Canopy Collision

[bbarnhouse 0]

A collision occured with a camera flyer and a 4-way team member. It appears that the team member failed to track for the appropriate amount of time causing a mid-air collison with the camera flyer. The camera flyer slid down the left side of the canopy causing a hole in the left end cell and tore 3 lines in said canopy. Both jumpers received minor injuries.
Please read Quade's article on the DZ. home page.
Take care out there.

[quade 4]

What team and who got hurt?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bbarnhouse 0]

Quade~
Please check you PM.
Cheers

[weid14 0]

send me one too?

[hobbes4star 0]

what team????

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[bbarnhouse 0]

A newer team that practices on the weekends or when they can.

[hobbes4star 0]

So secretive it's not the new all girl team is it??

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[bbarnhouse 0]

Yes.

[airgord 1]

I saw the video, the jumper broke off a little earlyand tracked to cameraflyers left, the cameraflyer then pulled about five seconds after when the other three broke and tracked away. The video then shows the canopy from the first jumper about 10:30 level with the cameraflyer and collision was about 2 seconds after that. It was reported that the jumper tracked their usual distance, but did break off a little earlier than usual.
There is plenty left to say about this incident but I am just glad that neither of my friends were hurt.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Gordo~ I got the report directly from the camera flyer, and only the cameraflyer's perspective, I would like to see the video. I'm glad they are both ok too...sure could have been a lot worse.
BB

[hobbes4star 0]

i am glad that no one got hurt seriously. thanks for the info B.

if fun were easy it wouldn't be worth having, right?

[ernokaikkonen 0]

> the cameraflyer then pulled about five seconds after when the
>other three broke and tracked away.

Is this customary? I mean waiting after the breakoff before deploying? We've always told our cameraman to deploy immediately after seeing the wave-off, or someone tracking away, just to ensure that there is vertical separation as well as horizontal. This does put the cameraman under canopy well over 1000m(3300ft), but that shouldn't be a problem now should it?

Anyone care to comment? Quade?

Erno

[DanG 1]

When I film RW, as soon as one person leaves, I dump immediately. When he was new, our team cameraman used to wait a couple of seconds. If the camera guy pulls at the same time as everyone else, your horizontal separation to the next closest canopy is greatly reduced. I talked to our cameraman, and now it is not a problem. Having a 180 off heading opening and flying right at the camera guy is scary.

- Dan G

[weid14 0]

speaking of Maggott.. (ok that was a different thread). you should get him to show you his canopy collision with a fill in videographer. Pretty wild. shreaded a colbat and an alpha pretty good I believe. the camera guy is under his reserve and catches Maggots reserve deployment, then a shoe goes wizzing by.

[quade 4]

The normal sequence that I would recommend for a 4-way team would be for break off at 4,000 with the camera flyer deploying at that time. I go into great detail about the dangers of a 4-way team break off in my article that can be found on the dropzone.com main page right now. This sort of thing will happen even if you brief people on a fairly regular basis. As a camera flyer, you absolutely must be aware that this is a possiblity on every jump.

I can -only- speculate as to what caused this particular incident, but my guess would be that the person that tracked away early -thought- they were lower than they actually were. Perhaps an incorrect Dytter or altimeter setting.

No matter what caused the team member to track off early, it doesn't seem like they got very far away from the center of the formation before deploying.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airgord 1]

The offending jumper tracked early, the cameraflyer was still following the plan when the other three tracked away, if the first jumper had left with the others this incident would not have happened, if the first jumper would have had the forethought to track farther this incident would not have happened but, what did happen is that not all participants followed the plan. Luckily everyone was able to learn from this and I think that all will follow their plan now.

[airgord 1]

I wish I had seen an article like Quades back in '95 when I first started, everyone should read it cameraflyer or not. Thanks Paul.

[quade 4]

Wow. Thank you!

I really do appreciate the compliments when they come from somebody like you.

How's Arizona Evolution going and why the heck isn't your photo loading?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[airgord 1]

Evolution is well and we meet again in Chi-town for a mini camp before 4 way starts, I got permission to shoot for Delirium during 4 way, then back to Evo for 8, 16, and 10 way this will be the first time in 5 years that I will have a full plate for Nats, no slack days for this kid! Speaking of slack, I never submitted a picture for website See you and all the SoCal teams out there. Gordo

[BikerBabe 0]

OK...I was there, on the jump, in the debrief, it was my team. Perhaps I or my teammate should have been the one to post this?

Basically, I agree with Gordo: I'm just glad my friends are both OK.

As for prevention, yes, my teammate left slightly early, and I left less than a second after her. My protrack was beeping, and I double checked it after this happened, and the next day, and it beeped when my altimeter read 4000'. The camera flyer deployed perhaps 4 seconds after my teammate left.

Mistakes were made by both people, and one of the big things I brought away from this incident was to be on your rear risers on opening and to keep situational awareness all the time. My teammate who tracked away had a 180 degree off-heading opening, and the camera flyer opened with a slight left turn.

We heard a million different conflicting opinions that day as to who was or wasn't at fault, and what should have occurred that didn't. We had some camera flyers say it was all my teammate's fault, and others say that the camera flyer should deploy as soon as the first person leaves. So which is right? I personally believe it was a combination of both and no single person carries the entire blame for this incident.

Like I said, I'm just glad they are OK. And that we all learned something.

On another note...you busy enough this year, Gordo? LOL!

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[quade 4]

Quote

We had some camera flyers say it was all my teammate's fault, and others say that the camera flyer should deploy as soon as the first person leaves. So which is right?

The reality is that either way a camera flyer does it, he has the potential to be screwed.

I do know a couple of very old school camera flyers that hang out until well after the team has tracked off and regularly suck it down to 2,000 (or lower) in a concious attempt to avoid the teams.

Personally, I think that's just entirely wrong and so do most other camera flyers I've ever met, but I have a very difficult time argueing with the fact that these guys have been in the game not only far longer than I have, but also probably longer than I will be.

That said, my recommendations as stated previously still apply.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver