jimmytavino 16 #26 September 15, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuotemy paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landing . I always landed mine this way. Just reach up as high as you could on the back risers and do a chinup at flare time. It usually worked well. ......Steve1 I made 1050 jumps on the French Papillon,,( actually 3 different Fr. Paps ) ( a round, like the PC.. but with better "sink" characteristics,,,,, for shooting accuracy) but...... I used to take this technique a step further,, if it was windy and while facing into the wind,,,,,, we were STILL backing up......I would grab my rear risers,,, but would cross my arms,,, over my head,, and get my left riser w/ my right hand, and my right riser w/ my left hand, and then torque around ,,,180 degrees just at touch down,,by straightening out my arms, as I "chinned myself", so that while my canopy was still " backing up" I was landing facing "forward,",, and then would "run out the landing"......hahaha worked 6 times out of 10 !!. .. Ah..... youthful enthusiasm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #27 September 15, 2003 The reserve risers came off the Express since people removed the mud flaps. Unfortuantally the mudflaps held stitching that kept the reserve risers on the container. For those people that never removed the stitching they were'nt ever in any danger from that issue.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #28 September 15, 2003 Quote At your size that had to be a big OUCH. *** Yeah, it was the first time I had to look around the slider to see if I actually had an open parachute! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mccurley 1 #29 September 27, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuote I woun't know, I am not old enough to remember "Satety Stars". lol I do know they were only about 180 sq. ft. Ouch *** I jumped a 'safety flier' ONCE as a main I'd always thought 64 was the first commercial release of the PC After much begging (whining) I was allowed to jump a club PC back inJuly 74 on my 18th jump, it was heaven, you feel the "G" forces in a spiral, and you could cover so much more ground!!! I then moved on to a Niagara Parachutes Cobra which was a version of a PS06 (faster flying) First square reserve ride was on a Safty Flyer after blowing 4 lines off of my 252. Standup landing beside the peas impressed the hell out of my static line students! That dec 84 in Toogoolawa Australia.Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #30 September 28, 2003 QuoteMy one round jump was on a Comp PC 3 weeks ago. They land hard The Comp PC was designed for competition accuracy and had larger vents and holes than the standard MK I model. They could land with a thump, but were meant to thump in pea gravel. A little practice would help you to figure out the landings. I had one of the original 1964 r/w/b PC's, I think I paid $150 bucks for it and was probably the 5th or 6th person to own it. I loved my PC. The landings were so soft that I switched over from French boots to sneakers and never went back (except in the wintertime, when the boots were warmer and better suited to walking through snow). Just give the back risers a good tug and if it wasn't tooo windy the stand up took care of itself. Did all the accuracy requirements for my C and D licenses with a PC and no, I didn't even have to downwind it. They were just different from squares. Much as I love squares, I'm so very fond of that old PC when I think of it. they opened quickly and softly, had decent drive for a decent spot, snappy response to the toggles and just looked beautiful. On the downside, they were bulky, weighed about half a ton (2.2 oz taffeta matl), and were a BITCH to pack. But I never had a malfunction with a PC, never. Which is more than I can say for squares... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #31 September 29, 2003 QuotePointer's manuals have it as Early models (1964-66). The Mark II was introduced in 1969. The Mark I's proformance numbers: Glide Angle: 53 degrees Opening time (283 lbs total): Zero Velocity : 5.1 seconds 150 knots: 1.8 seconds Distance: Twisted lines: 186 feet Zero velocity: 321' 110 kts: 115' 150 kts: 41' Forward speed (with 200 lbs): 14 mph Decent Rate (with 200 lbs): 16 feet per second The Comp model has lines shortened by 42 inches and more steering vents. Geez! 16 feet per second......... hence the need for a good PLF Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #32 September 29, 2003 Quote The PC was on the market by April 1964,Pioneer was testing them in 62/63.Got mine 6/64 and have over 4000 jumps on them. Have you been injured jumping Paracommanders? Yves. QuotePointer's manuals have it as Early models (1964-66). The Mark II was introduced in 1969. The Mark I's proformance numbers: Glide Angle: 53 degrees Opening time (283 lbs total): Zero Velocity : 5.1 seconds 150 knots: 1.8 seconds Distance: Twisted lines: 186 feet Zero velocity: 321' 110 kts: 115' 150 kts: 41' Forward speed (with 200 lbs): 14 mph Decent Rate (with 200 lbs): 16 feet per second The Comp model has lines shortened by 42 inches and more steering vents.*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #33 September 29, 2003 QuoteBack in the late 70's you were required to have 100 jumps under a round canopy before you were allowed to jump a square. I had 50 jumps under a 10 with front mounted reserve and 50 under a Paracommander. my paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landing I remember reading a book about the first square canopies. They were said to open.... "hard". A quick look at the picture, revealed that there was "NO SLIDER" on the setup...... Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #34 September 29, 2003 I would grab my rear risers,,, but would cross my arms,,, over my head,, and get my left riser w/ my right hand, and my right riser w/ my left hand, and then torque around ,,,180 degrees just at touch down,,by straightening out my arms, as I "chinned myself", so that while my canopy was still " backing up" I was landing facing "forward,",, and then would "run out the landing"......hahaha worked 6 times out of 10 !!. .. Ah..... youthful enthusiasm Sounds like a great way to land on a windy day. (I've got a couple jumps on a papillon.) I hated doing rear PLF's. Most of mine were feet, rear, and then head (on windy days). I used to experiment with a type of hook turn back in the 70's. If you hooked a para-commander into the wind just right, you wouldn't end up backing up. If you were late, landings were brutally hard, but it was still almost better than backing up. Thank god for French Paraboots......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #35 September 29, 2003 QuoteI hated doing rear PLF's ....your description of them is right on!.helmets were Hard then, for that reason..... QuoteI used to experiment with a type of hook turn back in the 70's. If you hooked a para-commander into the wind just right, you wouldn't end up backing up. I had sort of forgotten about that steve1...yes... with the momentum from that "spirally " turn ,, if you timed it right,, you you could dig into the wind just enough to , "stick the landing"...hahahaha.. but then... better open one of those shot and a halves, and get ready to lose a riser.. ( One of the Carl Boenish Films.. Either Sky Capers or Masters of the Sky,,, has a demo landing sequence where the jumper does JUST THAT,, on a paved parking lot.... with all the flags on the ground ,,,, Whipping ~ ~!!!!! in the wind...)..hahahaha.. and sure,, paraboots were S.O.P. . ... .. ... and as tbrown recalls,,,they let ya' keep jumpin' in the winter...and.... Floating to the ground on a still winter day,, after a sucessful 4 way, under a silent canopy, with some friends flying alongside you,,,,,the cold sun bright in a solid blue sky,, and fresh snow everywhere,, except for the runway....is a memory easily forgotten... thanks for bringing it back today ... makes me wish I had video camera(s) during the PC Days.....safe skydives bro's... and "don't forget to hook up the bungees!!!!!!! jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #36 September 29, 2003 Quote ( One of the Carl Boenish Films.. Either Sky Capers or Masters of the Sky,,, has a demo landing sequence I recall that scene.......The scene that really sticks in my mind though is of the two-way hookup tearing it's way through someone's canopy. I'd love to see that movie again. It's been about 30 years since I last viewed it. I'd also love to jump a PC again. Everyone thinks I'm nuts for wanting to, but just for old time's sake. I've still got my old Frenchies. You never know, I might need them again. I may even get out my old motorcycle helmet. portia goggles, and baggy jump suit (complete with bell-bottom sleeves and legs)......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #37 September 29, 2003 I've jumped pcs lots for fun, although I actually started on sierras - which were a lite-weight copy of a pc, I believe... What I remember impressed me most was the silence on those first few jumps after the plane flew away from me... It was like being in church on a sunday morning... This contrasted with the noise from the wind when I released the brakes on my first square (stratostar) jump and watched the canopy dive down in front of me... Never really captured the feeling of releasing the brakes like that again....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tonybrogdon 0 #38 September 30, 2003 You are right no slider. They were orginally designed for a sleave not a bag with a spring loaded pilot chute and front mounted reserve.Tony Brogdon D-12855 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #39 October 4, 2003 Never broke any bones,just the useral bumps,bruses,and sprains,mostly from down wind landing in comps.Had several malfunctions on the PC.The ram airs are less malfunction prone since the invention of the slider.PC's have softer opening shock than a square.Every body shortened PC lines at least 24"by 1966!! For faster/stable turns and less malfunctions.Most of my PC jumps were on a deployment bag not a sleve.POP D-47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #40 October 4, 2003 Of all the chutes I've jumped, I liked the Para Commander best. I have had several, one which was prone to have a malfunction every so often, especially when I packed a 16mm movie camera in the apex pointing down. My black and Gold PC was the best. I would field pack it overnight, and with two pilot chutes, I could go as low as I wished and get a good solid opening., every time. I wish I still had it, and dont even know what I did with it. Ram airs are nice and fly better, but the ole PC was a lot more fun to jump. I never shortened the lines on mine, and seldom had to do a PLF as Standup landings were easy with the PC. Bill Cole D-41 Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tuffjump 0 #41 May 13, 2011 QuoteBack in the late 70's you were required to have 100 jumps under a round canopy before you were allowed to jump a square. I had 50 jumps under a 10 with front mounted reserve and 50 under a Paracommander. my paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landingMade my first square jump on a Parasled in Delray Beach Oct 1973 it was my 73rd Jump. Bought my first square Dec 1973 it was a Babyplane it was the hardest canopy opening I ever experenced. I'd pull, grab my belly reserve and hold on tight. Lost the canopy after a cut away......best thing that coulda happened.lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #42 May 14, 2011 great memories indeed, Jimmy. the silence, peace, beauty on those PC's. in Oklahoma we opened way upwind, backed up rapidly towards the airport, turned a 180 to run into the landing area, followed by a 180 hook turn to a very soft standup (sometimes cutting away one capewell, indeed !! it all sounds funny but we thought it was all normal procedure,, ha ha !!!! Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #43 May 14, 2011 PC's were indeed pretty reliable.. some guys seemed to have PC's that would malfunction periodically, maybe it wasnt the canopy, you know? but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, for me it was T-10's ! ouch, some hard landings in the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #44 May 14, 2011 the early squares had a pilot chute controlled reefing system, most of them. Clouds opened not too horribly hard... then Strato Stars opened quite nicely... with a big long bridle cord that you young folks wouldnt believe !!!! ha ha !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #45 May 14, 2011 inspired you ? what about Ripcord TV show ??? it was great, in it's day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #46 May 14, 2011 That was Dean McLaughlin's rather tight DZ, right. There was a neat bar just down the street. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #47 May 16, 2011 Quote but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, I have trouble labelling a para-commander, as just another round canopy. They were way better than the old "rag" canopies. In fact they were considered the hot canopy to own, in the early 70's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #48 May 16, 2011 Quote Quote but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, I have trouble labelling a para-commander, as just another round canopy. They were way better than the old "rag" canopies. In fact they were considered the hot canopy to own, in the early 70's. They were the Impala, the rags were a Biscayne and if ya wanted a Caprice...go Papillion! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,444 #49 May 16, 2011 Would that make the Piglet a VW Beetle? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #50 May 16, 2011 My first PC felt like I was blasting around the skyPlease don't dent the planet. 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mccurley 1 #29 September 27, 2003 QuoteQuoteQuote I woun't know, I am not old enough to remember "Satety Stars". lol I do know they were only about 180 sq. ft. Ouch *** I jumped a 'safety flier' ONCE as a main I'd always thought 64 was the first commercial release of the PC After much begging (whining) I was allowed to jump a club PC back inJuly 74 on my 18th jump, it was heaven, you feel the "G" forces in a spiral, and you could cover so much more ground!!! I then moved on to a Niagara Parachutes Cobra which was a version of a PS06 (faster flying) First square reserve ride was on a Safty Flyer after blowing 4 lines off of my 252. Standup landing beside the peas impressed the hell out of my static line students! That dec 84 in Toogoolawa Australia.Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #30 September 28, 2003 QuoteMy one round jump was on a Comp PC 3 weeks ago. They land hard The Comp PC was designed for competition accuracy and had larger vents and holes than the standard MK I model. They could land with a thump, but were meant to thump in pea gravel. A little practice would help you to figure out the landings. I had one of the original 1964 r/w/b PC's, I think I paid $150 bucks for it and was probably the 5th or 6th person to own it. I loved my PC. The landings were so soft that I switched over from French boots to sneakers and never went back (except in the wintertime, when the boots were warmer and better suited to walking through snow). Just give the back risers a good tug and if it wasn't tooo windy the stand up took care of itself. Did all the accuracy requirements for my C and D licenses with a PC and no, I didn't even have to downwind it. They were just different from squares. Much as I love squares, I'm so very fond of that old PC when I think of it. they opened quickly and softly, had decent drive for a decent spot, snappy response to the toggles and just looked beautiful. On the downside, they were bulky, weighed about half a ton (2.2 oz taffeta matl), and were a BITCH to pack. But I never had a malfunction with a PC, never. Which is more than I can say for squares... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #31 September 29, 2003 QuotePointer's manuals have it as Early models (1964-66). The Mark II was introduced in 1969. The Mark I's proformance numbers: Glide Angle: 53 degrees Opening time (283 lbs total): Zero Velocity : 5.1 seconds 150 knots: 1.8 seconds Distance: Twisted lines: 186 feet Zero velocity: 321' 110 kts: 115' 150 kts: 41' Forward speed (with 200 lbs): 14 mph Decent Rate (with 200 lbs): 16 feet per second The Comp model has lines shortened by 42 inches and more steering vents. Geez! 16 feet per second......... hence the need for a good PLF Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #32 September 29, 2003 Quote The PC was on the market by April 1964,Pioneer was testing them in 62/63.Got mine 6/64 and have over 4000 jumps on them. Have you been injured jumping Paracommanders? Yves. QuotePointer's manuals have it as Early models (1964-66). The Mark II was introduced in 1969. The Mark I's proformance numbers: Glide Angle: 53 degrees Opening time (283 lbs total): Zero Velocity : 5.1 seconds 150 knots: 1.8 seconds Distance: Twisted lines: 186 feet Zero velocity: 321' 110 kts: 115' 150 kts: 41' Forward speed (with 200 lbs): 14 mph Decent Rate (with 200 lbs): 16 feet per second The Comp model has lines shortened by 42 inches and more steering vents.*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ypelchat 0 #33 September 29, 2003 QuoteBack in the late 70's you were required to have 100 jumps under a round canopy before you were allowed to jump a square. I had 50 jumps under a 10 with front mounted reserve and 50 under a Paracommander. my paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landing I remember reading a book about the first square canopies. They were said to open.... "hard". A quick look at the picture, revealed that there was "NO SLIDER" on the setup...... Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #34 September 29, 2003 I would grab my rear risers,,, but would cross my arms,,, over my head,, and get my left riser w/ my right hand, and my right riser w/ my left hand, and then torque around ,,,180 degrees just at touch down,,by straightening out my arms, as I "chinned myself", so that while my canopy was still " backing up" I was landing facing "forward,",, and then would "run out the landing"......hahaha worked 6 times out of 10 !!. .. Ah..... youthful enthusiasm Sounds like a great way to land on a windy day. (I've got a couple jumps on a papillon.) I hated doing rear PLF's. Most of mine were feet, rear, and then head (on windy days). I used to experiment with a type of hook turn back in the 70's. If you hooked a para-commander into the wind just right, you wouldn't end up backing up. If you were late, landings were brutally hard, but it was still almost better than backing up. Thank god for French Paraboots......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #35 September 29, 2003 QuoteI hated doing rear PLF's ....your description of them is right on!.helmets were Hard then, for that reason..... QuoteI used to experiment with a type of hook turn back in the 70's. If you hooked a para-commander into the wind just right, you wouldn't end up backing up. I had sort of forgotten about that steve1...yes... with the momentum from that "spirally " turn ,, if you timed it right,, you you could dig into the wind just enough to , "stick the landing"...hahahaha.. but then... better open one of those shot and a halves, and get ready to lose a riser.. ( One of the Carl Boenish Films.. Either Sky Capers or Masters of the Sky,,, has a demo landing sequence where the jumper does JUST THAT,, on a paved parking lot.... with all the flags on the ground ,,,, Whipping ~ ~!!!!! in the wind...)..hahahaha.. and sure,, paraboots were S.O.P. . ... .. ... and as tbrown recalls,,,they let ya' keep jumpin' in the winter...and.... Floating to the ground on a still winter day,, after a sucessful 4 way, under a silent canopy, with some friends flying alongside you,,,,,the cold sun bright in a solid blue sky,, and fresh snow everywhere,, except for the runway....is a memory easily forgotten... thanks for bringing it back today ... makes me wish I had video camera(s) during the PC Days.....safe skydives bro's... and "don't forget to hook up the bungees!!!!!!! jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #36 September 29, 2003 Quote ( One of the Carl Boenish Films.. Either Sky Capers or Masters of the Sky,,, has a demo landing sequence I recall that scene.......The scene that really sticks in my mind though is of the two-way hookup tearing it's way through someone's canopy. I'd love to see that movie again. It's been about 30 years since I last viewed it. I'd also love to jump a PC again. Everyone thinks I'm nuts for wanting to, but just for old time's sake. I've still got my old Frenchies. You never know, I might need them again. I may even get out my old motorcycle helmet. portia goggles, and baggy jump suit (complete with bell-bottom sleeves and legs)......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skypuppy 1 #37 September 29, 2003 I've jumped pcs lots for fun, although I actually started on sierras - which were a lite-weight copy of a pc, I believe... What I remember impressed me most was the silence on those first few jumps after the plane flew away from me... It was like being in church on a sunday morning... This contrasted with the noise from the wind when I released the brakes on my first square (stratostar) jump and watched the canopy dive down in front of me... Never really captured the feeling of releasing the brakes like that again....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tonybrogdon 0 #38 September 30, 2003 You are right no slider. They were orginally designed for a sleave not a bag with a spring loaded pilot chute and front mounted reserve.Tony Brogdon D-12855 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #39 October 4, 2003 Never broke any bones,just the useral bumps,bruses,and sprains,mostly from down wind landing in comps.Had several malfunctions on the PC.The ram airs are less malfunction prone since the invention of the slider.PC's have softer opening shock than a square.Every body shortened PC lines at least 24"by 1966!! For faster/stable turns and less malfunctions.Most of my PC jumps were on a deployment bag not a sleve.POP D-47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuteless 1 #40 October 4, 2003 Of all the chutes I've jumped, I liked the Para Commander best. I have had several, one which was prone to have a malfunction every so often, especially when I packed a 16mm movie camera in the apex pointing down. My black and Gold PC was the best. I would field pack it overnight, and with two pilot chutes, I could go as low as I wished and get a good solid opening., every time. I wish I still had it, and dont even know what I did with it. Ram airs are nice and fly better, but the ole PC was a lot more fun to jump. I never shortened the lines on mine, and seldom had to do a PLF as Standup landings were easy with the PC. Bill Cole D-41 Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tuffjump 0 #41 May 13, 2011 QuoteBack in the late 70's you were required to have 100 jumps under a round canopy before you were allowed to jump a square. I had 50 jumps under a 10 with front mounted reserve and 50 under a Paracommander. my paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landingMade my first square jump on a Parasled in Delray Beach Oct 1973 it was my 73rd Jump. Bought my first square Dec 1973 it was a Babyplane it was the hardest canopy opening I ever experenced. I'd pull, grab my belly reserve and hold on tight. Lost the canopy after a cut away......best thing that coulda happened.lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #42 May 14, 2011 great memories indeed, Jimmy. the silence, peace, beauty on those PC's. in Oklahoma we opened way upwind, backed up rapidly towards the airport, turned a 180 to run into the landing area, followed by a 180 hook turn to a very soft standup (sometimes cutting away one capewell, indeed !! it all sounds funny but we thought it was all normal procedure,, ha ha !!!! Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #43 May 14, 2011 PC's were indeed pretty reliable.. some guys seemed to have PC's that would malfunction periodically, maybe it wasnt the canopy, you know? but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, for me it was T-10's ! ouch, some hard landings in the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #44 May 14, 2011 the early squares had a pilot chute controlled reefing system, most of them. Clouds opened not too horribly hard... then Strato Stars opened quite nicely... with a big long bridle cord that you young folks wouldnt believe !!!! ha ha !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dks13827 3 #45 May 14, 2011 inspired you ? what about Ripcord TV show ??? it was great, in it's day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #46 May 14, 2011 That was Dean McLaughlin's rather tight DZ, right. There was a neat bar just down the street. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #47 May 16, 2011 Quote but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, I have trouble labelling a para-commander, as just another round canopy. They were way better than the old "rag" canopies. In fact they were considered the hot canopy to own, in the early 70's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #48 May 16, 2011 Quote Quote but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, I have trouble labelling a para-commander, as just another round canopy. They were way better than the old "rag" canopies. In fact they were considered the hot canopy to own, in the early 70's. They were the Impala, the rags were a Biscayne and if ya wanted a Caprice...go Papillion! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,444 #49 May 16, 2011 Would that make the Piglet a VW Beetle? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 210 #50 May 16, 2011 My first PC felt like I was blasting around the skyPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
tbrown 26 #30 September 28, 2003 QuoteMy one round jump was on a Comp PC 3 weeks ago. They land hard The Comp PC was designed for competition accuracy and had larger vents and holes than the standard MK I model. They could land with a thump, but were meant to thump in pea gravel. A little practice would help you to figure out the landings. I had one of the original 1964 r/w/b PC's, I think I paid $150 bucks for it and was probably the 5th or 6th person to own it. I loved my PC. The landings were so soft that I switched over from French boots to sneakers and never went back (except in the wintertime, when the boots were warmer and better suited to walking through snow). Just give the back risers a good tug and if it wasn't tooo windy the stand up took care of itself. Did all the accuracy requirements for my C and D licenses with a PC and no, I didn't even have to downwind it. They were just different from squares. Much as I love squares, I'm so very fond of that old PC when I think of it. they opened quickly and softly, had decent drive for a decent spot, snappy response to the toggles and just looked beautiful. On the downside, they were bulky, weighed about half a ton (2.2 oz taffeta matl), and were a BITCH to pack. But I never had a malfunction with a PC, never. Which is more than I can say for squares... Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #31 September 29, 2003 QuotePointer's manuals have it as Early models (1964-66). The Mark II was introduced in 1969. The Mark I's proformance numbers: Glide Angle: 53 degrees Opening time (283 lbs total): Zero Velocity : 5.1 seconds 150 knots: 1.8 seconds Distance: Twisted lines: 186 feet Zero velocity: 321' 110 kts: 115' 150 kts: 41' Forward speed (with 200 lbs): 14 mph Decent Rate (with 200 lbs): 16 feet per second The Comp model has lines shortened by 42 inches and more steering vents. Geez! 16 feet per second......... hence the need for a good PLF Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #32 September 29, 2003 Quote The PC was on the market by April 1964,Pioneer was testing them in 62/63.Got mine 6/64 and have over 4000 jumps on them. Have you been injured jumping Paracommanders? Yves. QuotePointer's manuals have it as Early models (1964-66). The Mark II was introduced in 1969. The Mark I's proformance numbers: Glide Angle: 53 degrees Opening time (283 lbs total): Zero Velocity : 5.1 seconds 150 knots: 1.8 seconds Distance: Twisted lines: 186 feet Zero velocity: 321' 110 kts: 115' 150 kts: 41' Forward speed (with 200 lbs): 14 mph Decent Rate (with 200 lbs): 16 feet per second The Comp model has lines shortened by 42 inches and more steering vents.*** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ypelchat 0 #33 September 29, 2003 QuoteBack in the late 70's you were required to have 100 jumps under a round canopy before you were allowed to jump a square. I had 50 jumps under a 10 with front mounted reserve and 50 under a Paracommander. my paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landing I remember reading a book about the first square canopies. They were said to open.... "hard". A quick look at the picture, revealed that there was "NO SLIDER" on the setup...... Yves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #34 September 29, 2003 I would grab my rear risers,,, but would cross my arms,,, over my head,, and get my left riser w/ my right hand, and my right riser w/ my left hand, and then torque around ,,,180 degrees just at touch down,,by straightening out my arms, as I "chinned myself", so that while my canopy was still " backing up" I was landing facing "forward,",, and then would "run out the landing"......hahaha worked 6 times out of 10 !!. .. Ah..... youthful enthusiasm Sounds like a great way to land on a windy day. (I've got a couple jumps on a papillon.) I hated doing rear PLF's. Most of mine were feet, rear, and then head (on windy days). I used to experiment with a type of hook turn back in the 70's. If you hooked a para-commander into the wind just right, you wouldn't end up backing up. If you were late, landings were brutally hard, but it was still almost better than backing up. Thank god for French Paraboots......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #35 September 29, 2003 QuoteI hated doing rear PLF's ....your description of them is right on!.helmets were Hard then, for that reason..... QuoteI used to experiment with a type of hook turn back in the 70's. If you hooked a para-commander into the wind just right, you wouldn't end up backing up. I had sort of forgotten about that steve1...yes... with the momentum from that "spirally " turn ,, if you timed it right,, you you could dig into the wind just enough to , "stick the landing"...hahahaha.. but then... better open one of those shot and a halves, and get ready to lose a riser.. ( One of the Carl Boenish Films.. Either Sky Capers or Masters of the Sky,,, has a demo landing sequence where the jumper does JUST THAT,, on a paved parking lot.... with all the flags on the ground ,,,, Whipping ~ ~!!!!! in the wind...)..hahahaha.. and sure,, paraboots were S.O.P. . ... .. ... and as tbrown recalls,,,they let ya' keep jumpin' in the winter...and.... Floating to the ground on a still winter day,, after a sucessful 4 way, under a silent canopy, with some friends flying alongside you,,,,,the cold sun bright in a solid blue sky,, and fresh snow everywhere,, except for the runway....is a memory easily forgotten... thanks for bringing it back today ... makes me wish I had video camera(s) during the PC Days.....safe skydives bro's... and "don't forget to hook up the bungees!!!!!!! jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #36 September 29, 2003 Quote ( One of the Carl Boenish Films.. Either Sky Capers or Masters of the Sky,,, has a demo landing sequence I recall that scene.......The scene that really sticks in my mind though is of the two-way hookup tearing it's way through someone's canopy. I'd love to see that movie again. It's been about 30 years since I last viewed it. I'd also love to jump a PC again. Everyone thinks I'm nuts for wanting to, but just for old time's sake. I've still got my old Frenchies. You never know, I might need them again. I may even get out my old motorcycle helmet. portia goggles, and baggy jump suit (complete with bell-bottom sleeves and legs)......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #37 September 29, 2003 I've jumped pcs lots for fun, although I actually started on sierras - which were a lite-weight copy of a pc, I believe... What I remember impressed me most was the silence on those first few jumps after the plane flew away from me... It was like being in church on a sunday morning... This contrasted with the noise from the wind when I released the brakes on my first square (stratostar) jump and watched the canopy dive down in front of me... Never really captured the feeling of releasing the brakes like that again....If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonybrogdon 0 #38 September 30, 2003 You are right no slider. They were orginally designed for a sleave not a bag with a spring loaded pilot chute and front mounted reserve.Tony Brogdon D-12855 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #39 October 4, 2003 Never broke any bones,just the useral bumps,bruses,and sprains,mostly from down wind landing in comps.Had several malfunctions on the PC.The ram airs are less malfunction prone since the invention of the slider.PC's have softer opening shock than a square.Every body shortened PC lines at least 24"by 1966!! For faster/stable turns and less malfunctions.Most of my PC jumps were on a deployment bag not a sleve.POP D-47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #40 October 4, 2003 Of all the chutes I've jumped, I liked the Para Commander best. I have had several, one which was prone to have a malfunction every so often, especially when I packed a 16mm movie camera in the apex pointing down. My black and Gold PC was the best. I would field pack it overnight, and with two pilot chutes, I could go as low as I wished and get a good solid opening., every time. I wish I still had it, and dont even know what I did with it. Ram airs are nice and fly better, but the ole PC was a lot more fun to jump. I never shortened the lines on mine, and seldom had to do a PLF as Standup landings were easy with the PC. Bill Cole D-41 Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tuffjump 0 #41 May 13, 2011 QuoteBack in the late 70's you were required to have 100 jumps under a round canopy before you were allowed to jump a square. I had 50 jumps under a 10 with front mounted reserve and 50 under a Paracommander. my paracommander landed extremely soft if you pulled back on the back risers just before landingMade my first square jump on a Parasled in Delray Beach Oct 1973 it was my 73rd Jump. Bought my first square Dec 1973 it was a Babyplane it was the hardest canopy opening I ever experenced. I'd pull, grab my belly reserve and hold on tight. Lost the canopy after a cut away......best thing that coulda happened.lol. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #42 May 14, 2011 great memories indeed, Jimmy. the silence, peace, beauty on those PC's. in Oklahoma we opened way upwind, backed up rapidly towards the airport, turned a 180 to run into the landing area, followed by a 180 hook turn to a very soft standup (sometimes cutting away one capewell, indeed !! it all sounds funny but we thought it was all normal procedure,, ha ha !!!! Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #43 May 14, 2011 PC's were indeed pretty reliable.. some guys seemed to have PC's that would malfunction periodically, maybe it wasnt the canopy, you know? but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, for me it was T-10's ! ouch, some hard landings in the wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #44 May 14, 2011 the early squares had a pilot chute controlled reefing system, most of them. Clouds opened not too horribly hard... then Strato Stars opened quite nicely... with a big long bridle cord that you young folks wouldnt believe !!!! ha ha !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dks13827 3 #45 May 14, 2011 inspired you ? what about Ripcord TV show ??? it was great, in it's day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #46 May 14, 2011 That was Dean McLaughlin's rather tight DZ, right. There was a neat bar just down the street. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #47 May 16, 2011 Quote but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, I have trouble labelling a para-commander, as just another round canopy. They were way better than the old "rag" canopies. In fact they were considered the hot canopy to own, in the early 70's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #48 May 16, 2011 Quote Quote but wow were PC's way better than surplus canopies, I have trouble labelling a para-commander, as just another round canopy. They were way better than the old "rag" canopies. In fact they were considered the hot canopy to own, in the early 70's. They were the Impala, the rags were a Biscayne and if ya wanted a Caprice...go Papillion! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,444 #49 May 16, 2011 Would that make the Piglet a VW Beetle? Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 210 #50 May 16, 2011 My first PC felt like I was blasting around the skyPlease don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
