Sebazz1 2 #1 August 5, 2002 I feel super stupid but I did learn some stuff yesterday. It was a full King Air load. I was a bit crammed up near the pilot with very little mobility. I never had a chance to check my handles. I preach over and over and over to students to own their handles. Well I did not check them because my normal routine of handle checks I always do when preparing to leave the plane was disrupted. Not much of an excuse. Needless to say when I went to pull at 4,000 feet my hackey was not where it was supposed to be. I checked again. Hmmm..not there. So i pulled the reserve handle. Somehow my hackey had gotten jammed halfway into my pouch on the bottom of my container pouch. I don't care how it happened just that I did not check my handles. So um everyone get my drift here.......... CHECK YOUR HANDLES[/B] Thank you and good night Does every one remember this rule: check once ~ check twice ~ pull silver Good Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nws01 0 #2 August 5, 2002 Smart move. Some people wait the rest of their life looking for that handle on the pilot chute. Glad to know you were smart and went for the other handle! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #3 August 5, 2002 "Do as I say, not as I do." Comes to mind... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rendezvous 0 #4 August 5, 2002 Some people wait the rest of their life looking for that handle on the pilot chute LOL ! well put. How true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #5 August 5, 2002 QuoteI feel super stupid but I did learn some stuff yesterday. Don't feel stupid, it has happened to a lot of people, I know 3 of my friends that had the same problem. 2 of them were for bad muscle memory and the other one was cause he packed the hackey inside the BOC (and did it twice). You must always make sure that you packed the hackey with you and didn't left it in the ground HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #6 August 6, 2002 Sebazz, A friend of mine had the same thing happen. He moves his gear around a lot between his DZ and home and his wife had stuffed the pud way in there so it couldn't snag on things. He makes so many jumps each day that he was probably tired and didn't check his handles. He now has over 6,000 jumps so it can happen to the best of jumpers. You did the right thing by not wasting time looking for it. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #7 August 6, 2002 QuoteHe now has over 6,000 jumps so it can happen to the best of jumpers Some people are very complacent though by having so many jumps.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ERICCONNELLY 0 #8 August 6, 2002 So some of you may have heard about my jump last Saturday. For those that haven’t I just wanted to share so that you can learn from my mistake. The dive was a simple three way. I was wearing my “new” camera setup. I did do a thorough gear check before getting on the. One the ride to ‘tude, I was busy making sure everything was good. At 8,000 I turned around to kneel and (this is where my handle must have gotten mashed in) got started getting my camera shit ready. We jumped at 10K, the dive went well and we broke at about 3,500. I tracked and waved and went to pull at 2,500. Reach back and nothing… a quick search and I find the handle and realize it’s pushed into my BOC. A second or two goes by as I try to work it out and my Dytter flatlines. I think OK, better get the reserve and reach for the silver handle. Yank and realize I got the cable. FUCK FUCK FUCK. Look, Reach Pull – BANG. Instant canopy and I’m looking for a place to land now. Landed off, no problems, I’m fine. Lessons learned: 1. Check your handles before you leave. I have always done this. Just forgot this time because, 2. Adding extra stress to your jump can cause you to forget the really important stuff. After turning around on jump run, I was thinking about getting my camera ready, thinking about the jump. I forgot to check my handles and paid the price. Fortunately I got off cheap with a repack and a bottle of JD for Brett (Thanks!) Watching the video shows 7.9 seconds between waveoff and canopy. My Protrack says I was open at 1000’. Shit happens fast on the bottom end. I wasted time trying to fish out the handle and missed the reserve handle on the first try, burning up more altitude. I was able to return to proper emergency procedures (Look Reach Pull) thanks to my practice touches on nearly every jump. Hope this helps someone else, let’s be safe up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #9 August 6, 2002 It does not matter how many jumps you have or how much experience you have. You may do your 6 point check every single time you jump but might miss it just one time and well that will be the one time something happens. It seems to have happened to two people this past weekend. Good story Eric. That is almost exactly what happened to me except I was higher at pull time Just check your handles kids.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dumpster 0 #10 August 7, 2002 I damn near had a similar incident- The week before I had ridden the bike to the DZ, and just wore my rig in my back and put the rest of my stuuf in a duffle on the sissy bar- I kept a close eye on my reserve handle all the way to the DZ and I had shoved the hacky into the pouch so it wouldn't dangle in the breeze - So I get to the DZ and so on and on the plane about two minutes before exit I start going through handle checks - NO HACKY!!! After my heart skipped several beats I dug it out of the pouch and had someone check my main pin also - Whew- Everything else went fine- there is a DAMN GOOD REASON we do handle checks!!! Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #11 August 7, 2002 Good call, Sebazz! Murphy will wait for the ONE time you leave something out to jump in and make things exciting in ways we'd rather not seek excitement. Case in point: I ALWAYS jump my big floppy jumpsuit for doing tandems - recommended by the manufacturer for more flying surface & control of less than perfect student body positions. Well, Saturday my first tandem student got sick on my big floppy suit under canopy. So, I jumped my RW bootie suit on the next one with a 120 pound very athletic woman. Murphy chose this student to put me in my first side-spin. She went into a rigid pike position out the door, grabbing for my left arm (I did NOT let her get it). I stuck to what I was trained . . . wrapped her legs, rolled over like a cat, and got the drogue out in a very close to normal belly-to-earth attitude. The rest of the skydive was same-as-it-ever-was, smiling for the camera. I won't say I will NEVER jump that suit with a student again . . . the lesson here is that I had not had a side-spin in almost 170 tandems. I knew it was coming eventually, though so I was well-prepared. I rehearse my tandem EP's often. Once I get the video digitized I will post it on DiverDriver's website for everyone to use as a training tool if they like. I want to acknowledge Dan Doyle, my Tandem Examiner, for the excellent training, and Bill Morrisey from Strong Enterprises who did extensive test jumps and video on this subject for our benefit. Tandem Masters - if you don;t have a copy, call Strong and get one . . . it will be a great help when your first one comes . . . And yes, I bought cold frosties for eveyone to enjoy that night . . . I knew some of you were wondering.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #12 August 7, 2002 Dumpster, I had a friend back in the 70's who was traveling in his car. He was afraid that he might snag his reserve ripcord handle on something (on his belly reserve). So he put a pack opening band over it so it couldn't open. He later went up to jump (forgetting all about a handle check). He had a malfunction, cut away, and went in because he couldn't open his reserve. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FliegendeWolf 0 #13 August 7, 2002 That gives me chills to think about. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #14 August 7, 2002 All the more reason to check your handles on the ground and before you jump. I'm curious as to why that guy's reserve didn't open though. Despite not having to deal with a cutaway yet in my short skydiving career (I have had two line twists), I'm not all that concerned about my main not working just as long as I know my reserve will function. When I lose faith that the reserves aren't safe, then it's time to do some other sport. Also, I was told by one of my AFF Instructors that reserves are engineered differently and are made to open reliably and get you to the ground in a reasonably safe manner (assuming the wing loading is reasonable). Comments? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #15 August 7, 2002 You probably aren't familiar with older gear which makes all this kind of abstract. The old chest mounted reserves had pack opening bands or bungies to help the container open. I believe the army and smoke jumpers still use this same reserve. At any rate this bands can become unhooked or can easily be unhooked by the jumper. One thing I remember about army jumpmaster school is when rigger checking a jumper to always run your hand behind the rip cord handle to make sure a pack opening band is not over it. There is no way you can pull hard enough on the handle (if a band is over it) to get it to open. Hope this helps. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #16 August 7, 2002 Yes I know nothing about the equipment used in the old days except that the canopies were round and the landings were hard(er). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #17 August 7, 2002 Thanks for sharing, Seb. You at Hollister? Good decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Shark 0 #3 August 5, 2002 "Do as I say, not as I do." Comes to mind... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rendezvous 0 #4 August 5, 2002 Some people wait the rest of their life looking for that handle on the pilot chute LOL ! well put. How true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites drenaline 0 #5 August 5, 2002 QuoteI feel super stupid but I did learn some stuff yesterday. Don't feel stupid, it has happened to a lot of people, I know 3 of my friends that had the same problem. 2 of them were for bad muscle memory and the other one was cause he packed the hackey inside the BOC (and did it twice). You must always make sure that you packed the hackey with you and didn't left it in the ground HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #6 August 6, 2002 Sebazz, A friend of mine had the same thing happen. He moves his gear around a lot between his DZ and home and his wife had stuffed the pud way in there so it couldn't snag on things. He makes so many jumps each day that he was probably tired and didn't check his handles. He now has over 6,000 jumps so it can happen to the best of jumpers. You did the right thing by not wasting time looking for it. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #7 August 6, 2002 QuoteHe now has over 6,000 jumps so it can happen to the best of jumpers Some people are very complacent though by having so many jumps.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ERICCONNELLY 0 #8 August 6, 2002 So some of you may have heard about my jump last Saturday. For those that haven’t I just wanted to share so that you can learn from my mistake. The dive was a simple three way. I was wearing my “new” camera setup. I did do a thorough gear check before getting on the. One the ride to ‘tude, I was busy making sure everything was good. At 8,000 I turned around to kneel and (this is where my handle must have gotten mashed in) got started getting my camera shit ready. We jumped at 10K, the dive went well and we broke at about 3,500. I tracked and waved and went to pull at 2,500. Reach back and nothing… a quick search and I find the handle and realize it’s pushed into my BOC. A second or two goes by as I try to work it out and my Dytter flatlines. I think OK, better get the reserve and reach for the silver handle. Yank and realize I got the cable. FUCK FUCK FUCK. Look, Reach Pull – BANG. Instant canopy and I’m looking for a place to land now. Landed off, no problems, I’m fine. Lessons learned: 1. Check your handles before you leave. I have always done this. Just forgot this time because, 2. Adding extra stress to your jump can cause you to forget the really important stuff. After turning around on jump run, I was thinking about getting my camera ready, thinking about the jump. I forgot to check my handles and paid the price. Fortunately I got off cheap with a repack and a bottle of JD for Brett (Thanks!) Watching the video shows 7.9 seconds between waveoff and canopy. My Protrack says I was open at 1000’. Shit happens fast on the bottom end. I wasted time trying to fish out the handle and missed the reserve handle on the first try, burning up more altitude. I was able to return to proper emergency procedures (Look Reach Pull) thanks to my practice touches on nearly every jump. Hope this helps someone else, let’s be safe up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #9 August 6, 2002 It does not matter how many jumps you have or how much experience you have. You may do your 6 point check every single time you jump but might miss it just one time and well that will be the one time something happens. It seems to have happened to two people this past weekend. Good story Eric. That is almost exactly what happened to me except I was higher at pull time Just check your handles kids.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dumpster 0 #10 August 7, 2002 I damn near had a similar incident- The week before I had ridden the bike to the DZ, and just wore my rig in my back and put the rest of my stuuf in a duffle on the sissy bar- I kept a close eye on my reserve handle all the way to the DZ and I had shoved the hacky into the pouch so it wouldn't dangle in the breeze - So I get to the DZ and so on and on the plane about two minutes before exit I start going through handle checks - NO HACKY!!! After my heart skipped several beats I dug it out of the pouch and had someone check my main pin also - Whew- Everything else went fine- there is a DAMN GOOD REASON we do handle checks!!! Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slotperfect 7 #11 August 7, 2002 Good call, Sebazz! Murphy will wait for the ONE time you leave something out to jump in and make things exciting in ways we'd rather not seek excitement. Case in point: I ALWAYS jump my big floppy jumpsuit for doing tandems - recommended by the manufacturer for more flying surface & control of less than perfect student body positions. Well, Saturday my first tandem student got sick on my big floppy suit under canopy. So, I jumped my RW bootie suit on the next one with a 120 pound very athletic woman. Murphy chose this student to put me in my first side-spin. She went into a rigid pike position out the door, grabbing for my left arm (I did NOT let her get it). I stuck to what I was trained . . . wrapped her legs, rolled over like a cat, and got the drogue out in a very close to normal belly-to-earth attitude. The rest of the skydive was same-as-it-ever-was, smiling for the camera. I won't say I will NEVER jump that suit with a student again . . . the lesson here is that I had not had a side-spin in almost 170 tandems. I knew it was coming eventually, though so I was well-prepared. I rehearse my tandem EP's often. Once I get the video digitized I will post it on DiverDriver's website for everyone to use as a training tool if they like. I want to acknowledge Dan Doyle, my Tandem Examiner, for the excellent training, and Bill Morrisey from Strong Enterprises who did extensive test jumps and video on this subject for our benefit. Tandem Masters - if you don;t have a copy, call Strong and get one . . . it will be a great help when your first one comes . . . And yes, I bought cold frosties for eveyone to enjoy that night . . . I knew some of you were wondering.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #12 August 7, 2002 Dumpster, I had a friend back in the 70's who was traveling in his car. He was afraid that he might snag his reserve ripcord handle on something (on his belly reserve). So he put a pack opening band over it so it couldn't open. He later went up to jump (forgetting all about a handle check). He had a malfunction, cut away, and went in because he couldn't open his reserve. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FliegendeWolf 0 #13 August 7, 2002 That gives me chills to think about. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #14 August 7, 2002 All the more reason to check your handles on the ground and before you jump. I'm curious as to why that guy's reserve didn't open though. Despite not having to deal with a cutaway yet in my short skydiving career (I have had two line twists), I'm not all that concerned about my main not working just as long as I know my reserve will function. When I lose faith that the reserves aren't safe, then it's time to do some other sport. Also, I was told by one of my AFF Instructors that reserves are engineered differently and are made to open reliably and get you to the ground in a reasonably safe manner (assuming the wing loading is reasonable). Comments? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #15 August 7, 2002 You probably aren't familiar with older gear which makes all this kind of abstract. The old chest mounted reserves had pack opening bands or bungies to help the container open. I believe the army and smoke jumpers still use this same reserve. At any rate this bands can become unhooked or can easily be unhooked by the jumper. One thing I remember about army jumpmaster school is when rigger checking a jumper to always run your hand behind the rip cord handle to make sure a pack opening band is not over it. There is no way you can pull hard enough on the handle (if a band is over it) to get it to open. Hope this helps. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites CanuckInUSA 0 #16 August 7, 2002 Yes I know nothing about the equipment used in the old days except that the canopies were round and the landings were hard(er). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Deuce 1 #17 August 7, 2002 Thanks for sharing, Seb. You at Hollister? Good decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
rendezvous 0 #4 August 5, 2002 Some people wait the rest of their life looking for that handle on the pilot chute LOL ! well put. How true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #5 August 5, 2002 QuoteI feel super stupid but I did learn some stuff yesterday. Don't feel stupid, it has happened to a lot of people, I know 3 of my friends that had the same problem. 2 of them were for bad muscle memory and the other one was cause he packed the hackey inside the BOC (and did it twice). You must always make sure that you packed the hackey with you and didn't left it in the ground HISPA 21 www.panamafreefall.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #6 August 6, 2002 Sebazz, A friend of mine had the same thing happen. He moves his gear around a lot between his DZ and home and his wife had stuffed the pud way in there so it couldn't snag on things. He makes so many jumps each day that he was probably tired and didn't check his handles. He now has over 6,000 jumps so it can happen to the best of jumpers. You did the right thing by not wasting time looking for it. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #7 August 6, 2002 QuoteHe now has over 6,000 jumps so it can happen to the best of jumpers Some people are very complacent though by having so many jumps.____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ERICCONNELLY 0 #8 August 6, 2002 So some of you may have heard about my jump last Saturday. For those that haven’t I just wanted to share so that you can learn from my mistake. The dive was a simple three way. I was wearing my “new” camera setup. I did do a thorough gear check before getting on the. One the ride to ‘tude, I was busy making sure everything was good. At 8,000 I turned around to kneel and (this is where my handle must have gotten mashed in) got started getting my camera shit ready. We jumped at 10K, the dive went well and we broke at about 3,500. I tracked and waved and went to pull at 2,500. Reach back and nothing… a quick search and I find the handle and realize it’s pushed into my BOC. A second or two goes by as I try to work it out and my Dytter flatlines. I think OK, better get the reserve and reach for the silver handle. Yank and realize I got the cable. FUCK FUCK FUCK. Look, Reach Pull – BANG. Instant canopy and I’m looking for a place to land now. Landed off, no problems, I’m fine. Lessons learned: 1. Check your handles before you leave. I have always done this. Just forgot this time because, 2. Adding extra stress to your jump can cause you to forget the really important stuff. After turning around on jump run, I was thinking about getting my camera ready, thinking about the jump. I forgot to check my handles and paid the price. Fortunately I got off cheap with a repack and a bottle of JD for Brett (Thanks!) Watching the video shows 7.9 seconds between waveoff and canopy. My Protrack says I was open at 1000’. Shit happens fast on the bottom end. I wasted time trying to fish out the handle and missed the reserve handle on the first try, burning up more altitude. I was able to return to proper emergency procedures (Look Reach Pull) thanks to my practice touches on nearly every jump. Hope this helps someone else, let’s be safe up there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #9 August 6, 2002 It does not matter how many jumps you have or how much experience you have. You may do your 6 point check every single time you jump but might miss it just one time and well that will be the one time something happens. It seems to have happened to two people this past weekend. Good story Eric. That is almost exactly what happened to me except I was higher at pull time Just check your handles kids.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #10 August 7, 2002 I damn near had a similar incident- The week before I had ridden the bike to the DZ, and just wore my rig in my back and put the rest of my stuuf in a duffle on the sissy bar- I kept a close eye on my reserve handle all the way to the DZ and I had shoved the hacky into the pouch so it wouldn't dangle in the breeze - So I get to the DZ and so on and on the plane about two minutes before exit I start going through handle checks - NO HACKY!!! After my heart skipped several beats I dug it out of the pouch and had someone check my main pin also - Whew- Everything else went fine- there is a DAMN GOOD REASON we do handle checks!!! Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #11 August 7, 2002 Good call, Sebazz! Murphy will wait for the ONE time you leave something out to jump in and make things exciting in ways we'd rather not seek excitement. Case in point: I ALWAYS jump my big floppy jumpsuit for doing tandems - recommended by the manufacturer for more flying surface & control of less than perfect student body positions. Well, Saturday my first tandem student got sick on my big floppy suit under canopy. So, I jumped my RW bootie suit on the next one with a 120 pound very athletic woman. Murphy chose this student to put me in my first side-spin. She went into a rigid pike position out the door, grabbing for my left arm (I did NOT let her get it). I stuck to what I was trained . . . wrapped her legs, rolled over like a cat, and got the drogue out in a very close to normal belly-to-earth attitude. The rest of the skydive was same-as-it-ever-was, smiling for the camera. I won't say I will NEVER jump that suit with a student again . . . the lesson here is that I had not had a side-spin in almost 170 tandems. I knew it was coming eventually, though so I was well-prepared. I rehearse my tandem EP's often. Once I get the video digitized I will post it on DiverDriver's website for everyone to use as a training tool if they like. I want to acknowledge Dan Doyle, my Tandem Examiner, for the excellent training, and Bill Morrisey from Strong Enterprises who did extensive test jumps and video on this subject for our benefit. Tandem Masters - if you don;t have a copy, call Strong and get one . . . it will be a great help when your first one comes . . . And yes, I bought cold frosties for eveyone to enjoy that night . . . I knew some of you were wondering.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #12 August 7, 2002 Dumpster, I had a friend back in the 70's who was traveling in his car. He was afraid that he might snag his reserve ripcord handle on something (on his belly reserve). So he put a pack opening band over it so it couldn't open. He later went up to jump (forgetting all about a handle check). He had a malfunction, cut away, and went in because he couldn't open his reserve. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #13 August 7, 2002 That gives me chills to think about. A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #14 August 7, 2002 All the more reason to check your handles on the ground and before you jump. I'm curious as to why that guy's reserve didn't open though. Despite not having to deal with a cutaway yet in my short skydiving career (I have had two line twists), I'm not all that concerned about my main not working just as long as I know my reserve will function. When I lose faith that the reserves aren't safe, then it's time to do some other sport. Also, I was told by one of my AFF Instructors that reserves are engineered differently and are made to open reliably and get you to the ground in a reasonably safe manner (assuming the wing loading is reasonable). Comments? Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #15 August 7, 2002 You probably aren't familiar with older gear which makes all this kind of abstract. The old chest mounted reserves had pack opening bands or bungies to help the container open. I believe the army and smoke jumpers still use this same reserve. At any rate this bands can become unhooked or can easily be unhooked by the jumper. One thing I remember about army jumpmaster school is when rigger checking a jumper to always run your hand behind the rip cord handle to make sure a pack opening band is not over it. There is no way you can pull hard enough on the handle (if a band is over it) to get it to open. Hope this helps. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #16 August 7, 2002 Yes I know nothing about the equipment used in the old days except that the canopies were round and the landings were hard(er). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #17 August 7, 2002 Thanks for sharing, Seb. You at Hollister? Good decision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
