Stalling

[fudd 0]

I've been told I should try and stall my canopy at high altitude to find the stall point. I've done that using both flares and backrisers. However, when it starts to collapse I let the flares/risers up, not letting it collaps. My question is safe to let it completely collaps. Will it catch air again anyway, or do I risk a streamer having to cutaway and hit the silver?
I have a PD190 loaded at 1.1
-fudd

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[freeflyswc 0]

there is a slight risk , i mean think about this scenario Parachute open pull toggles , turns into wad of crap behind you odds are it will open , but there is a slim chance that it wont . i think it's good to find the stall point of a canopy , but i don't think it's nescesary in any situation to collapse it and keep it there

[markbaur 0]

Based on my experience with about 1000 jumps on a PD-210 loaded at about 1.1, if you use toggles to collapse your PD-190 loaded at 1.1, the worst that will happen when you let up quickly is a line twist, and even that is unlikely. (Line twists on highly-loaded canopies are much more likely, and much more serious, though.) The canopy will surge forward when it starts flying again, but you can reduce the surge by letting up slowly.

The canopy will not streamer or turn into a "wad of crap." You might be able to pull down far enough that the ends of the tail meet, creating what looks like a line-over or bowtie -- safe, but scares the heck out of people watching.

Actually, it's kind of fun to find out exactly where the stall point is so you can fly right on the edge: toggles up a couple inches to fly, toggles down a couple inches to stall.

Mark

[christoofar 0]

I've flown a whole approach to the DZ in deep brakes before. It's wicked having almost no wind.

It also helps to practice those braked-turns so you know how to do course corrections while you are landing.

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[Kirils 1]

I wouldn't suggest full rear stalls on an elliptical. There is a risk of it spinning into a ball of crap. I personally don't even want to do full front stalls.
My Xaos might handle it OK, but with my Stiletto or old Heatwave, I would expect problems on recovery. I've stalled a Sabre front & rear without any problems.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[AndyMan 7]

It depends on the canopy. Under a big, slow, square canopy, it's a pretty safe thing. Under a highly loaded eliptical, it's a dumbass who does it.

It comes down to the canopy's succeptability to line twists, as this tends to be the big risk when you do this. Under a big, slow, square canopy it's easy to deal with line twists as long as you've got the altitude to work on it.

I wouldn't recomend trying this under 2000 feet.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[rendezvous 0]

I didn't know you stall a canopy using the front riser too. How is it done ? I thought FR only made the canopy dive with more speed.

[rhino 0]

You can't stall it with front risers.. I think he meant rear toggles and risers..

[billvon 2,989]

>I didn't know you stall a canopy using the front riser too.

Paragliders can be put into a "B-line stall" where the 2nd riser from the front is used to put the canopy in an odd collapse, where the canopy stops flying and goes into a sharp descent. The only skydiving canopy I know of that this would be feasible on would be a Nitron (due to non-cascaded A and B lines.)

[kurt 0]

You can stall a canopywithout any problem. If you do it on a safe altitude. The stall of a canopy, is the same as the opening of the canopy. And yes you can have a malfunction with it. So never to low!!

[franck102 0]

> I've flown a whole approach to the DZ in deep brakes before.
Not a good idea I'm afraid... depending on the wind, the air, the texture of the ground and other things there could be significant gradient coming down (meaning the wind speed could suddenly drop significantly as you approach the ground). If you are flying upwind just above stall speed and the wind suddenly drops, you will get a serious stall.
I have seen gradient collapse paragliders coming down well above stall speed... you safe speed is stall + safety margin + whatever you think the wind may suddenly throw at you.
Franck

[TomAiello 26]

Quote

> I've flown a whole approach to the DZ in deep brakes before.

Not a good idea I'm afraid

I believe (quick profile check) that Chris is jumping a Raven. Based (oooh, horrible pun there) on a couple of hundred approaches on seven cells, in a variety of winds (up to and including 20 mph in a highly turbulent environment), rarely in less than half brakes, I'd say that he doesn't really have much to worry about.

In the scenario you outlined (sudden tail gust while just above the stall point), simply easing up the toggles a bit ought to recover the stall in less than 50 feet (much faster with practice and a 7 cell specifically designed for stall recovery and stability). Even a more panicked reaction (throwing the toggles up hard), should only eat up a bit more altitude (say 100 feet).

I think Chris is doing the right thing by exploring the performance range of his canopy. More practice and knowledge is almost invariably a positive.

-- Tom Aiello

Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com
SnakeRiverBASE.com

[franck102 0]

> In the scenario you outlined (sudden tail gust while just above the stall point), simply easing up the toggles a bit ought to recover the stall in less than 50 feet (much faster with practice and a 7 cell specifically designed for stall recovery and stability).
Good point... as long as you are aware of the fact that you may stall at any time and you know how your chute will behave everything's cool
Franck

[diverds 0]

With your canopy and wing loading you should have no problem. I jump an Icarus FX loaded at 2.2 and a Triatholon loaded at 1.6. The Triatholon I stall on almost every jump just because I enjoy stalls. The Icarus I have only stalled a couple of times to find the stall point and I probably will not do it again as it gets very radical and induces many line twists.

If you have any doubts about your canopy a good rule of thumb would be to never stall it below an altitude that you would be combfortable cutting away from. Hope this helps.

Skydive Radio

[christoofar 0]

Hmm... I don't fly a Raven anymore... wow that profile is old!

I'm flying a SabreII now loaded at 1.1; and yes, when I flew in deep brakes I did it on the Raven most of the time.

On no-wind days, I will generally fly in at 1/2 most of the time so I get a little "extra gas" when I need it. The stall point on my SabreII is about where my hip is, but I don't go down to that point below 1,500 feet AGL.

On landings, I rarely need to get down to the stall point since I like to be surfing "on my tippie toes" on landing and it eats most of that energy and foward drive (just make sure there aren't any rocks or other things to trip on).

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.

[franck102 0]

> I've flown a whole approach to the DZ in deep brakes before
I had taken this to mean that you had landed the canopy like this as well - from the replies I realize that's probably not what you meant. Stalling a non extreme canopy is a lot of fun of course, I do it all the time...
Franck

[christoofar 0]

Quote

> I've flown a whole approach to the DZ in deep brakes before

I had taken this to mean that you had landed the canopy like this as well - from the replies I realize that's probably not what you meant. Stalling a non extreme canopy is a lot of fun of course, I do it all the time...

Franck

No, I flew the approach and the approach legs in deep brakes. I didn't do the landing in deep brakes (well, not until my feet touched the ground).

____________________________________________________________
I'm RICK JAMES! Fo shizzle.