weber 0 #1 May 24, 2002 An AED is an Automated External Defibrillation device. It is the thing that shocks someone if they have no heartbeat and helps it get going. CPR by itself offers a one percent chance of survival and with the AED that goes up to 40 percent. YOu have to get a special ok to buy them and they are not cheap, but I think it would be a good thing for DZs to have. It does not take too much to get trained on them and it could save some lives.I got the idea cause I'm taking a First Aid / CPR class as an elective right now...what do you all think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #2 May 25, 2002 The toughest thing about buying fancy emergency medical equipment is ensuring that you will have trained staff to operate it. Skydiving has a pretty high turn over and DZ staff tend to "migrate." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WmLauterbach 0 #3 May 27, 2002 AED's STILL require training... they are relatively idiot proof, but again, they require training. (Who is going to maintain it?)Skydiving related injuries generally dont not ultimately require the use of an AED. They require immobilization devices.In my opinion, (I have been a NREMT-P since June '94) a DZ would be better off owning some good QUALITY splints, a backboard, head/neck restraints, and some bandages. Here's why (my 2 cents only)Something that would cause a heart to stop beating on a DZ would be a traumatic injury, not illness. The chances of reviving a heart that has stopped due to traumatic injury are slim to almost nonexistent. On the other hand, neck back and extremity injuries are VERY common, and the timely use of a back/neck restraint may be the difference between a lost season of skydiving and a life in a wheeelchair. A good splint can be the difference between jumping again before the season is over, or walking with a limp the rest of your life. Just my two cents. I could be wrong... again, just my opinion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 May 27, 2002 Agreed - most, if not all, Dz's I've been to have only a very basic medical kit (including one in the plane). I think most injuries on the dz would be from bad landings, where immobilisation devices would be useful. Let's go play chicken with a planet !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WmLauterbach 0 #5 May 29, 2002 speak of the devil.....there is a great article in this months parachutist.........Blue skies...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rgoper 0 #6 May 29, 2002 it's sad but true, the reason they aren't employed on the dz's is because of attrition, expense, and liability. the "standard" stack of papers we fill out do not include utilization of defibrilization devices. thus they become more of a liability, than an asset. although, i'm certainly not opposed to having an EMT paramedic on the scene during events, just like football, nascar, etc...............Richard"Gravity Is My Friend" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #7 May 30, 2002 I agree with WmLauterbach mostly. Actually, training in what NOT to do may be the most beneficial. Several times I've had to fight off (not literally) other jumpers who wanted to move severely injured patients. If trained and equipped emergency medical assistance is near, all you need are ABC's plus bleeding control . Open/clear the airway if necessary with C spine precautions, provided rescue breathing in not breathing and provided full CPR in no pulse. (chest compressions with rescue breathing). All with TRAINING. I don't want the DZ guys trying to put me on a backboard, apply a c collar, or splint a femur. An AED would be useful for Non traumatic heart stoppage, just like any other public facility. Maintenance and continued training would be a problem and there are other places in society that need them first.One useful thing might be for the DZ to sponsor a CPR class and maybe first aid. Forget your boy scout splinting. Leave it to the ambulance crew. I've only skimmed the Parachutist article and do remember them suggesting inviting the local EMS out to become famialiar with the situation. One other suggestion is to get training in setting up an emergency helicoptor landing area. Things that have worked. Opening the airway of an unconcious jumper, holding C spine, treating for shock, keeping jumpers from moving victims and victims from getting up, splinting simple fractures for trips in private vehicles to the hospital.As a licensed MFR in MI I do carry in my truck everything I can legally use, a backboard, c collars, simple splints, bleeding control, ambu bag, Personal protective equipment, BP cuff for diagnostics, etc. The only thing I don't have that I could is oxygen. In Michigan medical oxygen requires licensing to administer. I won't offer advice on the use of aviation oxygen for medical emergencies. (But I might send somebody looking.)Terry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E150 0 #8 May 31, 2002 I went on a four day first aid course a couple of years ago. This exact question was asked. The paramedics reply was . . . 'If an AED is not used correctly it could kill the person, so first aiders are better to use CPR'! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #9 May 31, 2002 BWAAHHAAHAAA.....they told you that?....please...those paramedics are probably uneducated as to AED use...I would love to see an AED on every street corner...it'd make my job alot easier...3..2..1..C-YAmarc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
E150 0 #10 May 31, 2002 Maybe I'm getting confused (it was a while ago). Am I right in saying that . . . . If you give CPR when a person still has a pulse it can send them into *insert some medical term here*. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #11 May 31, 2002 yes if you do CPR on someone that still has a beating heart you can send them into fib....but the chances are minimal...BUT...with an AED the chances of anyone screwing it up are almost zero....as it wont allow you to do anything unless it needs to be done...that is why they are such great things..you are in the UK...so paramedics over there are not trained th same as over here....3..2..1..C-YAmarc Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WmLauterbach 0 #12 May 31, 2002 an AED if it is working properly, and connected right (considering the sticky pads have pictures it is pretty hard to connect it wrong) it will not shock a person that dont need to be shocked... and yes starting CPR on a healthy well beating heart is widely accepted as a very bad idea... In my opinion, it comes down to this, money is a finite resource, spend it however you like, just remember if you are spending it to save lives - try to get the most bang for the buck...If you work in a retirement community, and spend lots of money on splints, bandages and first aid kits, you will probably not save a lot of your patients because your splint set will not provide any electricity to a failing heart.On the other hand, if you spend all your money at the drop zone buying AED's, it will most likely sit unattended in a corner (right next to the fire extinguisher with an oudated tag) until it is covered in dust and someone trips over it and breaks an ankle. (then you wont be able to splint the broken bone because you spent all your money on an AED)again... I defer to the article in the June 2002 Parachutist on page 34Blue Skies... soft landingsDARN IT! SKYMEDIC BEAT ME TO THE POST! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
