What would you recommend as a first jump, based on the statistics that most will only make one jump - Static Line, Tandem or AFF?

[LizCarnes 0]

As a Drop Zone or Collegiate Club or Friend, what would you recommend as a first jump? Static Line, Tandem or AFF. Keep in mind that the majority of people will only make one jump, the cost, and the associated fun or thrill and of course safety.

[billvon 2,991]

Depends on their objective. If they want to make one, tandem. If they want to progress in the sport and have a lot of money, AFF. If they have more time than money, SL. AFF is statistically the safest; you get more education for your money with SL.

This question is sort of like the "what vehicle would you recommend?" A soccer mom, an 18 year old with a brand new license and a contractor are all going to have different requirements.

[PhreeZone 20]

Tandem, take as much pressure off the jumper as can be while still fully involving them in the experience.

For the jumper to be that insisists on going solo... Static line.

AFF is an overload experience for most people and as such I tend to like the hybrid programs more then anything else.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

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you get more education for your money with SL.

Bill, I disagree.

With a properly run AFP, a tandem student will learn more quicker. Sort of like training pilots, they don't sit them through a class, then put them in a plane and tell them the instructor will be on the radio.

The cost of my first 3 S/L jumps with 1st jump course cost me about the same as what an AFP Level1 Tandem would cost, but looking at the training program and the students that it is producing. They know more and are safer under canopy and in freefall then I was at the same cost point and I had had 3 jumps.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[billvon 2,991]

>With a properly run AFP, a tandem student will learn more quicker.
> Sort of like training pilots, they don't sit them through a class, then
> put them in a plane and tell them the instructor will be on the radio.

I agree with that, but given competent instruction in both AFF and SL, a SL student will graduate with roughly 3 times the jumps (and 3 times the instruction) than an AFF grad, and they will end up paying about the same. The AFFer may be slightly ahead in freefall skills, but in every other category (canopy control, spotting, gear familiarity, weather judgement) the SLer will have far more practical experience (and more education) than the AFF grad.

[AggieDave 6]

I agree with you when comparing straight AFF and S/L in those regards. I guess I'm hell bent on AFP, right now I think its the best thing we have for training new jumpers.

Take a S/L student, toss some Skydive U. coaching in and you'll have one squared away student with around 40 jumps.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

My dz is a SL dz, and I've seen a few AFF grads come down who are SO scared of doing a hop n pop it's amazing - they find it crazy to think we're jumping at 3500' sometimes.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[billvon 2,991]

One thing to watch with AFP is that it has become a catch-all phrase for any hybrid between the three basic methods. Roger Nelson calls his program an AFP, and he at one point started with 3 SL's then went to AFF.

[AggieDave 6]

The AFP I'm talking about is 2-3 tandems (depends on the student's performance), a transition course, then continues with basically AFF Lvl 4.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[rgoper 0]

i think tandem progression, into whatever program you choose from there, will be fine. the thing i worry about more than anything is new people getting into the sport and not being acclaimated to "freefall" my first tandem happened so fast i never knew what happened. i think you can learn as much about "canopy control" from a good TM as you can (or more) in a SL program, because you are actually under canopy with a very experienced TM and they will teach you to fly the canopy just the same, i believe this method gets the student(s) off to a better start. for the person who wants to jump "once" definetly tandem. good luck, with whatever method you employ!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[ChileRelleno 0]

I recommend a tandem jump for the 1st even if they express the intent to become a "skydiver".

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[tombuch 0]

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As a Drop Zone or Collegiate Club or Friend, what would you recommend as a first jump? Static Line, Tandem or AFF. Keep in mind that the majority of people will only make one jump, the cost, and the associated fun or thrill and of course safety.

The best training depends on the objectives and how much money and time the student has, as well as how well run the individual program is. That part of your question seems to be getting addressed here. The title of your post asks about statistics, and assumes a person is only going to make one jump. I recently completed a new book about skydiving called "Jump! Make Your First Skydive Fun and Easy" to be published by McGraw Hill in spring 2003. The book includes some interesting statistics. The actual chapter, called "Understanding Risk" offers a bit more context and lots more detail than I can offer here.

In any event, let me offer some quick numbers:

In 2000, USPA reported 34,217 members, and 32 fatalities. That is a fatality rate of 1 per 1,069 members. Those numbers will vary a bit from year to year, but an average of data collected between 1991 and 2000 shows 1 fatalilty per 903 members.

Also in 2000, USPA estimates members made 2,224,165 jumps, so the fatality rate based on jumps is 1 per 70,130 skydives. Of course the number of total jumps for the year is just an estimate.

It's hard to figure out the fatality rate for students, but in the year 2001 USPA data show 35 fatalities, with five of those being students. That's about 14 percent of the fatalities.

Perhaps some of the most interesting statistics relate to tandem skydiving.

In 1999 the FAA published a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) regarding a change to the FAR's, and it included then current statistics reported by the various manufacturers for the period 1991 through 1996. The data included 670,707 tandem jumps and 8 fatalities, giving a tandem fatality rate of 1 per 83,838 jumps. At that time the FAA required all tandem jumps to be logged, and required those logs be maintained by the manufacturers. The tandem numbers were actually just a bit better than solo student fatalities for the period examined.

In the years since the collection of the NPRM data, tandem skydiving has undergone significant changes, including mandatory AAD's, new equipment designs, new training programs.

The most recent data collected by the Relative Workshop shows a single fatality for 420,000 estimated tandem jumps WORLDWIDE. The domestic numbers are even better, with one fatality following 540,000 tandem jumps in the United States.

Based on the current available data, it looks like the safest way to make a single student skydive is tandem.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
etc.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Hooknswoop 19]

A learning tandem. Meaning they wear an altimeter, do PHT's, w/o and pull, and fly the canopy.

Hook

[DutchSkyCam 0]

Fatalities on tandems are rare, landing injuries are more common... (just to let you know, injuries are not mentioned so far...)
Normally the TM (and I am a TM) blames the injury on the passenger (and, ehh, well, pfff, they should have lifted their legs higher)... But... etc, etc, etc....
There is probably another TM or TI to explain better, since my english is getting worse and worse since I left the states in 1999, and have already had a few beers before writing this...
Barry (350 Tandemjumps, no injuries so far)
and BTW ehhhh, what's a PHT?

[Lolie 0]

I started with tandems, and loved it. I feel like I would have been too distracted with doing everything right if I had gone static line. I really liked that I got to just sort of sit back and chill on my first jump (I didn't do COA, PHT's, etc. until Tandem #2), and let the adrenaline do its work. I was expecting to only do one jump in my whole life, but the first thing I said once I got back to the ground was, "I wanna do it again!" And I did. I say go with tandem. If you doubt you'll ever do it again, *definitely* go with a tandem.

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and BTW ehhhh, what's a PHT?

It's a Practice Handle Touch.

-Miranda
you shall above all things be glad and young / For if you're young,whatever life you wear
it will become you;and if you are glad / whatever's living will yourself become.

[skreamer 1]

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but in every other category (canopy control, spotting, gear familiarity, weather judgement) the SLer will have far more practical experience (and more education) than the AFF grad.

Also SL graduates are generally a lot more comfortable exiting the plane at lower altitudes (probably a distinct advantage in the event of an aircraft emergency). By the time a SL student graduates they would also have spent a lot of time on the ground at the DZ listening and learning. An AFF student with money can graduate in just a couple of weekends.

Will

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Oh no, this is twice in two days I have to agree with Skreamer....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[skreamer 1]

The Scottish are the worst engineers in the world!

(just helping you out so you don't have to go for 3 out of 3....)

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Thanks dude, I gotta disagree with you there.....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Today? A tandem. After that, assuming a dropzone is following USPA ISP (as they should be), it really doesn't make a difference if they finish AFF or SL, since by the time they get their A-license they will have exactly the same qualifications.

A tandem is what I recommend because it is the best way to get a person out of an airplane at full altitude, with the least amount of stress, to see if they actually even "like" freefall. It is also the most economical.

Just my opinion as someone with every relevent instructional rating who also grew up on a dropzone.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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but in every other category (canopy control, spotting, gear familiarity, weather judgement) the SLer will have far more practical experience (and more education) than the AFF grad.

I agree, but the AFP grad (3 learning tandems, 17 supervised, and video'd) skydives w/ an instructor will have more freefall and canopy skills than an AFF or S/L grad.

Hook

[PhreeZone 20]

I think the question was refering to a single jump. If you were going to take a hardcore whuffo that may or may not return out on a jump which would be best?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Hooknswoop 19]

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I think the question was refering to a single jump. If you were going to take a hardcore whuffo that may or may not return out on a jump which would be best?

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A learning tandem. Meaning they wear an altimeter, do PHT's, w/o and pull, and fly the canopy.

Right, I answered the original question. Which program is the best route to learn has a bearing on the original question, because they "may" continue and get their license. So we are discussing two differrent topics, I replied to both.

Hook

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Yeah. I agree with Derek if we are going to talk about "other than USPA" common methods. I think a Tandem Progression (AFP, whatever you call it at your DZ) level one would be the best "single" skydive for a first-time jumper.

Chuck

[Squeak 17]

Well speaking as someone who initially wasonly going to do 1 jump, I think it very much depends on your motivation to exit a plane at altitude.
Mine was to get the biggest adreniline buzz possibleThe unfortunate thing is that after AFF1 I didn't get any buzz at all really.
So i spoke to my wife and decided to try it again to see if my total focus on the AFF jump took away the initial buzz, I was expecting.
Well so far it has taken 6 jumps to develop anything close to what I had anticipated from Jump one.
But I have seen many people come down from a tandem, and jump about and scream how wonderfull it is.
For me the more control that is given to me the more I get a kick out of it. If the instructors have all the control there's not much point in me being there.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?