AFF

[rhino 0]

A friend of mine is going through AFF. They are teaching her to PLF on landing NOT to land on her feet. I believe they are saying to flare and plf.

To me this sounds ASS backwards? I think landing on your feet is very important. That whole learning to flair the canopy properly thing.

What does everyone think? Is this the norm now?

[fudd 0]

Flaring and doing a PLF is not so bad. Would save a lot of broken ancles.
If you flare perfect there is no need, but many have to try and fail a coupple of times before getting it right. I was adviced to do a PLF my first landings if I did feel insecure about the landing. I am used to falling and landing hard from both snowboarding, karate and aggressive inline skating. Because I'm used to falling, and am well trained and work out, i didn't do PLF's. The exception was a jump when I came down in my reserve. It was a hard high speed landing. The PLF probably saved me a broken bone or two. (When you're used to 240sq/ft canopies, a tiny 170sq/ft reserve flies fast. Specially downwinds.
The moral is that it's better to do a PLF and walk, than to break your ancle and not beeing able to jump for 8 weeks. I've seen to many broken ancles this summer.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Too many jumpers never learn how to PLF for a hard landing. By initially teaching them to PLF, they learn how to do it correctly and will be able to PLF if necessary later on to prevent injury. Also, when first learning, their landings may not be so great, so telling to to PLF on each landing mentally prepares them for the worst and if they happen to flare correctly and set it down softly, then they don't have to PLF. If they are trying to stand it up and land hard w/o PLFing, they may make it worse. Worry first about not being injured and 2nd about stand up landings.

I agree that to demonstrate profeciency with a canopy, your landings should all be stand ups.

Hook

[rhino 0]

Understandable,

So is teaching to PLF during every jump in AFF a standard practice now?

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

As long as they start teaching proper stand up landings after one or two landing I think it's a half-reasonable idea. If they don't and the student downsizes to a quicker canopy, it could be bad. Just my 0.02

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[MarkM 0]

Sounds like kind of a cool idea. I cracked my wrists when I put my hands out during a "real" PLF on my 6th jump or so. We all end up needing to PLF sometime, why not teach it properly on the first couple jumps?

When they show they can PLF, let em stand it up.

[PhreeZone 20]

Its been a major part of every FJC I've been a part of. First its practice falling from standing, then from a foot up.. .then off the picnic table once you show you can PLF properly at the lower stuff.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[rhino 0]

That was part of my aff as well but not ACTUALLY plf'ing on an aff jump.

Like I said.. I was just wondering. It was news to me..

[PhillyKev 0]

One of the AFF level 1 requirements for me was demonstrate a proper plf upon landing. I actually managed to stand up the landing, then faked a PLF so I would pass level 1.

[Stacy 0]

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One of the AFF level 1 requirements for me was demonstrate a proper plf upon landing. I actually managed to stand up the landing, then faked a PLF so I would pass level 1.

I'm telling!!!! Back to AFF for you buddy!!!

[Sebazz1 2]

The new A proficiency card I believe requires the demonstration of an actual PLF on one of your landings. It is a neccesary skill to be able to perform with out a doubt.

I think you may be misunderstanding the instructor or your friend. I am sure that the JM's tell your friend to be prepared to do a PLF at all times but not required for landing. Just common sense. If you can stand STAND! If not PLF.

[skybytch 273]

PLF's are a survival skill and imho should be taught in every first jump course. I don't agree with telling students they must land with a PLF - I was taught and always taught my students to be ready to PLF on every landing approach (feet and knees together, knees slightly bent) but stand it up if they could.

[rhino 0]

No.. I wasn't misunderstanding... I talked to the JM..

If a standup occurs it is deemed an "accident"

[billvon 3,070]

>They are teaching her to PLF on landing NOT to land on her feet. I
> believe they are saying to flare and plf.

That is what I teach as well. On their first jump, they must PLF. After that, once they have a little experience as to what a bad landing vs a good landing feels like, they have the option of standing up or doing a PLF (although they have to _prepare_ to do a PLF.)

[rhino 0]

My first 3 jumps were tandems with perfect landings.. I guess that was a good start. We flared and flared and flared and flared coming down..

I think a hop-n-pop from altitude doing flares and flat turns all the way down would be a great addition to AFF..

[jlmiracle 7]

are they jumping rounds? what size is the canopy? How big is she.

Doing a PLF is a requirement on the A license card.

What I have found, if the student falls down on every jump - they build muscle memory to fall down. I have seen way too many student landings that should have been an easy stand up but the drop to 1 knee because they fell on everyone before that. If they did a tandem, they also have a tendency to lift their legs like they did for landing on their tandem.

Everyone needs to know how to correctly do a PLF.

Unless the JM thinks the likelihood of her getting hurt has increased (usually do to being height and weight disproportionate) she should be standing up or at least giving it a try.

That's my 2 cents on that.

Judy
if you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room.

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[rhino 0]

No.. Squares.. I agree PLF is absolutely necessary.. I just thought saying flare and plf on every landing during aff was giving the wrong "mo jo" where canopy flight is concerned.

[jlmiracle 7]

I agree - it should feet and knees together, I tell them to be ready to PLF (especially when you have a light person and the wind is shifting) flare, flare, flare, and stand up.

I believe if you continue to make them "fall down"
its going to take them longer to stand them up.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[AndyMan 7]

That's how I was taught, to do a PLF on landing. THey didn't teach you to try to stand up. Yes, we were jumping squares.

I actually had a lot of dificulty doing a PLF under a canopy with forward drive. This was a big source of frustration, that I COULDN'T get the PLF down - because I had forward drive!

The first time I needed it... it sure came naturally thoguh!

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[skycat 0]

What kind of canopy is she jumping? There is a huge difference between sabre and a ragged out manta (what I learned on). On that manta, even if I flared perfect I still had a hard landing. Flare to high, ankle burner, flare to low, pound into the ground.

Fly it like you stole it!

[rhino 0]

Not sure.. I'll have to ask her??

[riggerrob 643]

Two points:
First most first-timers flare well enough for a soft landing, but they are so emotionally overwhelmed that they suffer "jelly knees." Half of them are going to fall over on their first landing, so we might as well teach them a graceful way to fall over.
Secondly, sooner or later you are going to have a bad landing that requires a PLF, so you might as well learn PLFs early in the process.
For example, when I had about 1500 jumps, turbulence collapsed half my canopy at 75'. I clamped my knees together, gritted my teeth and pulled the toggles to 3/4. The landing was so hard that I was one big bruise from my left ankle all the way up to my left ear. But the most important point is that I surprised the ground crew by standing up and walking away!

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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So is teaching to PLF during every jump in AFF a standard practice now?

Actually, if you go by the USPA sylabus for your prep, yes, you will have your student demonstrate a couple of PLFs (at least you had better if you are attending the AFF cert course under Billy Rhodes). I will make any non-airborne personnel I teach go out to the tuffet and do PLFs into the pea pit. If they don't know it, I teach them then.

Chuck

[rhino 0]

I know they teach it to you.. MAKING an AFF student do it on jumps was what I was asking? Is that standard practice?

[rendezvous 0]

this question is slightly off this topic but since the point that I want to explore a bit is mentioned here I'll go ahead and ask. Riggerrob you said half your canopy was collapsed. Was it half the volume collapsed but evenly across the canopy or did one side collapse in. If it was the first case
why didn't you just let it fly in full flight just in case it reinflated again. If it was the second case why didn't you apply a toggle input on just one side to keep it from diving may be and rather go for 3/4 brakes. I'm not challenging you or anything. I know you have a ton of experience and I want to hear your comments on how to react when parachutes partially collapse this close to the ground. I remember someone posting here that if the chute collapses this close to the ground just let it fly until it reinflates. Applying breaks will not help. I understand that your case might have been totally different but again some insight would be appreciated.