lummy 4
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tombuch 0
QuoteQuoteand every six months if used on a main.
Why would someone want to do this? hook an AAD up to a main, I mean. How would you even hook it up? Wouldn't the PC have to be some type of spring loading or something?
Umm, yes, you would need a spring loaded pilot chute. In the olden days (like about 5 years ago) all student mains had spring loaded pilot chutes and ripcords. Hand deploy pilot chutes for students are a "new" concept. If you travel a bit you will probably find many dropzones still using ripcords and springs for students.
Very few experienced jumpers use spring loaded pilot chutes with ripcords these days, but again, if you travel a bit, you will find a couple of old timers around the country who stick to the classic gear.
Using an AAD on a main has become very rare. I think the military does it in some cases, and I have heard of one or two regular DZ's that put an AAD on the main, mostly as a marketing tool, I suspect. So, it can happen, and I imagine there may be a few special cases where you might want to add an AAD to the main ( a blind student, perhaps), but it is rare.
Your question is interesting and shows some thought. As I was reading the FXC technical papers I smiled when I saw the reference to a main parachute installation 'cause it is such an odd concept in the civilian world in 2002.
-tom buchanan
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy
riggerrob 643
Dear lummy,
AADS on mains may be "old school", but that is the way some schools prefer to operate. And yes, you do need spring-loaded main pilotchutes and main ripcords if you use main AADs
Frankly, compared with the malfunction rate on static-lined old round canopies, equipping students with AADs and ripcords on their mains was more reliable.
The Australians have been using AADs (KAP3 or FXC 12000) on student mains sucessfully for decades, but they don't use reserve AADs.
Ripcord deployed mains stuck around far longer for students, long after licensed jumpers discarded them. By 1979, I concluded that main ripcords were dumb, but it took the training establishment a long time to catch up. I had to laugh about how AFF instructors bad-mouthed hand-deploy pilotchutes for decades, then tripped over each other in converting to BOC.
For example, when I worked at Rigging Innovations, we built hundreds of Telesis containers for the US Air Force Academy, all with (FXC 12000) AADs on the mains. This configuration also included spring-loaded main pilotchutes and main ripcords.
That configuration was heavy, complex and difficult to pack, but it worked.
R.I. also built a few Telesis with (FXC 12000) AADs and extra ripcords on the lower left corner of the container. That configuration was a packers' nightmare!
AADS on mains may be "old school", but that is the way some schools prefer to operate. And yes, you do need spring-loaded main pilotchutes and main ripcords if you use main AADs
Frankly, compared with the malfunction rate on static-lined old round canopies, equipping students with AADs and ripcords on their mains was more reliable.
The Australians have been using AADs (KAP3 or FXC 12000) on student mains sucessfully for decades, but they don't use reserve AADs.
Ripcord deployed mains stuck around far longer for students, long after licensed jumpers discarded them. By 1979, I concluded that main ripcords were dumb, but it took the training establishment a long time to catch up. I had to laugh about how AFF instructors bad-mouthed hand-deploy pilotchutes for decades, then tripped over each other in converting to BOC.
For example, when I worked at Rigging Innovations, we built hundreds of Telesis containers for the US Air Force Academy, all with (FXC 12000) AADs on the mains. This configuration also included spring-loaded main pilotchutes and main ripcords.
That configuration was heavy, complex and difficult to pack, but it worked.
R.I. also built a few Telesis with (FXC 12000) AADs and extra ripcords on the lower left corner of the container. That configuration was a packers' nightmare!
tombuch 0
QuoteI had to laugh about how AFF instructors bad-mouthed hand-deploy pilotchutes for decades, then tripped over each other in converting to BOC.
AFF instructors hated the idea of being in freefall with a student who was using a hand deploy pilot chute that could only be deployed from one side. It was a very valid fear. Once the BOC system with a two sided releaseable pocket was developed it became a reasonable system to use. But of course it needed to be proved for a bit with documentation (thanks Skydive Chicago) before we were willing to use it with real students.
The concern of AFF instructors was reasonable given the kind of equipment and pocket configuration that was available.
Tom Buchanan
Sr. Rigger
Instructor (AFF, SL, IAD, Tandem)
etc.
Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy
jbrasher 1
Up until less than 2 years ago Perris Valley used FXCs on the main and Cypri (Riggerrob went thru this a few months ago
) on the reserves of all their student rigs. At the time I think the Air force Academy was the only other 'school' which used double AADs.
Just a thought, every skydiver I know uses a ripcord and a string loaded pilotchute; think about it.
Red, White and Blue Skies,
John T. Brasher D-5166
) on the reserves of all their student rigs. At the time I think the Air force Academy was the only other 'school' which used double AADs.
Just a thought, every skydiver I know uses a ripcord and a string loaded pilotchute; think about it.
Red, White and Blue Skies,
John T. Brasher D-5166
AndyMan 7
QuoteAt the time I think the Air force Academy was the only other 'school' which used double AADs.
I believe Skydive Toronto (new lowell) is still using dual FXC's on their student gear.
_Am
__
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.
lummy 4
Thanks for all the responses guys n gals. I definitely learned something today, hope some others did too :)
I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1
Motab 0
Yeah, the DZ that I learned at used FXC's on the mains... and I just finished AFF a couple months ago. They were of course on ripcord spring-loaded mains. They said that part of the reason was because we're trained to pull that first ripcord first, so in order to simplify the muscle memory, I guess if we get low, they think that this would minimize the chance of having 2 out. That's what I recall anyway... I could have misinterpreted.
I'm not not licking toads....
Scoby 0
Y'know, I was about to write back something like, "Gee, that's what they told me at my DZ too." Then I noticed who wrote it... I always meant to ask how many times a student actually had their FXC fire. I suspect it can't be a large number.
skybytch 273
QuoteI always meant to ask how many times a student actually had their FXC fire. I suspect it can't be a large number.
Happened to me on my eighth jump. I was pulling the main ripcord as the FXC fired. This was on gear that had no AAD on the reserve, an FXC 12000 on the main and a spring loaded main p/c. The AAD did it's job; I was late with my pull. Failed that level, dammit.
It was pretty common when I was packing student rigs (1991-1995) to have to "re-cock" the FXC. Most times the student never knew the AAD had fired because they were in the process of pulling as it went off, but there were a few times where it either fired high or fired because the student lost altitude awareness and never pulled.
In the days BC (Before Cypres), lots of dz's put students out on rigs equipped with only an FXC on the main and no AAD on the reserve. The rigs were equipped with RSL's. Theory was that the AAD would pull the main if needed; if the student had to cutaway the RSL would take care of pulling the reserve if the student didn't.
tombuch 0
In the days BC (Before Cypres), lots of dz's put students out on rigs equipped with only an FXC or Sentinel on the main and no AAD on the reserve. The rigs were equipped with RSL's.
Quote
Sentinel on the main? Didn't that AAD require a new cartridge every time it fired? Must have been expensive, eh?
Tom Buchanan
Old Instructor (SL, IAD, AFF, Tandem)
skybytch 273
Doh! I'm just misspeaking left and right tonight. Okay, going to go edit that post right now to read "with only an FXC on the main and no AAD on the reserve." Then I'm gonna grab another beer and close the forums for the evening....
Thanks for the correction.
Thanks for the correction.
jumpy 0
i'm still a student in oz and at my dz the student rigs are ripcord and springloaded pilot chutes with an FXC on the main... the number of times the things fired it would be highly infeasable to put it one the reserve cos of how long it takes to repack and not being able to be packed straight away.
i've been told that with an AAD you get 2 chances...2 fires and at the least i suspect they would keep you on student status for a little longer
i've been told that with an AAD you get 2 chances...2 fires and at the least i suspect they would keep you on student status for a little longer
>(...)FXC on the main... the number of times the things fired it
> would be highly infeasable to put it one the reserve cos of how
> long it takes to repack and not being able to be packed straight
>away.
Huh? All student rigs on my DZ have FXC:s in them. I don't recall a single incident when an FXC would have fired prematurely(on my DZ, that is). Re-cocking an FXC is a routine thing to do, maybe once a month a student pulls too low and the FXC needs to be re-cocked. It doesn't even necessitate a full reserve repack; just open the container, re-cock the fxc and close the container.
And a reserve repack takes less than an hour when done by an experienced packer. And two hours or more when done by me
Erno
> would be highly infeasable to put it one the reserve cos of how
> long it takes to repack and not being able to be packed straight
>away.
Huh? All student rigs on my DZ have FXC:s in them. I don't recall a single incident when an FXC would have fired prematurely(on my DZ, that is). Re-cocking an FXC is a routine thing to do, maybe once a month a student pulls too low and the FXC needs to be re-cocked. It doesn't even necessitate a full reserve repack; just open the container, re-cock the fxc and close the container.
And a reserve repack takes less than an hour when done by an experienced packer. And two hours or more when done by me
Erno
Jiggs 0
He meant if it was on the reserve.
"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain."
"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
"In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus
>He meant if it was on the reserve.
So did I
Erno
So did I
Erno
Why would someone want to do this? hook an AAD up to a main, I mean. How would you even hook it up? Wouldn't the PC have to be some type of spring loading or something?
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