R00tj00se 0 #26 May 23, 2002 Why do we have a 200 jump limit for Skysurf and a 500 jump recommendation (with currency) for Wingsuits. Why do we put a jump number limit on Helicopters and Balloons (well, we do in the UK - don't know about the US).Are you saying that we shouldn't have jump limits on these activities but that it should be governed by the persons skill.Although these activities involve an extra piece of equipment be added to a skydive they are similair to FF in that they take you out of the stable freefall position that you learn through AFF etc. (balloon and helicopter jumps can catch people out in terms of stability).Now, 9 times out of 10 people are going to be ok on these types of jumps but the jump limits are there to allow people to build up experience in a familiar environment (flat flying) before moving into an unfamiliar environment (other skydiving activities). Different people will develop their skills at different rates and the jump limits are there to protect people who may try to run before they can walk - the unfortunate side effect of this is that people who have the skill are made to wait that little bit longer before they try out their chosen activity. Not too bad a price to pay for safety.Now - I have to get back to jockeying my desk :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #27 May 23, 2002 Well said Adam.Also, there is no jump number requirement for starting freeflying in the UK. At Hinton (and most BPA DZs) the rule is simply that you have your FS1 before you start freeflying. There are NO jump number restrictions to this. If somebody is really shit hot then he can get his FS1 with ease and start freeflying at 30 jumps. I then went on to say : QuoteAlso, with the added dangers of freeflying (faster and *3-dimensional*) doesn't it make sense to get a bit of experience before starting freeflying?I did pose that as a question, funny how some people start jumping up and down screaming. If you look at the rules in skydiving in the UK (eg 200 jumps min. for camera, 500 for wingsuit) I think you will find they are actually quite reasonable.WillPS did I mention that there is NO minimum jump number requirement for freeflying in the UK???"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skreamer 1 #28 May 23, 2002 Thats right, because you are amazing. And the more I read about you telling us about you the more amazed I get.... "Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #29 May 23, 2002 QuoteWhy do we have a 200 jump limit for Skysurf and a 500 jump recommendation (with currency) for Wingsuits. Because if you haven't mastered certain skills, you're dead. The 200 jumps aren't important, the skills you need to handle specific dangers in Skysurfing are.I don't have a problem saying "you should have X many jumps before doing Y", because it's a good general benchmark. But I think you also need to go beyond that benchmark and list the specific dangers/skills needed so people can make informed decisions on their abilities. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trent 0 #30 May 23, 2002 "There are old skydivers and there are bold skydivers, but there are no old bold skydivers"Hopefully these things sort themselves out before anyone does too much damage to themselves or to others. It is disturbing to see recent student graduates looking to these over-aggressive types for advice or ideas of what they should be doing. Please think before you give someone advice or instruction. Be honest about your abilities, and if you don't know what to say to a new jumper... send them to an instructor. I know at 200 jumps, we all know everything and we're exceptions to every rule... we fly better than average, we can handle any kind of winds, we can swoop the entire beer line with our canopy that has to be hooked low since it planes out so quickly, we can fall *straight* down the tube on freefly jumps, and we know enough to tell new jumpers what's up. I wasn't any different, I'm sure. But a few jumps later, I know enough to know that I don't know shit... and have a long way to go before I do. Be conservative, live long, and be honest about where your skills are. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #31 May 23, 2002 God post Trent"Be honest about your abilities"This is what most of us have difficulty with, in my short experience anyway. Try and leave your ego on the shelf for the sake of your own (and others) safety. Not only in Freeflying, but otherdisciplines too.Be realistic about your own flaws and inabilities, and plan your dives accordingly. You will learn more and ultimately hace more fun, mebbe even becoming a competent jumper along the way.CyaDGravity Rat # 37Remember, we can do everything right, and still get hurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #32 May 23, 2002 <<>>Glad you liked that one Trent :-)Quote "There are old skydivers and there are bold skydivers, but there are no old bold skydivers" It's my "opinion" that a fresh off student status skydiver SHOULD learn to fly on their belly before starting to learn to freefly. I work with alot of students just off of AFF that can barely track away from a two way. "Now even Freefliers Go to their belly and track". So now you have a kid with a maybe 50 jumps playing with other kids freeflying time to break and track! Tracking is a big part of the skydive...agree?This is just one item why I think some additonal coaching and belly jumps should be made before Freeflying. Just my opinion and what i have encoutered jumping with newbies that have gone straight to Freefly.Bluest Skies,TamiScotty -n- Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #33 May 23, 2002 Listen to your Auntie Tami Kids, y'all know she makes sense.<>Plus as said before, and demonstrated at the nationals, belly flying is now part of freeflying. Unless you have control of your body, in ALL attitudes, you simply are not a 'Total Body Pilot'.So put the time in, learn belly work--hey, its fun-- and be safe.CyaDGravity Rat # 37Remember, we can do everything right, and still get hurt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #34 May 23, 2002 >Why do we have a 200 jump limit for Skysurf sorry but that is not the case. i have over 20 surfs, and started surfing at 110 dives. within 10 dives i had already progressed to an intermidiate board. it is not jump numbers here it is skill level. everyone's skill level is different. just my 0.02why jump when you can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #35 May 23, 2002 <<>>Good for you hobbes4star, sounds like you are progressing well :-). I assume you reconized the ability to progress based on some advice of an instructor or coach? I would certainly hope so! I agree with you regarding progress based on skill level. The problem is when you are a new skydiver, you think that people with 100 jumps are the shit and know it all. And this is the case I dont care who you are. I remember it like yesterday (it was only 3 years ago)...being at that DZ and having 20 something jumps and listening to jumpers that I thought were gods that had 50 maybe 100 jumps telling me what to do and what not to do (all with good intentions of course). Telling me how good I was flying and landing and how I should get a smaller canopy and try this and try that. Man.....am I glad I was anal about this sport and did NOT act on it. I would listen to them THEN talk to the DZO and or INSTRUCTORS and ask for their opinion. Bottom line is everyone does it as a new skydiver (lend advice to NEWER skydivers). Heres my advice:Spend the extra money on an evaluation / coach dive and get the advice from someone worthy of giving it!Blues Skies,TamiPS: Hugs and smooches back atcha Dave!!!!Scotty -n- Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #36 May 23, 2002 tami i agree with you and yes i solicited one of the top surfers to coach and mentor me. i think i missed the point. what i was saying is that skill is everything. i have seen people with 200 dives out fly someone with 1000 dives before. i would hope that every student and newbe seeks the advice of instructors and coaches, and i would also hope that everyone uses good judgment. but having mandatory jump # before you can freefly, surf etc. doesn't always say that you have the skill to do such. like i said i started surfing at 110 but i was also evaluated as to my flying skills before i was allowed to strap on the board. i am not saying everyone with 100 dives should surf, i know a couple of people with 500 dives that shouldn't surf. the point i was trying to get across is that everyone is ready to do certain things at different times. based on skill level. this is just my 0.02 and i hope that i am not offending anyone here.why jump when you can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
carbonezone 0 #37 May 23, 2002 Hello Again Hobbes4starQuote this is just my 0.02 and i hope that i am not offending anyone here. Nahh...I dont think you are offending anyone...not me anyway!!I dont think you missed the point.....I think your opinion on skill level is right-on!!! "Take the next step when your skill level allows you to"Lator GatorScotty -n- Tami Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #38 May 23, 2002 Hiya Hobbes, am a newbie (30 jumps) so I dunno how much my opinion counts but I agree with you a 110%.I live in a country were the jumps are not so cheap (25$), only on sundays and some sundays yes and others no (bad weather), and because we are only 20 skydivers in the whole country we only get enough people to make 2-3 jumps per sunday. We try to get the best out of each jump (can't afford less), we try to get coaching on every jump, and try to make a 9-way or bigger (depends on the experience of others) once a year, its very hard to get that amount of jumps in a year or two, but our skills are very good for our number of jumps. It's all about skills, not number of jumps, but thats just my opinion. I want to be a freeflyer but I have no idea what SKILLS (# of jumps are gonna be extremely hard to reach) I need before I travel to the US for a course on Freefly."Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"drenaline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #39 May 23, 2002 drenalinesorry to hear you can only do so many jumps a weekend. when you get a chance to come to the states you will be amazed at the amount of jumps you will be able to put in. when you are here stop by Eloy, Az. i will jump with you. i am not a very good coach or anything but i will jump with you... as far as skill for freefly. i don't know to tell you the truth. i can't even begain to explain to tell you when i was ready to get off my belly or better yet to strap on a board. i have been refered to as a natural but i don't belive i am a natural. it is kinda like learning to walk. some people learn to walk before they crawl. my borther did. me on the other hand i was almost 2 before i was walking. why jump when you can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #40 May 23, 2002 >Why do we have a 200 jump limit for Skysurf and a 500 jump recommendation> (with currency) for Wingsuits. Why do we put a jump number limit on> Helicopters and Balloons (well, we do in the UK - don't know about the US).Because 5 seconds after exit you are back to normal freefall. You are _never_ back to normal freefall with a wingsuit, and you need to perform an additional procedure (board cutaway) to get back to normal freefall with a board. Thus wingsuits and skyboards require more experience.-bill von Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drenaline 0 #41 May 24, 2002 Thanks for the invitation, am planning that trip for the year 2004. Next year by carnival time am going to Orlando and jump those 4 days, with coaching and wind tunnel (working and selling (my guitar & stuff) like crazy to get the money), hope to have my B so I can make night jumps and maybe a intentional water jump."Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"drenaline Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
