(UN)Lucky Jump 13

[ifallout 0]

I am not sure about a regulation but in the SIM Section 3.1-D (2001 version) it lists the License privileges and Requirements, and under A it says

1. Persons holding a USPA A license may pack their own mains, engage in basic group jumps, perform water jumps and must have
a) completed 20 freefall jumps
b) completed all requirements listed on the USPA A license Proficency Card.

And section 2-1-E-6-b states "All students engaging in group freefall jumps must be accompanied by a USPA coach or higher rating holder (except tandem instructor) until the student has obtained a USPA A license.


So for my money there is a regulation against just that kind of jump.

they are there for a reason.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[ifallout 0]

good point Rich,

and every second you fight a lost cause canopy is time you could be fixing something on your reserve, or finding your landing spot after you loose altitude from the cutaway and very likely can't make it back to the DZ.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[jerm 0]

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have an extensive knowledge of airfoils and fluid dynamics as well, but that does not qualify me to jump a sub-100 sq ft Stiletto either.

For someone who has stood up all (nearly all) of their landings, i don't think a .77 loading on a large docile canopy is really too much of an issue, let alone at all comparable to jumping a sub-100 stiletto.

Just because it's done differently than what's done at your DZ doesn't make it wrong or dangerous. It's all about the pilot and the training.

I STARTED on a sabre190, and stood everything up until well after i was done student... and i'm not alone

Does that make me or my instructors reckless and dangerous? No, it means that things were done differently than what you were used to, which isn't necessarily wrong or dangerous.

Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time

[darkvapor 0]

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Does that make me or my instructors reckless and dangerous? No, it means that things were done differently than what you were used to, which isn't necessarily wrong or dangerous.

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I completely agree with you. In my earlier post, I said that I could be completely wrong, and that he could have been an excellent canopy pilot. However, the point of my reference was a general concern for the adherence to common sense, and general safety. Is jumping with buddies at jump number 8 inherently dangerous? No, not necessarily. But it does constitute a much greater risk that should not be taken. The same applies to canopy piloting. He chose to justify his canopy flight decisions based on his fixed wing experience. My concern is that he needs to better evaluation his decisions, as all of us should. What I was saying was, just because I understand fluid dynamics, doesn't mean I am automatically qualified to jump a sub-100 Stilleto. That decision needs to be based on my direct experience in flying canopies and other important factors. My point to him was, that just because you are a pilot or a have a dangerous job, that does not entitle you to take higher risks before you are able to. From the information he provided, it looks like his canopy downsizing decision was not necessarily hasty or dangerous. If one takes the time to evaluate skill and downsize to something well within reason, then that is a fine choice. You just have to be sure that choice is justified with the right reasons.

[ScottCargill 0]

Whoa... I didn't say nor imply that I was justifiying my actions. I did reply to the comment that I shouldn't be landing on my feet. From some notion that no one other than an experianced sky diver would be able to determine when to flare their chute for a nice soft landing.

Scott Cargill
Easthillskungfu.com

[ScottCargill 0]

You're right of course. I had altitude awareness down to 5,000 at which point I watched him opening up and realitively coming up to my altitude, (I know, Me plumeting down to his) .... I'd already started my deployment by the time I'd gotten even with him.

Course after I'd opened and got to the point of "Uh OH" I was too busy to be looking at how low I was....

Scott Cargill
Easthillskungfu.com

[ScottCargill 0]

Thanks, I'm definently liking that 220. And plan to keep flying it for a long while, though I had one person at the dz trying to tell me that down sizing to something closer to my weight would actually help my landings?? I'm not going to hold a LOT of faith in that bit of advise heh heh..

Thanks for the advise on deployment, My last 5 jumps have been good deployments, your comments will help a lot on the ones to come.

Scott Cargill
Easthillskungfu.com

[3fLiEr 0]

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***
, both myself and my friend perform high risk tasks in our jobs. So saftey IS always in our minds.

So much safety in your minds that you have no idea what you refer to your kit as...... the thing saves your life each time you jump - dont you think it might be safe to know what it is and what it does??

Be safe............

Cya

Michael

[howardwhite 6]

I suspect a troll here. ScottCargill is from Taft, CA, as is DToXX, who claimed to be off AFF and working with another similar jumper getting ready for their A.

HW

[ifallout 0]

I have no idea who DToXX is, i see no posts from anyone by that name in this thread..

If ScottCargill is from Taft, CA. I don't really care. If he is just setting up the post, i don't care either... If that is the case i hope a new guy sees it and learns something, that is the goal anyway, right?

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[ScottCargill 0]

Heh Heh, Actaually we're both from Bakersfield, Ca. We jump out at One of the two DZ's in Taft.
You're close though, we're not one and the same, but we live within 3 blocks of each other does that count?
Scott Cargill
Easthillskungfu.com

[howardwhite 6]

DTOXX started another thread, "Witnessed my first cutaway today." It was remarkably similar in circumstance -- two pre-A AFF grads jumping together -- and remarkably similar in response. I'm not convinced the responses constitute a learning experience.

HW

[jsaxton 0]

TALK to your instructors. This type of behaviour will turn you into a greasy spot on the runway.

[kevin922 0]

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You call that hand deploy thing a BOC and the drag chute a Pilot Chute.

Perhaps I need to get more familar with my gear as well. I thought BOC stood for bottom of container, meaning the POUCH the pilot chute is in (and it's location).. the actual "chute you hand deployed" is the pilot chute -- correct?

That was how I was taught, of course I was taught in Mississippi and everyone knows things are done differently down there

[ifallout 0]

yes i was referring to the hand deployment system as BOC, to differentiate from rip cord types and yes that is bottom of container and the pilot chute is what you put in it.

I used to live in Mississippi, but i got over it.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[howardwhite 6]

"hand deployment system as BOC, to differentiate from rip cord types "

So how would you classify ROL?

HW

[billvon 2,990]

> Perhaps I need to get more familar with my gear as well. I thought
> BOC stood for bottom of container, meaning the POUCH the pilot
>chute is in (and it's location).. the actual "chute you hand deployed"
>is the pilot chute -- correct?

No, you are correct - if anything you are more familiar with your gear than the original poster. BOC refers to a location of a pouch; it can also be ROL (rear of legstrap) front of legstrap or bellyband. Hand deploy refers to the type of deployment system. Other types are ripcord and pullout. The pilot chute exists in all three systems but is slightly different depending on system. "Drouge" chute (sometimes misspelled as drag) is a component on a tandem rig; it does not immediately pull out the main parachute, but is often used to pull it out later. The drouge's primary purpose is to slow a tandem's freefall speed. (Note that the technical term for tandem freefall is 'drougefall.')

This is an example of where you should take what you read here with a grain of salt.

[dida 0]

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"Drouge" chute (sometimes misspelled as drag) is a component on a tandem rig; it does not immediately pull out the main parachute, but is often used to pull it out later. The drouge's primary purpose is to slow a tandem's freefall speed. (Note that the technical term for tandem freefall is 'drougefall.')

sometimes "drogue" is misspelled as "drouge"

spiral out...keep going...

[ifallout 0]

i would have said ROL i am sure... but really that is what it is generally called, don't you agree, and i know that all of them have a pilot chute, heheh that is just funny.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[howardwhite 6]

I guess I would have used the generic term "hand deploy" to differentiate from ripcord. Then one wouldn't have to get into the technicalities of where it's located.

HW

[ifallout 0]

could have... but BOC is what it is refferred to way more often, well where i am, i have never really heard anyone say i got a new rig with a hand deploy.. but then i am sure it is just a little different everywhere.. whatever makes you happy.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[howardwhite 6]

I'm happy, I'm happy.
The glossary in the USPA SIM offers:

PULL OUT: A hand-deployment method of initiating parachute
opening, where the springless pilot chute is packed into
the main container. Pulling a handle first withdraws a container
closing pin and then extracts the pilot chute.
risers and pull the reserve.

HAND-DEPLOYED PILOT CHUTE: The springless pilot
chute used in hand-deployed systems. See PULL OUT and
THROW OUT.

I'm not sure I'd agree with " the springless pilot chute is packed into
the main container" but that's the kind of generic definition I had in mind.

HW

[ifallout 0]

cool for you then... but the mirage with a hand deploy has a springless pilot chute packed into the main container the pin is on the bridal though and you would pull a handle first, releasing the pin from the closing loop and then the pilot chute comes out of the main container... sounds like that is what they are talking about to me.

Bill

have fun, love life, be nice to the humans

[Snowflake 0]

Ok I have to throw in my .02 here

Why was this your first time PLFing? Why did you even attempt to stand-up your first landing? Does a first time jumper have the necessary skills to judge speed and angle? ***

I think PLF landings on student jumps vary. at my DZ students are taught to land on their feet and most of them do. I have also been to Perris where I saw quite few student PLF/buttslide landings So I would have to say that landing on your feet the first time is not luck it's what your taught, and that will vary from DZ to DZ. In my 200+ jumps I've only done one PLF and that was on my first downwind landing.

Also at my DZ all the student canopies are ZP (mostly spectres) which makes it much easier to land.

other then that I think everyone else has covered the mistakes that were made and steps needed to correct them. Remeber this is about keeping you alive not making you look bad

[Snowflake 0]

My first landing I flared high and knew it stopped my flare planed out and then finished the flare and stood it up no run out. I was not a 1 jump wonder so it seems to me that a first jump student can have the skills and training to stand up all their student jumps.