dsiegel 0 #1 April 13, 2002 I've been thinking a lot about the skills people need as they go from beginner to intermediate to advanced in this sport. Whether you're learning to do 4-way or head-down or swoop the pond, the single most influential factor in your learning curve is currency. But currency is hard to measure. You can have 10,000 jumps but only 50 of them in the last five years. You can have 500 jumps, but if they're spread out evenly over the last 8 years you're MUCH less current than someone with 100 jumps in the last 4 months. In general, you learn most when you're jumping more, because your first couple of jumps only help you regain what you've lost since your last jump, and only if you put 8 or more jumps together in a weekend can you make real progress. Then, the longer you wait to jump again, the more you lose and have to regain. Everyone asks how many jumps you have. That seems to be the measure of ability. But it's wildly inaccurate. On the other hand, having just one number is much easier to use than reviewing someone's log book. Because there are so many factors that go into communicating your current abilities, we tend just to judge people by how many jumps they have. And that's wrong. So I have an idea for a better number. One number people can use to explain where they are in their skills AND currency. This number is the answer to the question: How recent are your last 100 jumps? The answer is in months. If the answer is two months, you're probably a pretty capable skydiver, especially if it's April and you live in Chicago. If the answer is 15 months and it's the end of August, you may be comfortable getting out the door but your skills may not get you into a decent 4-way and freefliers may decline your offer to join them. If you have fewer than 100 jumps, then say you're a beginner and your most recent 50 jumps have been in the past X months. This method is flawed, of course. Consider someone whose number is 18 (months). If she made 99 jumps in the last 3 weeks, she's in much better shape than if she'd made 99 jumps a year and a half ago. But A) that's unlikely and B) the method is still MUCH better than asking how many jumps someone has made. This method has something else against it: you can't rest on your laurels. People who have 500 jumps but aren't very current would like to think they know a lot more and can outperform anyone with fewer jumps. Total number of jumps is a measuring stick that continues to grow with you as you get older and more out of practice. And for that reason it's a bad measure. So even though people might resist it, they must also see the advantage to them when learning about the skills of others. If it's what you'd want to know about someone else, it's what someone else would want to know about you. Sure, at the beginning of the season, everyone has higher numbers. But that only reflects reality: at the beginning of the season, few people are as current as they were last September. The number 100 is a question. Should it be 100? 200? 300? I'd argue that the right number is somewhere right around 100. We're trying to judge currency, not lifetime achievement. This measure is relative, not absolute. In practice, people will use it ALONG WITH the total number of jumps, and that's fine. For example, if someone says his currency factor is two months and wants to fly a wing suit or a board, he might say he's got 100 jumps in 11 weeks, then you can ask him how many jumps he has. Or you can do something better -- just ask how recent are his last 500 jumps. If he doesn't have 500 jumps, his answer to your question should be pretty low, around 12 - 14, before you'd consider advising that he jump a wingsuit or a board. The other factor now is tunnel time. Tunnel time counts, but only for flying skills, not for safety. So for safety's sake I would leave tunnel time out of this number and let people discuss it separately. Now the question of what to call it. I'll take a shot and call it your "MR100," which stands for your "most recent 100 jumps." If someone says "Hey, what's your MR100?", you simply say "Three months," or "About a year," or "Actually, I'm at seven weeks right now" -- something like that. If someone wants more information, rather than reverting to lifetime number of jumps, he can ask "okay, how about your last 200?" -- this really gives much better information than combining your last 100 with your total lifetime number. In context, people will probably say "last 200" rather than "MR200", and that's fine. If I could come up with a catchier name, maybe people would use that instead.I know this is less studly, but it's more accurate. People will continue to want to assess your skills -- and you theirs -- by asking a simple question and getting a simple answer. This doesn't do everything, but it seems a lot better than the answer we give now. So, what does anyone think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #2 April 13, 2002 David,I agree that currency is important. But if you are not current for a while it is not like starting all over again. A lot of it is like riding a bike and the muscle memory comes back easier than you would think. I quit jumping for over twenty years and on my first jump back I went out and did a five way with some old friends. This may not have been legal, but I'm glad I was able to do it. On my 2nd jump back I swooped down and turned some points on another friend. Sure I was rusty, but your flying skills will come back to you quickly. And I'm not suggesting that everyone should be this reckless. Maybe I should have done a hop and pop by myself. But I had confidence in myself and so did my friends. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #3 April 13, 2002 Agreed - the more experience you've got, it seems you need less currency. My CCI for example, rarely jumps (once every 3 or 4 months), but he can still fly well and land a 135 no problem. Currency is definatly required for safety's sake though. It would'nt be good coming back into the sport after a layoff and having to land a 99 sq/ft xbraced when you haven't jumped in 6 months. When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or loose, its how drunk you get. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #4 April 14, 2002 Alex,I don't know a whole lot about landing small canopies. I imagine that may be one area where currency is vital. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caseyusa 0 #5 May 16, 2002 What if we flipped the months and jumps part of your new idea... Rather than using months, several months, years, etc. Let's take the MR100 and flipp-a-roo.What's your CR(currency rating) for One Month? Your 1-Month CR? Your reply, is: 35 jumps.As in over the past month you've made 35 jumps. You could also ask the 3-M CR for how many jumps made in the last 3 months. This would get down to the nitty gritty details. If a team is doing hair raising RW and needs the hard core up to date very current folks.. they can ask your 1-Month... or a dropzone could ask for your 3month or 6month to decide if it's Refresher course time for you.If you apply to do a 30-way and your 1-MCR (one month currency rating) is: 2 jumps... you'll probably be asked to get more in before jumping with the group, regardless of your total jumps.I understand the earlier point of the skydiving knowledge coming back to you. I mean heck ya I haven't been on my bike all winter, and gee didn't even ride it that much last season. But do you think I'd be able to go ride it right now (assuming the tires have air)? You bet! But should I tackle a Downhill mountain biking tournament? Maybe you could, but I'd want to get a little more peddle time in before throughing myself down a mountain. It's a safety thing.By yourself- in the end it comes down to you. You pulling the rip, and you knowing what the hell you're doing. If you're rusty and kill yourself, it's your bad. However, if you're in RW and around other people it becomes more than that right? It's now their call on whether they want to jump with a 6-MCR of 4 jumps (6months, four jumps).There are flaws of course... After the winter blows over, those that didn't fly south for the sun will have low CR. But everyone knows that, so we take it in consideration.And maybe its this that makes the most sense. We could make a complex formula... CR over total jumps = main CR% or other modifications, but in the end it's down to us taking responsibility for looking over each other's logb.s and being brutally honest with ourselves (and our buds) with safety in mind.As a crazy vid dude said to me on my first AFF...him: "What's the most important thing to do?"me: " Pull!"him: "What's the second most important thing?"me: "umm.. ummm...????"him: "HAVE FUN!"me: "they didn't teach us that in class..."So safety first, and keep it real. We don't jump to have to go through safety procedures left and right. We jump to have FUN, and the safety procedures are what keep us alive to jump again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hobbes4star 0 #6 May 16, 2002 i jump with a group every 3-4 months. they take 3-4months off and then do 3 dives on a sunday, than they take another 3-4months off. i do 8-10 jumps a weekend and but i have only been jumping for about a 1.5years. while i am very current when i dive with them they never lose their ability, and are just as good as the last time they jumped. just my 0.02why jump when you can fly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caseyusa 0 #7 May 16, 2002 Kinda like drivin' stick... Me and my Wrangler communicate telepathically.To go up a gear, I think "5tttttthhhhhh geeeeeeeaaaar" and before I can say 'Jeep' it's been done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #8 May 16, 2002 Currency counts, but so does total experience. I'd rather do a big way with someone with 1000 jumps even if only 1 have been in the last 30 days then some one with 200 jumps with 50 in the last week. Just get to know your fellow jumpers and use personal judgement to figure out if you want to jump with them.No need to complicate things with fancy numbers.... Hell most people can't figure out wingloading let alone a currency number that the only people that care about it are the LO's. A good LO will be able to judge experience on a few questions.If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #9 May 16, 2002 Yup, I'm with Phree on this, know the abilities of those you jump with. Another thing is currency and jump numbers on type of jump.EG I have about 850 belly jumps, but the last 150 or so have been on my ass, so how good a freeflier am I? Would I still ba able to turn some CRW points???clue:- I flail h/d.....and ain't done any CRW for a couple of years.If we could all put our egos aside, and truly examine our own ability, currency, and shortcomings with a realistic perspective, we would probably all be a lot safer."A good LO will be able to judge experience on a few questions."And it will be confirmed after even fewer jumps with the person concerned.Its simply not that easy to put numbers to this sort of thing.CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookit 0 #10 May 16, 2002 QuoteCurrency counts, but so does total experience. I'd rather do a big way with someone with 1000 jumps even if only 1 have been in the last 30 days then some one with 200 jumps with 50 in the last week. Just get to know your fellow jumpers and use personal judgement to figure out if you want to jump with them.No need to complicate things with fancy numbers.... Agreed.QuoteHell most people can't figure out wingloadingSad...but true. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #11 May 16, 2002 Funny thing about re-currency jumps....... Both of them were chicks and one of them hadn't jumped in 5 years! (I'm on my 3rd yr.) Anyway, this jump was her 27th total and she did fantastic! Later that day I did JKA's re-currency. (eat your heart out, dudes) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jumperpaula 0 #12 May 16, 2002 Quote MR100," which stands for your "most recent 100 jumps. OK, I'll bite, MR 100 is 10/27 to 5/4, 6 months. 1 Month (using April) 19. So, what does that deduce about my currency? Fly your slot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #13 May 16, 2002 "what does that deduce about my currency"Umm dunno, but you should take real care packing my wee pal.....CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nacmacfeegle 0 #14 May 16, 2002 Sorry I should take it a little more seriously, My MR100 is similar to yours, but my RW is, as you well know is rusty to say the least, in fact its positively corroded...So do I get a slot on the forthcoming 120 ways ?The numbers are meaningless Paula, leave that to the scientologists.......Gotta go now, CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites caseyusa 0 #15 May 17, 2002 True.Numbers are just numbers, and if you kill me while in RW...My family will come after your family with their turkey rifles. ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevieBoy 0 #16 May 19, 2002 As a crazy vid dude said to me on my first AFF...him: "What's the most important thing to do?"me: " Pull!"him: "What's the second most important thing?"me: "umm.. ummm...????"him: "HAVE FUN!"me: "they didn't teach us that in class..."My R/S jm said on my L/8 hop &b pop @ 5000him: "What's the most important thing to do?"me: " pull"him: "No, What's the most important thing to do?"me: "umm.. ummm...????"him: "BUY BEER, the cloud is not so thick, TRUST ME, GO ""Skydiving's a source, it'll change your life, swear to God" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Jumperpaula 0 #12 May 16, 2002 Quote MR100," which stands for your "most recent 100 jumps. OK, I'll bite, MR 100 is 10/27 to 5/4, 6 months. 1 Month (using April) 19. So, what does that deduce about my currency? Fly your slot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #13 May 16, 2002 "what does that deduce about my currency"Umm dunno, but you should take real care packing my wee pal.....CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #14 May 16, 2002 Sorry I should take it a little more seriously, My MR100 is similar to yours, but my RW is, as you well know is rusty to say the least, in fact its positively corroded...So do I get a slot on the forthcoming 120 ways ?The numbers are meaningless Paula, leave that to the scientologists.......Gotta go now, CyaD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
caseyusa 0 #15 May 17, 2002 True.Numbers are just numbers, and if you kill me while in RW...My family will come after your family with their turkey rifles. ;) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieBoy 0 #16 May 19, 2002 As a crazy vid dude said to me on my first AFF...him: "What's the most important thing to do?"me: " Pull!"him: "What's the second most important thing?"me: "umm.. ummm...????"him: "HAVE FUN!"me: "they didn't teach us that in class..."My R/S jm said on my L/8 hop &b pop @ 5000him: "What's the most important thing to do?"me: " pull"him: "No, What's the most important thing to do?"me: "umm.. ummm...????"him: "BUY BEER, the cloud is not so thick, TRUST ME, GO ""Skydiving's a source, it'll change your life, swear to God" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites