it takes about 150 milliseconds. Intensive training could train a jumper to have the instinct to get big before such a high speed collision; it would have to be intensive to overcome your natural desire to protect yourself. Few jumpers get (or would seek) such training.

[tspillers 0]

I would definitely aggree with that. Just trying to pass on what the people jumping the high speed small line canopies are teaching. Your bottom line natural reaction quite often will overpower your reasoning.

I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example.

[bobsoutar 0]

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maybe hold my cutaway handle in case a quick chop is in order

One thing at a time. You need your hands to control the canopy.

[faulknerwn 38]

Quote

I used to think that as well until I hosted a canopy coach course. The coach (a swoop circuit jumper) advised that even on canopies such as mine (Xaos) getting big is better. Your mass should be spread over the lines and there may be a canopy as well to help bounce you off. The lines will flex and give a bit.

Well, having been in a canopy collision after a CRW wrap - where we probably had about 60 mph closing speeds - I'll never get big on freefall canopies. At the time I covered my head (I couldn't steer at the time) and did a half twist in the harness, I have a nice big scar on the back of my knee, and some other faint ones on the backs of my legs. I think that if I had hit microlines I would have lost the leg.

In this collision I blew straight through the canopy and perfectly out the other side into clean air, only breaking some lines in the process. There's no possible way I could have "bounced off" anything at those speeds.