Hooknswoop 19 #26 September 19, 2002 I had a friend suggest setting the audible altimeter below where you intend to break-off, pull and deciscion altitude. His theory was if you set it for the exact altitude you are supposed to do something, you are programed like Pavlov's dogs. Then when the audible doesn't work, you miss the altitude. Set lower, it is only a wake up call if you miss the altitude. The audible is treated as a B/U device, not relied upon for altitude information. I don't rely on my audible for altitude information, it only serves as a wake up call if I screw up. Of course my rpo-Track spends most of it's time on my ankle Food for thought. Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #27 September 19, 2002 I have one of the newer TIME-OUT's...the skinny ones....only a year old or so.....mine will FLAT line....dont ask me why I know this...but I know it does.....but let's just say...today was a fun day....or scary depends how ya look at it.... oh yeah....dont tell the GF....HEHEHEHE.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #28 September 19, 2002 Quote ... Then when the audible doesn't work, you miss the altitude. Set lower, it is only a wake up call if you miss the altitude. The audible is treated as a B/U device, not relied upon for altitude information. I don't rely on my audible for altitude information, it only serves as a wake up call if I screw up. Hook, that raises an interesting point about the use of visual altis over audibles (I am assuming that you normally maintain alti awareness using your visual). Visual altis clearly have an advantage in that they are an analogue display and you can look at one anytime to see how things are going. Whereas audibles are just trigger devices and only tell you when you pass through the three set heights. Visuals are (mostly) mechanical devices anc while not pefect they are exceptionally reliable whereas while audibles are also extremely reliable, the batteries can run out and usually do so on the flightline On the other hand visual altis only give you information if you actually look at them whereas audibles will tell you the information whether you remember or not. Skydiving history is sadly scattered with statistics who were too stressed about their situation to think about looking at the visual. There are pro's and con's to both as individual solutions, and I'm sure we all know people who use only audibles. They may wear visuals but don't actually use them in freefall (although they are still there to look at in a mal situation). Clearly, the choice of using both with audible as a back offers the advantages of both, if you can hear your audible... QuoteOf course my rpo-Track spends most of it's time on my ankle Damn, I wish my hearing was that good! Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #29 September 19, 2002 QuoteIt's worth knowing what the noise sounds like, dunno how you set one off while on the ground though. Anyone? With Protrack you can run a test that sounds all the different alarms. Not sure about the dytter. Check the manual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #30 September 19, 2002 >There are pro's and con's to both as individual solutions . . . To me, the biggest drawback of an audible is that it has no failure indication. This is a huge issue in instrument flight; trusting a broken instrument can get you killed very quickly. A broken visual alti is easy to diagnose; if you look at it twice and it's the same both times it's broken. You cannot determine if an audible is broken or not by listening to it in freefall. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #31 September 19, 2002 Quote>There are pro's and con's to both as individual solutions . . . To me, the biggest drawback of an audible is that it has no failure indication. This is a huge issue in instrument flight; trusting a broken instrument can get you killed very quickly. A broken visual alti is easy to diagnose; if you look at it twice and it's the same both times it's broken. You cannot determine if an audible is broken or not by listening to it in freefall. It's a pretty good clue when the other 9 turn and track and you haven't heard anything. And there's always the ground to look at. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #32 September 19, 2002 Quote>To me, the biggest drawback of an audible is that it has no failure indication. I think most, and certainly my ProTrack and Timeout, beep on the way up to indicate they are working and remind you what height one of the triggers is set too. I accept that an audible could stop working between this point and passing through this height on the way down. Unlikely, but not impossible so it will happen to someone. Wearing two reduces the possibility of double failure to insignificant, but costs more.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #33 September 19, 2002 >It's a pretty good clue when the other 9 turn and track and you >haven't heard anything. And there's always the ground to look at. Unless you're the organizer, and people are waiting for _you_ to leave. Which has happened to me on occasion. I agree that the ground is a better reference than both types of altimeter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #34 September 19, 2002 >Unlikely, but not impossible so it will happen to someone. It has happened to me twice with Protracks. Beeps on the way up (I didn't count them, so I don't know if it made it all the way through the startup) and does not beep on the way down. Afterwards the jump was not recorded. Fortunately I set it for below breakoff, so it was a non-event. >Wearing two reduces the possibility of double failure to insignificant, > but costs more. Using two identical ones is a bad idea, since a design problem (like the one that got the Dutch team some years back) will affect them both the same way. If your plan is to use two, the most reliable backup will use two completely different designs. Looking at the ground is always the most reliable backup method. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #35 September 20, 2002 QuoteIt has happened to me twice with Protracks. Beeps on the way up (I didn't count them, so I don't know if it made it all the way through the startup) and does not beep on the way down. Afterwards the jump was not recorded. This is new information to me, thanks. Do you know how common this is? I haven't heard of it before.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiggs 0 #36 September 20, 2002 You can test the setting on the ground and run through all 3 warnings, from memory its something like keeping the button pushed for 7 seconds or so. It is a real rush of blood to hear a 1500ft warning go off as you are in freefall! Obviously not something that anyone would want to hear. Cheers"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #37 September 20, 2002 QuoteIt is a real rush of blood to hear a 1500ft warning go off as you are in freefall! Obviously not something that anyone would want to hear. I tried out a friend's Time-Out. I took it until it flat-lined, scared the hell out of me. I could almost see the EKG go "flatline" The Pro-Track will catch your attention too. And they have the absolute best customer service I have found anywhere. http://www.l-and-b.dk/ Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #38 September 20, 2002 QuoteUsing two identical ones is a bad idea No doubt!!! I see the "smart" people I know with one Pro Track and one Time Out. Seems like a good plan to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christoofar 0 #39 September 20, 2002 Quote Looking at the ground is always the most reliable backup method. I agree. No matter how many jumps you have, looking at the ground is always your best #1 altimeter and it doesn't lie. If it looks low, feels low, seems low... you ARE low. ____________________________________________________________ I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freebird 0 #40 September 20, 2002 when do you cut away from line twist.*** Hard deck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #41 September 20, 2002 >Do you know how common this is? I don't know. It was not giving the low bat indication, but changing the battery fixed the problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fusedog 0 #42 September 20, 2002 THE SHORT of the long...re: Line Twists Quote (from Hook) [#003366]Links/risers/harness even = canopy flys straight. Links/risers/ harness un-even = canopy spins. Hook [/#003366] ----------- Interestingly enough, I'd just read Hook's dissertation two days ago...and, guess what (no need to guess, 'cause i'll tell ya) -- I LIVED THIS yesterday on an FX-104 (borrowed, of course) -- albeit, no too heavily loaded... saw a single line twist developing as i checked my opening...response was initial PANIC (that's what i call it, anyway) and reflex was to overcorrect -- somehow i did this by shifting my weight in the harness...what ensued was 4, yes FOUR! (seemingly instantaneous) line twists in the opposite direction -- after that split second of "panic" -- i'd recalled what hook had written...applied those words, again shifting my weight in the harness...to level the risers...and, much to my PLEASANT SURPRISE...wow...the shit works...KEWL! RESULT: NO CHOPPIE! 'cause, the spin had ceased, i kicked out of the twists with puh-lenty of time to spare AGAIN, no choppie, 'cause: Links/risers/harness even = canopy flys straight. THANX, DUDE!!! good karma! peace duey i know a little 'bout it... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
