riddler 0 #1 October 2, 2002 I say "only" like it's not a big deal. I can't flare under rear risers. I've been told it's possible, but I've tried and I can't do it. This happened to me - extremely hard open that strangled me with the chest strap. Broken steering line - spinning. I chopped - couldn't get it back under control. As it was spinning, I was thinking if I control it with rear risers, then I can land it. My next thought was I can't flare with only one steering line, so I might as well cut away. And I did. So I think there's no right answer to this - depends on the size of canopy, head-winds, how good you are at PLF, wingload, etc. FYI - I'm at 1:1 on a 190 square, had a 4-5 MPH headwind, so I probably would have been able to land it without too much of a problem. My question is if you had a broken steering line on your current canopy, would you try to land it, or cut away? And what is your wingload? Elliptical or square?Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #2 October 2, 2002 I've landed my Heatwave 135 @ 1.48 in a light downwind with rear risers only (but toggles in hand in case) to figure out what I would do. -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #3 October 2, 2002 I think I need to try it to see how bad it really is. It's a big canopy, making riser flares tough, but considering that the reserve didn't flare for shit either, it probably wouldn't have been much different. Now if I can just get out of that spin faster. Like your signature - my reserve was due for a repack on the 15th of this month anyway, so it wasn't a huge loss. I'm glad I threw away the handles, but wish I kept them all the same.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #4 October 2, 2002 I can land my Hornet 210 loaded at 1.26 with the rear risers.I've practiced this many times at altitude to get a feel for it,the hornet at this loading is very responsive to the rear risers for turns,landing and extending my glide path on a long spot.I do however find the front riser pressure to be a little heavy. You made the right decisions at the right time,dwell on this experince only long enough to learn from it. Remember "WHEN IN DOUBT,WHIP IT OUT!" ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #5 October 2, 2002 I have landed my Samurai 150 at 1.8 with rear risers only. I worked up to it on several jumps, but I'm pretty confident that if I lost a toggle, I'd be okay to land what I had. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #6 October 2, 2002 my "golden rule" for myself is, if i'm at my hard deck, and i'm not S.S.S. (square, steerable and stable) i will go to "plan b" in the instance i had a broken steering line, i would see if i could rear riser it, while still with some altitude, and i'm sure i could, if for some reason i couldn't, Cha-Chink! C Ya! and i'm not one to be quick to cut-away at all, one of these days, i fear that may be my undoing, i've cleared a lot of stuff when i shouldn't have fooled with it, but i've always had a good canopy at 1600'-1800' AGL as well. but having said all of that, when in doubt "whoop that reserve out!"--Richard-- "We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #7 October 2, 2002 Quotebut I'm pretty confident that if I lost a toggle, I'd be okay to land what I had. I'm wondering if I did lose a toggle because of a snapped line or whatever, if the canopy would react assymetrically b/c of the toggle that is still there being pulled by of the guide ring. I've got mine set pretty loose for front risering, but I still wonder. -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #8 October 2, 2002 My steering lines are pretty loose, too. I have 22inch risers and really long arms, so I still get a nice long toggle input. They are loose, so I can pull pretty hard on front risers, with zero tail deflection. I haven't actually lost a steering line, or had one cut to force a rear-riser landing, but I'm certain that it would have no noticeable effect. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #9 October 2, 2002 Gotta agree with Chile"when in doubt,whip it out" Im a very lowtime jumper and I was trained"If I dont know,chop it".So,if Im in a situation with a main mal and"I dont know,or,Im not sure",Im personally gonna chop it.Oh yeah,and go to my reserve. dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #10 October 2, 2002 >My question is if you had a broken steering line on your current > canopy, would you try to land it, or cut away? And what is your > wingload? Elliptical or square? I have a 1.7 to 1 Safire. It would depend on the situation. At my normal DZ, decent winds? I'd probably land it. During a 100 way at Perris with the usual shifty winds and odd traffic patterns? I'd probably chop it. I know I _can_ land it with rear risers and a steady wind, but I would not want to have to land downwind with risers only due to getting cut off or something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #11 October 2, 2002 That's part of my situation too - I'm at 85 jumps and still don't feel confident about a lot of canopy situations. This one didn't take much thought because I couldn't get it to fly straight to begin with, but I wonder what would have been the appropriate thing to do if it was flying straight. I think I will start playing with flaring under rear riser on landing to see what it's like. I'll look out for strong head winds and if they are over 10, I think I'll try it. I've seen people that have dive loops on the rear riser as well as the front - might be a good idea to get that modified before I start. That and work the pull-ups a little more often at the gym Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 0 #12 October 2, 2002 Don't experiment when your on final,experiment at altitude on many many jumps with all the different aspects of control. You should be able to feel and see the action/reaction of your control inputs,get comfortable and knowledgable with these then put them to work. Play safely and have fun! ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414 Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cajones 0 #13 October 2, 2002 Be careful with those sort of trivalties. A main with a broken steering line is something I've seen students handle (actually the steering line was stuck in the keeper ring, but they still couldn't use it). The reserve canopy has no guarantees of being perfect. A fairly recent cutaway from a broken suspension lines in Suffolk turned into a reserve with two suspension lines that separated at a finger trap. If you have a canopy you can safely land - do so. There is no second chance if the canopy you exchange for has its own set of problems. The laws of physics are strictly enforced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dropdeded 0 #14 October 3, 2002 Point taken. dropdeded------------------------------------------ The Dude Abides. - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #15 October 3, 2002 QuoteMy question is if you had a broken steering line on your current canopy, would you try to land it, or cut away? And what is your wingload? Elliptical or square? I would first have to try the flare above 2000 feets, if I can flare it and fly it then I land it, if I cant I chop it. Wingload is 1.2:1 semi-elliptical (spectre). HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #16 October 3, 2002 Quotewould you try to land it, or cut away? And what is your wingload? Elliptical or square? I jump a Stiletto at 1.35:1 I would land it. The rear risers don't really "flare" you but it will plane the canopy out and you can skid out the rest. If my canopy opens with a broken steering line it isn't a good canopy, it's a decent canopy. Not a bad one, but not worth going to my reserve either. KrisSky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chief 0 #17 October 3, 2002 I agree with Chile and others, if in doubt - chop it. No decision is a decision. If you can't control it and your are debating, you are losing altitude. Practice rear riser landings gradually. If you do not feel confident in doing them, then you have your answer - chop it. Stay Safe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #18 October 3, 2002 I was advised by many wise folk here on te forums, that canopies can behave oddly without the tension of a brake line. You can't safely simulate this, so I changed my mind over a procedure for this, me? I would chop.......given decent alt of course.-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BPO 0 #19 October 3, 2002 I'd chop it... the landing zone at our DZ is rather small, wouldn't want to worry about landing with rear risers and NOT biting the surrounding fences or buildings.. Never even tried rear-riser landings, to me it seems like too big a risk.. If I'd have to land my reserve using rear-risers.. well.. I was having a bad day anyway.. !!PLFPLFPLF!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #20 October 3, 2002 I'd chop it. Landing a highly loaded eliptical on rear risers is not my idea of fun. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #21 October 3, 2002 You might as well get your knife and cut the other line anyway, as that's going to be replaced as well if the other line has snapped? Just a thought.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spy38W 0 #22 October 4, 2002 QuoteYou might as well get your knife and cut the other line anyway, as that's going to be replaced as well if the other line has snapped? Just a thought. Oh, the hooknife that's been sitting on my desk since I bought it? -- Hook high, flare on time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fasterfaller 0 #23 October 4, 2002 I would not even think about trying to land my velocity with a broken steering line . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #24 October 4, 2002 "Oh, the hooknife that's been sitting on my desk since I bought it? " In the UK hook knives are mandatory for peeps above student status......But lets not get back into the knife or not thing here again..-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #25 October 4, 2002 >In the UK hook knives are mandatory for peeps above student status But not for students? In Finland they're mandatory for everyone. >But lets not get back into the knife or not thing here again.. Aww, c'mon, let's have another round of beating the dead horse! Seriously, what's the argument on _not_ wearing a knife? Eno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
