Has anyone seen this before

[Buzz120 0]

My brother who is new to the sport, s/l method is having a hard time staying stable during his practice rip cord pull. After reviewing the video we were all amazed to see that he went head down almost immediatly after releasing the strut. Any ideas or advice on how to stay stable. Im really worried about him and couldnt offer much help as i went AFP

[lazerq3 0]

arch hard and keep lookinng up at the plane!!! I never did S/l but when I leave the plane that always works for me


jason

Freedom of speech includes volume

[AggieDave 6]

I did that on my first clear and pull. With me it was because I didn't really arch and I rolled my shoulders forward when reaching.

The secret of success?

ARRRRCH

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skybytch 273]

Quote

arch hard and keep lookinng up at the plane

Yup. Looking at the plane and arching hard as he lets go of the strut should solve the head down problem.

Practicing the pull sequence repeatedly on the ground - at the dz, at home, even at work - helped me a lot too after I went a bit unstable on my first PRCP (practice ripcord pull).

[Kris 0]

Almost guaranteed that he's bending at the waist while looking for the practice throw. He needs to maintain a hard arch.

He probably also needs to realize that he has a couple of more seconds to complete the task than he thinks he has.

Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.

Kris
IAD-JM

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Bruno 0]

The secret is:
On exit do not think about ripcord, but TO ARCH!!!
Then for the ripcord maintaining arch, it doesn't matter if the s/l is pulling, you don't have to pull the ripcord before s/l open your container.
FIRST ARCH THEN RIP.
Bruno

[nacmacfeegle 0]

All the above are good, also important...don't rush it you have a lot more time than you think.....

--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

[BMFin 0]

I also have gone through the s/l training. Of course im not an expert but it really helped me to arch, when i blew all the air out of my lungs just before exit. That way you get much better arch.

[markbaur 0]

There are several possibilities for what you've described.

First, you may be seeing one of the natural reactions to anxiety, the fetal position. Other natural reactions are fight-or-flight (which manifests itself as kicking or swimming), and "cat" (looks like someone trying to get down on all fours). Exhortations to "try harder," "arch more," etc., are generally ineffective and may be counterproductive, as they add to anxiety. Often the best solution is to go back to Cat A static line jumps, no PRCP, just work on the relaxed freefall arch.

Second, your brother may be trying to get stable face-to-earth, instead of hips-to-wind (which for static line is a more nearly vertical position). This is a conceptual error, based on watching too many skydiving movies, and it occurs in AFF students just as often as static line students. If you stand on the step or hang from the strut, the wind comes from the forward motion of the airplane. In the split second after letting go, the wind continues from the forward motion of the airplane, so the hips should push to the horizon. At the end of the static line, most of the wind still comes from forward throw, so hips should still be pushed more or less to the horizon.

Third, the problem may lie in the pull count. "Arch, look, reach, pull" was the most common count for years, and worked okay when the main ripcord was mounted on the main lift web, about where most cut-away handles are located now. With a hip or BOC ripcord, there's nothing to look at, so as others on this thread have pointed out, looking down degrades the arch. A better count is "Arch, reach, pull" or "Arch, reach, feel, pull." (If you want to change, be sure you discuss it with your instructors first -- they may have years of success with "Arch, look, reach, pull" and have better reasons for keeping it than I have for changing it.)

In fairness to your brother, the hardest jump in skydiving is the static line PRCT. With just seconds of "freefall" time (the length of the static line, times 2), a student is expected to maintain stability at subterminal while pulling a ripcord within 4 seconds, but trying to pull too quickly results in haphazard grabs at the ripcord, and pulling too slowly makes it difficult for the jumpmaster to tell if the poor arch was caused by the student or by the opening canopy.

Mark

[waster 0]

eye ball the jump master all the way, that way the head facing up, making it quite difficult to de-arch, as the position thrusts your chest foward. You also get the best view, watching the plane go up and away.

[drenaline 0]

I did static line and the only thing you have to worry is about the arch. Arch without loosing sight of the plane while doing the PRCP. What skybytch said about practicing the PRCP is the best way to do it. Practice everywhere everytime. Two words: Muscle Memory.

HISPA 21
www.panamafreefall.com

[Buzz120 0]

Cool thanx all for the great advice. We were just checkin it all out and they all sound like great things to try. Cant wait for Sunday to get him out there for his last S/L and hopefully a Hop and Pop after that..........Really lookin forward to draggin him off from 12500...........Thanx again

[fool 0]

from my personal experience, I would go with the trying to get belly to earth too fast. I did that on my first level pff, and it caused me to tumble around for the rest of the skydive. If he tries to point his toes to the ground and still be in the arch, it should help...I don't know, worked for me.

S.E.X. party #1

"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting "f*#k, what a ride".

[rendezvous 0]

he might be forcing himself to look down and as a result bending down at his waist or something causing him to dearch. Anyway, whatever it is, like everyone here has said a nice arch with the head up looking at the plane should fix it.

[dterrick 0]

Quote

we were all amazed to see that he went head down almost immediatly after releasing the strut.

"You're an ideal candidate for headdown" says the DZO after he saw my video of the same problem while performing poised exits. The issue was an upper in Box with legs fully presented causing me to tilt immediately off the step.

Once I solved this issue I really began to "see" the plane off the step - rather than a second or 2 later . Geez it's dirty underneath !!

The Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[Hooknswoop 19]

The Instructor(s) are probably teaching the "Arch", "Look", "Reach", "Pull" method for the PRCP. Take away the "Look" step, which usually results in a de-arch, and have him watch the airplane on exit and the de-arching/front-looping exit problem should go away. I always hated having people look at the main handle, chances are they couldn't see it anyway, resulted in a de-arch, and that isn't the way skydivers deploy their mains anyway. Ever try to look for your BOC? Good luck

Hook

[Kirils 1]

People new to the sport who invert leaving the strut might do better hanging just by the arms instead of hopping or kicking off the peg. I'll bet his eyes were closed. Get on a mat and practice arching.
I would have recommend going AFF. SL is not as safe as AFF and in the end if you want to persue the sport you go to an AFF program anyway!

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[skymedic 0]

Quote

. SL is not as safe as AFF

a pretty blanket statement there.....prove it!!!...

a little background on me....I am an AFF grad and do believe that the "new" AFF is better over all..but I dont believe for a second that it is any "safer" than SL....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[Kirils 1]

Check out the USPA stats. You will find AFF is by far the safer of the two.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[skymedic 0]

Please define your version of safe? as in Deaths or as in injuries.....

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[skymedic 0]

There is nothing on the USPA website saying that static line is more dangerous than the other...

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[billvon 3,070]

>SL is not as safe as AFF . . .

Yes it is. Neither program has a significant safety advantage.

> and in the end if you want to persue the sport you go to an AFF
> program anyway!

You don't have to do that. SL programs get you to the same place AFF programs do - it just takes longer to get there.

[skymedic 0]

Thank you Bill....I jump at a SL predominate DZ...it is a cheaper way to go and it tends to put out just as good of jumpers using the new ISP as any AFF program i have seen...actualy better than the traditional AFF for sure

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[riggerrob 643]

Kirils,
You and I are going to have a long and loud argument about whether S/L is more dangerous than AFF.
Hint, I earned my first instructor rating 20 years ago, dropping static-line students on military surplus round parachutes.
Since then I have added IAD, tandem, and PFF ratings.
No single system is safer than any other system, they work better at different points in the learning curve.
There have been deaths in all programs.
As for the argument that any program produces better instructors, ... USPA has addressed that issue with the ISP. In the long run, students should get the same quality of instruction no matter which program they are in.
For example: tandem is a great way to get students over that huge psychological threshold on the first jump. Then a couple of S/L or IAD jumps can teach them the basics of steering a parachute, followed by a half dozen PFF dives to learn freefall survival skills. Complete the program with a few coach dives to polish solo skills.
Note: Progressive Freefall is a program developed by the Canadian Sports Parachuting Association that is similar to USPA's AFF Program. The biggest difference is that few Canadian instructors are willing to take students freefall on their first jump.

Sincerely,
Rob Warner
S/L, IAD, PFF and Tandem Instructor
Coach 2
FAA Master Parachute Rigger
Jump Pilot (retired)
manufacturer of camera gloves for TI
pompous old fart, etc.

[Casch 0]

On my "Last" PRCP, I went to pull and my chute was out of the bag already and all I could find was the openening of the container, not the cord. I was sooo P O'd. I am certain it's because of having a different JM, I didn't feel comfortable with him. So I had to do it again so I am a jump behind in the course, but this time my JM was Andy Ferrington, I think he's my fav. JM at kapowsin and I did fine.

You have to go through the count smoothly but not too slow or your friend may have the same problem as I did, and have to spend another $40-$50 or whatever it cost for ya.