will he kill himself??

[flyhy 0]

One of my friends (55 jumps) is going to buy his first own rig. Therefore he wants to try as many different canopies as possible before buying one. He also wants to jump the 135 sabre of his friend. We told him that it's too early for downsizing that much (he's only been jumping 210 F111 student canopies before, sabre 170 once), but his reply is: he doesn't want to buy that 135, only wants to TRY it once.
BTW he's got about 80kgs and landed the sabre 170 in some cornfield when he tried to get back to the dz in strong winds. He did a very low turn into the wind that a 135 probably wouldn't forgive...
How can we make him change his mind about these 'experiments' and convince him that 'once' can already be too much?

[PhillyKev 0]

Show him the pictures of Chile Rellenos foot in the talk back forum.

[fudd 0]

Who in their right mind will lend him a 135? I sure would not. Nobody can stop him from trying, but the DZO can deny him to do it at their DZ. Don't lend him your 135 unless you want to feel responsible.

[billvon 3,070]

>How can we make him change his mind about these 'experiments'
>and convince him that 'once' can already be too much?

I don't try to stop people any more. If I do, then I'm the bad guy who is calling them incompetent and they have to defend themselves. Instead, I just ask them if they can:

-flat turn at 50 feet at least, say, 90 degrees
-flare turn at least 45 degrees
-land uphill and downhill
-land crosswind and in no wind
-land standing up in a 10 meter target consistently
-land with rear risers

And once they can do all that, go for the smaller canopy. That way it is _their_ skills holding them back, not a loser S+TA who doesn't understand how good they are, how above average their canopy control skills are.

So you might want to try that. Encourage him to try smaller canopies, as soon as he can do all the above. If he's that good, he should have no problem doing all that, right?

[JDBoston 0]

Ask him if he would stick his dick in some hooker with AIDS, with no condom, "only once, to see what it's like."

He needs to look at things a little more rationally... or you could just stall him for 10-20 more jumps, I'm sure he'll find some way to pound in on a bigger canopy and maybe that'll scare some sense into him.

Joe

[nws01 0]

Quote

Ask him if he would stick his dick in some hooker with AIDS, with no condom, "only once, to see what it's like."

Nice analogy. Short and to the point!

[rendezvous 0]

Ask him if he would stick his dick in some hooker with AIDS, with no condom, "only once, to see what it's like."
____________________________________________________________

If this doesn't drive home the point nothing can.

[rgoper 0]

Quote

If this doesn't drive home the point nothing can.

LOL! no "pun" intended?

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[amir1967 0]

let him jump that 135 .
If he pulls it off he'll change is mind (and if not)
you had a nice friend
I can only speak for my self, 170 is small for 60 or so jump no matter how good you think you are

Quote

AM67

• Quote

[freeflir29 0]

Just remember to get his wallet, car keys, and have him put you on a life insurance policy. Then "wish him well."

[Deuce 1]

Yeah, have him wear stuff he doesn't mind those paramedics cutting up with scissors.

A good paramedic with a new pair of scissors is like going to Benihana to watch the guy cook.

MAN DOWN!

Sniiiipppppp!

Man naked.

Just that fast.

[mujie96 0]

You could tell him that you know a 120 pound chick jumping a 170. Of course, he will feel compelled to make a chick comment, and I also have about 30 fewer jumps sooooo you could make sure he's got good health insurance. Good luck.
Jess

Just keep swimming...just keep swimming....

[billvon 3,070]

>let him jump that 135 .
>If he pulls it off he'll change is mind (and if not)

No, unfortunately, what's more likely is that he will land it survivably, and then reason "Hey, I can land a 135 with no problem, I'll be safe and get a conservative 149!" and he will be then jumping a canopy that he is equally unprepared for.

[ChileRelleno 0]

Show him the pics of my foot,tell him the one about the aids infested hooker, and let him know that you care about him as a friend and you'd hate to see him get hurt.At his stage hes like a toddler still wobbly on his feet,he will fall down and if hes under a small loaded canopy its gonna hurt....

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[cloud9 0]

Bill I think you hit the nail on the head. To many times we tell these newer jumpers that they will get hurt under a small canopy, then they see someone with little experience jump one without injury. There goes your credibility. The truth is odds are he will not get hurt just jumping the canopy once. But if he does get hurt it'll probably be bad, and if he jumps it a lot the odds increase a lot. So maybe we should just start telling the truth that if you jump this canopy you will probably be ok, but if something goes wrong on the jump then you'll probably get hurt and get hurt bad. There are a lot of people out there that with 50 jumps could land a canopy loaded at 1.5 on a straight in approach with a little wind and a good spot and not get hurt. The problem is how often do you have all those conditions?

[Deuce 1]

Bill talked about this when he put up a list of things somebody should be able to do on their current canopy before they downsize. (I think it was BillV)

At 50 jumps, including AFF, that has not happened.
Up,down hills, cross, downwind, accuracy, braked, braked turn, rear riser landing, etc, etc.

When I learned how to fly small planes the instructors talked about "flying ahead of the plane", the idea is to be in front of the plane and it's problems, not in it, and certainly not behind it.

Once things start to get complicated on an approach, and the new canopy pilot starts to "get behind the plane" a cascade of bad decisions is likely to lead to injury or worse.

There's a guy at my DZ who has about 100 jumps, and is on a Sabre II 150 that has his complete attention on a straight in final. I hope, really, that he gets the necessary experience through a lot of small problems before a big problem comes along that hurts him.

Check the threads for that checklist of things you should be able to do before downsizing. Ask your buddy how many of them he's done.

[Kirils 1]

I don't think he should be in the sport. Just give him a gun....it'll be a lot easier.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[Scoby 0]

Out of curiosity, how big is the guy with the 150? I've been jumping 190s and feeling really good. I was thinking 170 for my first rig. However, a number of people have said that, "You'll want a 150, 170 will bore you." That stuff sets of alarm bells in my head. I'm a smallish guy at 160 or so (and shrinking!), but I don't think I want something that small. But am I reasonable in thinking 170 will be fine?

[drenaline 0]

am no expert but I think that that canopy is to small for him. Tell him what billvon said about the skills, and then brainwash him with "it only takes 1 jump to get yourself killed or hurt".

It only took one jump to a friend of mine to break his coxys, one jump for another friend to break his leg, it only took me one jump to hurt my wrist and it only took one jump to kill a lot of our skydiving community and most of them were flying a perfectly good canopy.

another thing, he wont enjoy the ride he will go like this: Open canopy, release toggles, scream "Oh Sh¡t, Oh Sh¡t to fast to fast... time to land" whack! "ouch flared to late".

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[Cajones 0]

Let's all try to look at this as a good opportunity... If he refuses the advise of the S&TA, and the DZO still lets him jump, lets all take out life insurance policies on him. It sucks when low-timers get a case of rectal/cranial inversion, so we might as well get a new otter out of it. (Tell him I said this - please)

The laws of physics are strictly enforced.

[RichM 0]

Quote

But am I reasonable in thinking 170 will be fine?

Absolutely. It hurts less to learn all Bills canopy skills under a bigger canopy. If you get a container made for a 170 you can fit a 150 in there later with an adjustment to the closing loop length. Don't be rushed by people, do your own thing, then you can say

Quote

I told you so

when you visit them in hospital

Rich M

[Albatross 0]

Bill has made all the relivant points. But the bottom line is that he will MOST likely land it great. He will have much more speed and a "better flare". Depending on how his brain is wired he may love it. Now as Bill said is the problem. He can land the canopy when he is 100% focused on landing; in a controled environment; with little trafic and no one cutting him off; into the wind; with 200 feet to land in. This is not what SHOULD be used to decide which canopy to buy. If everything goes to shit what do you KNOW that you can land safely PERIOD.

A little homage to my mentor Skybytch.

Chris

[nicknitro71 0]

Fuck him. Give the dude a Velocity 79! Then let natural selection do its things.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[nws01 0]

I personally think joking about another skydiver getting hurt or killed under a perfectly good canopy is in very bad taste.

Let's hope the person has enough intelligence not to do this or the skill level early in the sport to handle it.

[christoofar 0]

Quote

Out of curiosity, how big is the guy with the 150? I've been jumping 190s and feeling really good. I was thinking 170 for my first rig. However, a number of people have said that, "You'll want a 150, 170 will bore you." That stuff sets of alarm bells in my head. I'm a smallish guy at 160 or so (and shrinking!), but I don't think I want something that small. But am I reasonable in thinking 170 will be fine?

It depends on your experience. Can you get an S&TA to watch your landings? I bounced around on all different sorts of canopies before I found what I liked. I was jumping a safire 229 under rental gear to begin with... then I experimented:

a new Sabre 190
an old Sabre 150
a Safire 169
an Omega 209 (Waynes Bros. voice: "Hated it!")
old Triathlon (dont' remember the size right now off the top of my head)
a slightly used SabreII-170 <- I ended up liking this one

Out of that whole bunch the best flyer I liked was the SabreII 170. I weigh 185 with gear on. You don't necessarily need to get the smallest thing out of the box. You get a canopy that you can safely land (ALL THE TIME) and is fun. Demo some canopies and see what you like.

For myself, after I'm done with the SabreII I will probably put it in a second rig and go to a Cobalt or a Hornet 150. For now I'm still having fun flying what I have.

I can put Billvon's list in a short, compact, easy to carry sentence: If you don't feel 100% comfortable landing downwind in that thing, DON'T fly it.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.