Exit order

[BPO 0]

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i always go over my canopy colors with jumpers behind me, and advise that if they see me open early

Hmm... I was tought to NEVER open earlier than planned unless I'm the last one out of the plane? That's not a general golden rule?

[kopelen 0]

At one of the drop zones I jump at, they always let FF go first without exception. They are a two pass drop zone because of DZ size. Any help on to what should be the rule of thumb??

[hookit 0]

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I was tought to NEVER open earlier than planned unless I'm the last one out of the plane? That's not a general golden rule?

The only time I've heard of jumpers not being allowed to open high (as in the case of recognizing a long spot) is during really large boogies and on well organized formation loads where there are so many jumpers in the air that they all break off and pull in stages.
I would say it's certainly good practice to not open higher than your planned altitude however I've never seen it enforced as a rule except in the two cases I just mentioned.

[RichM 0]

Thanks for all your input ladies and gents, very much appreciated. I shall start assembling some paperwork now and see wher I can get :)
Blue skies
Rich

[rgoper 0]

**Hmm... I was tought to NEVER open earlier than planned unless I'm the last one out of the plane? That's not a general golden rule?**
number one, tought is not a word, it's taught. number two, if you jump before someone else, and you have to pitch higher than you would have liked, because of a bad spot, etc...don't you think the other jumpers behind you are going to deploy early as well? no matter what the circumstances, or conditions, etc...if someone even accidently deploys early, no matter what the reason, (equipment failure) you need to know what color of canopy to look for, then you have a real good idea of where everyone else is in relation to where you are. it is a good safety tool, laugh if you will, but think about the senseability of it!
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[quade 4]

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if someone even accidently deploys early, no matter what the reason, (equipment failure) you need to know what color of canopy to look for, then you have a real good idea of where everyone else is in relation to where you are. it is a good safety tool, laugh if you will, but think about the senseability of it!

Sensible idea, maybe. Works in practice, nope.
I don't know what kind of skydiving you're doing, but usually the folks I'm jumping with don't have any extra time on their hands to watch for high-openers while they're in freefall.
Assuming that the group behind you can see that you've opened early and will avoid you because "low man always has the right of way"* is really, really a bad idea.
Much better is to simply exit at the correct distance from the previous group and open at "normal" opening altitudes.
quade
http://futurecam.com
*I'm not quoting you on this, but rather a topic of discusion a few months back wherein some people said the low man always had the right of way.

[jdhill 0]

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pitch higher than you would have liked, because of a bad spot,

just because you hose yourself on a spot does not mean you should endager those behind you by opening early. Everyone is responsible for their own spot... if you get out, open where you planned and land off if you have to.

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you need to know what color of canopy to look for,

I don't need to know what color it is, a canopy is a canopy is a canopy... the fact is jumpers are most likely focused on their skydive not looking for premature openeings, especially students, instructors and video guys.
http://www.aerialfusion.com

[rgoper 0]

**I don't know what kind of skydiving you're doing, but usually the folks I'm jumping with don't have any extra time on their hands to watch for high-openers while they're in freefall.**
(that's because the "big ways" don't have to look out for anyone else, they're always out first)
personally, i'm shocked at this statement. let's just ALL sky dive "in a PERFECT WORLD" and see how long we'll live. quade, you always have a "bird's eye view" just because you do, doesn't mean everyone else does. are you making the statement that this "safety precaution" NOT be taken under advisement? i sincerely hope not. NO ONE lives forever. it really doesn't matter who's got right away in freefall, if you fall through someone's canopy, your both in a bad way. this is a concept i've been utilizing (discussing canopy colors) on the ground, and before exit at gear check time with fellow jumpers, and don't tell me it's b.s. because it actually helped on a jump not long ago. if you choose NOT to agree, fine, but don't criticize for someone trying to improvise new ways to be safer, that's wrong. can we be safe enough? no, can we jump enough? no. so if you guys don't think this "fits your plan", fine, don't utilize it, but don't be critical of other's attempts to be safe. i once spotted a jumper landing off he was a visitor because i was familiar with his gear, i knew just who it was.
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[rgoper 0]

**just because you hose yourself on a spot** (you've never had a bad spot because of something else?) does not mean you should endager those behind you by opening early. Everyone is responsible for their own spot... if you get out, open where you planned and land off if you have to. (have you never opened earlier than planned to "fly home?")
c'mon now............................................
Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[sittinpretty 0]

Are you kidding me? Now I have to remember the color of everyone's gear?! Ridiculous. First of all - not at all practical. We're all gonna discuss gear on EVERY jump and try to remember it?! Secondly, ANY canopy that is open in or near my space REGARDLESS OF COLOR is a concern of mine. And if you don't want it to be personal, you might think twice before spell-correcting others' posts when it is totally irrelevant.

[jdhill 0]

As I said, you are resonsible for where you get out of the plane, and you take what you get... don't assume that everyone will recognize that they have a bad spot... open early in the middle of a pass and YOU could KILL someone... sure I have had other reasons for a bad spot, but I take what I get, land off or milk it back and land down wind, but I can't say that I have ever opened high unless I was the last one out of the plane
http://www.aerialfusion.com

[PhreeZone 20]

Agreed.. I watch canoies open all the time while I'm still in freefall. The canopies are below me or on level with me, but because there is PROPER seperation it is never an issue. Not many freaks can take a glance right under them every second during a jump to make sure that a red and blue with 3 yellow striped canopy is'nt deploying right under them due to a premature deployment. I rely on proper seperation at exit to ensure that don't happen. No need to brief every group on canopies, just use a proper exit technique and its good. If some one opens early for any reason its not a concern since I'm using the safer horizonital seperation vs the unsafe verticle technique.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[haleyes 0]

Richard, please take this as light hearted as I mean it. :)
If you are going to correct someone's spelling ( "number one, tought is not a word, it's taught ..."), it is usually a good idea to check your own ( "... senseability).
Just laughing WITH you, not at you.
larry

[diverdriver 5]

Trey, good points and I don't see anything unsafe with that. You are correct about a flailing FF drifting further or sit flyers going first. Remember, we are trying to put together what works most of the time. You have pointed out a good exeption. As long as everyone understands what is going on.
Chris Schindler

[diverdriver 5]

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I saw very few people landing off the dz that week.

That's cuz I'm gooooooood. Actually, I like flying cross-wind JRs for that very reason.
Chris Schindler

[diverdriver 5]

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Pilots who use GPS have to learn a slightly different procedure too - like setting _two_ waypoints for the spot and making sure they fly a wind-corrected course between them.

Not necessarily. My Garmin GPS III Pilot has a data field that shows me off track in tenths and feet. I can adjust JR from one to the other for cross drift. I just always put in Direct To the center of the airport then use the moving map with the four fields to the right reading "Groundspeed, Distance to waypoint, distance x-track, time to waypoint". Works great so I don't have to keep moving the imaginary waypoints around.
Chris Schindler

[AndyMan 7]

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That's cuz I'm gooooooood.

I'm sure a 100 acre landing area has NOTHING to do with it, right Chris?
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[diverdriver 5]

That's 200+ acre landing area and you're right. Has NOTHING to do with it. Just ask Roger. He never misses that big lot right? It's ALLLLLLllllll just luck. Mmmmhhmmmm. I got your number mister. Come on....let's get you up in the air......I promise you won't "accidently" land off.
Chris

[quade 4]

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are you making the statement that this "safety precaution" NOT be taken under advisement?

Nope. I'm just saying that for all practical purposes, it's not going to work.
Hey, I'm not ridiculing you for trying, I'm just saying this method isn't practical and that relying on it is probably a really, really bad idea.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[quade 4]

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i once spotted a jumper landing off he was a visitor because i was familiar with his gear, i knew just who it was.

Just out of curiousity, how does that information help the jumper that landed off any more than simply knowing any jumper landed off? I mean, if it's your buddy you're going to tell the DZ that he landed off -- right? If it's a stranger, you're also going to tell the DZ -- right?
Or if your buddy has a cutaway, you're probably going to follow his gear or him down and you'd probably do the same for any other jumper wouldn't you?
I mean, when they need your help, a fellow jumper is a fellow jumper -- does it really matter who it is?
Also, something I didn't say in the other responce, just because I'm a camera flyer, doesn't mean I have a great view of the area below me. Sure, I have a GREAT view of the formation I'm shooting, but since that's what I'm shooting, that's also where my focus is and they're usually blocking at least a good portion of the ground below. I don't have any spare time to glance around looking for premature deployments until break-off right at about 4,000. If somebody decides they don't like the spot in the previous group and tosses out at 5,000 and we didn't give them enough room on exit, somebody is going to get hurt bad and at that point there's nothing anyone is going to be able to do about it.
As the camera flyer, I don't climb out until I'm damn good and ready. Just ask anybody I jump with! That includes checking the spot and waiting a proper exit interval. THAT'S what I count on to help keep me safe as opposed to looking around for high openers during freefall.
BTW, I mostly shoot 4-way. I usually only shoot big-way for special occassions now.
quade
http://futurecam.com

[rgoper 0]

**Are you kidding me? Now I have to remember the color of everyone's gear?! Ridiculous.**
did i not make my self clear, that i would disscuss this with the one, or two jumpers after me? i didn't mean to memorize everyone's gear. talk about taking a statement out of context. in any event, with the seperation, as it has been disscussed here, it shouldn't matter if you decide to dump early, should it? i'm just trying to figure out ways to be safer, and so should the rest of you, if ya'll have some better ideas, i'm all ears. cracking wise is not the answer though, that much i can tell you. i've deployed high on several different occasions, for various reasons, ie: others deploying higher, catching up to an 8 way, and watching them track below me, guess i should have just stuck to "my" dive plan, and kept falling? i know it's a pain to be safe, and to have to exert some extra energy to go that extra mile, but if it saves just one life, or one injury, was it worth it, a resounding YES! Richard
"Gravity Is My Friend"

[GrumpySmurf 0]

There is no such thing as a bad spot when Chris is flying, just varying degrees of really good - while he might have an elevated sense of self worth (a common condition amongst pilots ), when it comes to spotting - the 'boy' knows his stuff.

[AndyMan 7]

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There is no such thing as a bad spot when Chris is flying

Oh god. His head's about to get even BIGGER. Just keep in mind, you're risking his health. If you're not careful, it might explode. Do you want that on YOUR conscience?
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999

[kallend 2,026]

Why does it matter what COLORS your canopy has. Explain how knowing the colors will add the slightest little bit of safety.
I'll be sure to tell the 4-way teams practising at the DZ that now they have to remember the colors of the canopies of the folks going out ahead of them. They'll love that.

[AndyMan 7]

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I'll be sure to tell the 4-way teams practising at the DZ that now they have to remember the colors of the canopies of the folks going out ahead of them. They'll love that.

Yeah. Or tell that to the people behind the 10-way. That'll work...
_Am
ICQ: 5578907
MSN Messenger: andrewdmetcalfe at hotmail dot com
AIM: andrewdmetcalfe
Yahoo IM: ametcalf_1999