steve1 5 #26 January 8, 2004 Quote[ a lot of time was spent hanging around as a student, without jumping. I would spend many consecutive weekends at the DZ, and never get to jump. But a lot of info was absorbed during that time. reply] I remember hanging around all day and only getting a couple jumps out of our club Cessna even when the weather was good. Much of the time the better jumpers would jump with you though, and it was a great learning environment, just hanging around BSing. The most jumps anyone had in the two clubs I jumped with back then was around 600. You were considered really really experienced or Sky God material if you had 500 jumps then. I remember when Fred Sand broke a 1,000 and thinking that was awesome. But anyhow, I wouldn't want to go back to those days. Today places like Eloy, Elsinore, and Perris (and many other modern DZ's) spoil you in a hurry. And then again a para-commander isn't near as much fun as a square, but I'd sure like to jump one again (at least once for old times sake).....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #27 January 9, 2004 >>That's an excellent point. With the military surplus gear and low wind limits, a lot of time was spent hanging around as a student, without jumping. I would spend many consecutive weekends at the DZ, and never get to jump. But a lot of info was absorbed during that time. Now I see students show up, make an AFF jump, and depart, all within a couple of hours. Many of them don't hang around and talk at all. They're missing out on a valuable learning opportunity!>> Holding tension on the rounds was a good way to learn how to pack. Never ever heard of "packers". Now some folks are jumping and don't even know how to pack or what the orange warning label on their canopy says. Anyone jump with a plastic ripcord handle? R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #27 January 9, 2004 >>That's an excellent point. With the military surplus gear and low wind limits, a lot of time was spent hanging around as a student, without jumping. I would spend many consecutive weekends at the DZ, and never get to jump. But a lot of info was absorbed during that time. Now I see students show up, make an AFF jump, and depart, all within a couple of hours. Many of them don't hang around and talk at all. They're missing out on a valuable learning opportunity!>> Holding tension on the rounds was a good way to learn how to pack. Never ever heard of "packers". Now some folks are jumping and don't even know how to pack or what the orange warning label on their canopy says. Anyone jump with a plastic ripcord handle? R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #28 January 9, 2004 Oh Steve dear..... I just so happen to know someone who says he has one here.. full rig... if I want to jump it.. want me to borrow it and bring it to LP?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #29 January 9, 2004 Bill, You are right on when you said the PC was the best parachute ever made!! But it was a "PARACHUTE",ramairs are WINGS!!! I think I made the first live jump on the ram air at Clewiston,Fl.in 1963 using a paper shopping bag as a deployment media (OOOUUCH) and i did'nt stand up either,was still seeing stars when I hit the ground.Have'nt been together since!!!!!! POP D-47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitecap 0 #30 January 9, 2004 I agree with you Bill a great canopy.Easy to stand up into the wind even at the higher altitudes at Calgary Alberta. No worries at a 2200 ft exit.(sometimes a little lower) The downwind accuracy landings in 15 + mph winds definitely gave you a little tug when you turned on final.Overall a great canopy.One cutaway in 500 jumps. Stand up in the peas with my 26 lopo reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #31 January 9, 2004 QuoteThe most jumps anyone had in the two clubs I jumped with back then was around 600. Yes, my jumpmaster had 300 jumps, and I thought that if I ever achieved that lofty level of skill, I would really be something. And nowadays, at 300 jumps, you're still looked upon as somewhat of a rookie... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #32 January 9, 2004 QuoteHolding tension on the rounds was a good way to learn how to pack. Never ever heard of "packers". Now some folks are jumping and don't even know how to pack or what the orange warning label on their canopy says. Yep, it took two to pack, if you could find a buddy to help. But as the saying went back then; "When you're packing, you don't have any buddies." So then you would hook your crown lines to a nail on the wall, and tie your leg straps to something on the other end, and make your own tension. QuoteAnyone jump with a plastic ripcord handle? Yep, I've still got a fiberglass one in my spare parts bag, left over from those days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #33 January 9, 2004 [ Yes, my jumpmaster had 300 jumps, and I thought that if I ever achieved that lofty level of skill, I would really be something. And nowadays, at 300 jumps, you're still looked upon as somewhat of a rookie... I think I'm a little older so the guy who taught us to jump had 65 jumps and knew everything about skydiving. Of course your correct about trying to find someone to hold tension, That's what s.o. where for. We didn't have the luxery of anything to attach a nail to so we used a piece of rope on the car bumper for the crown lines and a large screw driver or car jack handle in the ground holding the leg strap's. We were amazed the first time we saw someone packing a square without tension. Damn thats never been done befor are you sure thats will work? Bottom line it was still a lot of fun! The learning curve was just a little flatter but who cared we were all learning together. When folks say they only have 300 jumps I tell them that's a lot of jumps! R.I.P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #31 January 9, 2004 QuoteThe most jumps anyone had in the two clubs I jumped with back then was around 600. Yes, my jumpmaster had 300 jumps, and I thought that if I ever achieved that lofty level of skill, I would really be something. And nowadays, at 300 jumps, you're still looked upon as somewhat of a rookie... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 January 9, 2004 QuoteHolding tension on the rounds was a good way to learn how to pack. Never ever heard of "packers". Now some folks are jumping and don't even know how to pack or what the orange warning label on their canopy says. Yep, it took two to pack, if you could find a buddy to help. But as the saying went back then; "When you're packing, you don't have any buddies." So then you would hook your crown lines to a nail on the wall, and tie your leg straps to something on the other end, and make your own tension. QuoteAnyone jump with a plastic ripcord handle? Yep, I've still got a fiberglass one in my spare parts bag, left over from those days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #33 January 9, 2004 [ Yes, my jumpmaster had 300 jumps, and I thought that if I ever achieved that lofty level of skill, I would really be something. And nowadays, at 300 jumps, you're still looked upon as somewhat of a rookie... I think I'm a little older so the guy who taught us to jump had 65 jumps and knew everything about skydiving. Of course your correct about trying to find someone to hold tension, That's what s.o. where for. We didn't have the luxery of anything to attach a nail to so we used a piece of rope on the car bumper for the crown lines and a large screw driver or car jack handle in the ground holding the leg strap's. We were amazed the first time we saw someone packing a square without tension. Damn thats never been done befor are you sure thats will work? Bottom line it was still a lot of fun! The learning curve was just a little flatter but who cared we were all learning together. When folks say they only have 300 jumps I tell them that's a lot of jumps! R.I.P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #34 January 9, 2004 Sounds about right POP. But if you think like me, those were the real "GOOD" days. I recall smashing all the tendons in my left ankle on a jump at your dropzone, and then going back up and making another where I had to land on one foot. It was a cigarette commercial for Cameo cigs. I prayed for some rain and finished the commercial few days later with a "funjump" at 22150, with Darryl Henry and Marilou MacDonald. Loved those times, I'll tell ya. Good to know your still out there Pops. Bill Cole D-41 Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
usedtajump 1 #35 January 9, 2004 Quote: Anyone jump with a plastic ripcord handle? :Quote Had a Classiflyer that both main and reserve ripcord handles were plastic, not fiberglass but plastic. Makes me shudder to even think about it now.The older I get the less I care who I piss off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,534 #36 January 9, 2004 Yeah, I had a Starlite rig with a plastic reserve handle. I'd home-converted it to a throw-out, so the main handle was gone. Of course, the home-conversion wouldn't pass muster these days either. A friend of mine tried the slam-it-in-the-cold trick when he got a replacement handle. Yup, it shattered big-time. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #37 January 9, 2004 QuoteOh Steve dear..... I just so happen to know someone who says he has one here.. full rig... if I want to jump it.. want me to borrow it and bring it to LP?? Bring it, if you can. I'll bring my old Frenchies and motorcycle helmet. I may have a chance to buy one also. It's 30 years old, but I figure if I have a good belly reserve, what the hell. Hope to see you there.....Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Padley 0 #38 January 9, 2004 The Para Commander (PC) did indeed flare. I did many jumps on one doing displays, water jumps and fun jumping. It was a gentle canopy as long as you respected the ideal that when it was first available it was THE canopy to have and was High Performance!! As Bob Ackerman said to me when I first used it 'Abuse it at altitude but respect it close to the ground'. As with the square you had to practice, practice and practice again. Hook turns could hurt if you got them wrong and downwind landings doing accuracy was not for the faint hearted. To flare the PC on demos I always found it was best to run it downwind to get some speed up, hook turn it and then either pull down on the rear risers or both toggles. You would get a good landing provided you got it right. On some displays it was not unheard of to step out of the harness on landing. It was indeed a gentelmans canopy. Pete Padley,D608 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #40 January 10, 2004 Hi Bill, What do you think about flairing the PC? There was an article once in the Parachutist titled "LOOPING THE PARACOMMANDER",I could never seem to master that one!! POP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tonybrogdon 0 #41 January 10, 2004 My first rig was a T-10 military style round. My second rig was a Mark 5 Paracommander. It seemed to me that it rose up slightly if you pulled on the rear risers just before landing. My 50 plus jumps on it were some of softess landings in 20 years of skydiving.Tony Brogdon D-12855 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #42 January 10, 2004 POP: Thats the article "Looping the Para Commander" that I referred to. I thought it was in CanPara, but you are probvably right, it was likely PARACHUTIST. It was written byDarrykl Henry, and was a well written piece. I wish someone would revive it....its certainly worth reading. Does anyone know where Darryl Henry is now??? Bill Cole D-41 Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitecap 0 #43 January 10, 2004 Daryl Henry went on to become a successful TV writer and director.He did a lot work on a program called Emergency One.Last I heard he was living in California. Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #44 January 11, 2004 Bill,I must make a correction.I looked up "LOOP THE COMMANDER"in some of my old mags and found the artical in SKYDIVER MAGAZINE 11/65 issue and written by L.D.VINCI a fictitious author.The authors note: I'd like to dedicate this article to Bob Hill and Tim Saltonstall,who inspired it;to Daryl Henry and Dave Becker,who made it neccessary;To J.D.Salinger,who might then forgive me...and finally to all those kind people whose colorful accidents made it possible... Daryl Henry wrote "COMMAND THE COMMANDER" Skydiver magazine 4/65 issue.POP D47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuteless 1 #45 January 11, 2004 Thanks for the update Pops. I still believe it was Daryl who wrote the article, because I seem to recall him talking to me about it later. L.D.Vinci ??? I once wrote an article and it appeared authored by P.C.Capewell. You shoukld maybe see if "Loop the Commander" can be republished. I recall it was quite good, and remember some jumpers who believed every word of it.... Bill Cole D-41 Canada Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nitecap 0 #46 January 11, 2004 I had the pleasure of jumping with Daryl and his father John at Abbotsford. John was one of my students at Abbotsford parachute centre. He began jumping after retirement from the RCMP. He continued jumping until his late sixties. With pressure from his family he gave up jumping for a less hazardous sport and got a pilots license with an aerobatic endorcement. I believe Daryl still lives in the LA area. Anyone with connections to the TV industry may be able to find him. Try a google search for Daryl Henry or Emergency One. He was a director and screen writer for this show. I have some photos of Daryl and John Henry that I will post as soon as I can figure out how to reduce them. If you would like to see them pm me and I will send them. The files are just too large to post. Don Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #47 January 11, 2004 QuoteDoes anyone know where Darryl Henry is now??? Bill Cole D-41 Canada Bill, Daryl had an article in Canpara not all that long ago....the Oct/Nov/Dec - 2002 issue. It was about the 40th anniversary of Canada's first medal at a World Parachuting Championships....Gold in Team Accuracy won by Jim Noble, Daryl, Floyd Martineau (still an active jumper) and Simon Wykeham-Martin (who passed away of lung cancer in the late 80's). As mentioned, I believe he is in California still.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surf 0 #48 January 14, 2004 It's wierd to read the high-winds hook turn procedure, in light of recent skydiving trends. So anyone ever hook a PC as described? "Nothing is written"- T.E. Lawrence Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #49 January 15, 2004 Sure! We all hooked them. A 180 took about 100 feet (if even)... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AirCav 0 #50 January 15, 2004 Yes! Especially those of us that only weighed 120 lbs. We would back up in any thing faster than 8 to 10 MPH winds.GW685,D3888,C5052,SCS843 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
