Orange1 0 #1 December 27, 2005 I watched "Cutaway" the other night (ok, i'm still quite new at this ) .. and it got me wondering... do people really sit in the door while their rigs at the other side of the plane? More seriously , what I was wondering is: what is the record for an 8-way speed star? and what is the largest speed star done to date, and the time? (I did a search here but couldn't seem to find it.) Any other speed star trivia welcome!Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #2 December 27, 2005 FYI Most "old" speed star comps were 10 waysMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #3 December 27, 2005 ok ... any info on those?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #4 December 27, 2005 I can recall being in some 16-19 second 10 ways.......but I think the guys winning were turning 10-12 second times????? or faster?????? That's from my memory and has been an awfully long timeMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #5 December 27, 2005 I was on Jim Hooper's Ten High team in 1974. We took 4th place in the annual Turkey meet (of 105 teams) with average times in the high 13's. I believe the winning team from Deland had average times in the low 12's. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #6 December 27, 2005 Thanks Roger..... I knew there would be some Phlying Phossils that have a better memory than meMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #7 December 28, 2005 The GKs did a 10-way star from a current USPA legal all behind the diagonal line no-show exit in 11.52sec this year at Nationals. Majik Knights did it in 9.38sec in 2004 SDC-STL did it in 8.80sec in 2002 Here is a video of a 12 second star from a no-show exit.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #8 December 28, 2005 Awesome Thanks Doc!Marc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #9 December 28, 2005 When 10 ways were done out of DC3s we were allowed to hold on for exit. We were able to pull an entire 10 way out the door and make it round within 5 seconds. It was a five way round with a tail that whipped around to dock in between numbers 1 and 5 while a steering hanger climbed onto grips from underneath. I have been on sub 4 second 10 ways but we didn't do any in competition. I was on the team "Barely Legal" in 1986 that won the Nat's. The videos were awesome. It is more of an acrobatic feat than flying. The exit took less than 1.6 seconds from the first show of a body part to the last part exiting the a/c. Any slower and somebody was going to get hurt. Our best exits were in less than 1.4 seconds with the star completed under 4 sec. It rates as one of the biggest and best thrills of my life. Team Captain, Carl Daugherty, got so good at instructing the exit that teams with very few jumps were able to pull it off with some success. We practiced a tremendous amount to get it down and had some secrets that got passed on the Carl's next team. They in turn had their own secrets which shortened their exit dramaticly and helped them win yet again. Daryl Berger Danny Cuoco Danny Bachelor (RIP) Mike Johnston Carl Daugherty Jane Marchant (RIP) Mark Harrington Jon Stark Jack Jeffries Jen Wright Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #10 December 28, 2005 QuoteWhen 10 ways were done out of DC3s we were allowed to hold on for exit. We were able to pull an entire 10 way out the door and make it round within 5 seconds. It was a five way round with a tail that whipped around to dock in between numbers 1 and 5 while a steering hanger climbed onto grips from underneath. I have been on sub 4 second 10 ways but we didn't do any in competition. I was on the team "Barely Legal" in 1986 that won the Nat's. The videos were awesome. It is more of an acrobatic feat than flying. The exit took less than 1.6 seconds from the first show of a body part to the last part exiting the a/c. Any slower and somebody was going to get hurt. Our best exits were in less than 1.4 seconds with the star completed under 4 sec. It rates as one of the biggest and best thrills of my life. Team Captain, Carl Daugherty, got so good at instructing the exit that teams with very few jumps were able to pull it off with some success. We practiced a tremendous amount to get it down and had some secrets that got passed on the Carl's next team. They in turn had their own secrets which shortened their exit dramaticly and helped them win yet again. Daryl Berger Danny Cuoco Danny Bachelor (RIP) Mike Johnston Carl Daugherty Jane Marchant (RIP) Mark Harrington Jon Stark Jack Jeffries Jen Wright Right - it's not possible to compare times from the old rules with times from the current rules, since the exit is so critical. Fun event!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #11 December 28, 2005 Thanks guys for the info and video link! By current "legal" you mean unlinked exit? what elese? What does "behind the diagonal line" mean? Sorry for the dumb questions, i'd seen the term speed star before but otherwise learnt all i know about it from the movie, which is dangerous Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #12 December 28, 2005 QuoteThanks guys for the info and video link! By current "legal" you mean unlinked exit? what elese? What does "behind the diagonal line" mean? Sorry for the dumb questions, i'd seen the term speed star before but otherwise learnt all i know about it from the movie, which is dangerous In the video you can see a diagonal line marked on the floor of the plane, running from the front of the door frame across the floor to the opposite side of the cabin. In the current USPA rules for 10-way speed the team has to be behind this line, and the clock starts when any part of any jumper crosses the line. Here's another 10-way speed jump (not a star this time). www.iit.edu/~iit100/tfxdingo.mpg... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #13 December 28, 2005 The rules at the time of the example I posted above (1974) where that the clock starts when the judges, looking through telemeters, saw anypart of a jumper. We made our jumps from a standard door DC-3, so exit was single file, all facing forward, no floaters. I think the rules then were much more difficult than what I saw on the video as you can exit 10 people from that wide door much quicker than the DC-3 or Beech D18 doors used back then. Still looks like fun to me though! ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #14 December 28, 2005 The Sibson DZ in the UK has recently revived our 8 way speed star event. It is now held in September at the end of our season. It is a 'no show' competition but unlike the Americans we don't have a diagonal line to stand behind however no one can have any part of their body outside the door. I think the record is just over 8 seconds set quite a long time ago by the Red Devils parachute battalion team. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #15 December 28, 2005 QuoteThe rules at the time of the example I posted above (1974) where that the clock starts when the judges, looking through telemeters, saw anypart of a jumper. We made our jumps from a standard door DC-3, so exit was single file, all facing forward, no floaters. I think the rules then were much more difficult than what I saw on the video as you can exit 10 people from that wide door much quicker than the DC-3 or Beech D18 doors used back then. Still looks like fun to me though! Not sure I agree about the DC3. My recollection is that although the door is indeed narrow, the fuselage is so wide you can really line up for a perfect shot at it. That is not the case with the Otter, despite its wide door, on account of the placing of the line (current USPA rules) and the narrow fuselage (usually with benches). Regardless, I still maintain that comparing times from different eras with different rules and planes is an exercise in futility. It is indeed a fun event.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #16 December 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteThe rules at the time of the example I posted above (1974) where that the clock starts when the judges, looking through telemeters, saw anypart of a jumper. We made our jumps from a standard door DC-3, so exit was single file, all facing forward, no floaters. I think the rules then were much more difficult than what I saw on the video as you can exit 10 people from that wide door much quicker than the DC-3 or Beech D18 doors used back then. Still looks like fun to me though! Not sure I agree about the DC3. My recollection is that although the door is indeed narrow, the fuselage is so wide you can really line up for a perfect shot at it. That is not the case with the Otter, despite its wide door, on account of the placing of the line (current USPA rules) and the narrow fuselage (usually with benches). Regardless, I still maintain that comparing times from different eras with different rules and planes is an exercise in futility. It is indeed a fun event. I would tend to agree. I have not jumped the Otter in 10 man, so don't know the physics (no pun intended) of exit vs. the DC-3. Carl Daugherty was on the 1974 winning Deland team I spoke of above. He was also on the winning 16 and 20 man teams (as was I) that year. He was and is an excellent skydiver. Note: I might be off a year, could have been 1975. I can't tell from my photo album. Carl Boenish took the pictures of the 16 and 20 man team jumps that year. I was honered to be part of those teams that year. They were made up of the best from Z-Hills and Deland and were probably some of the best jumpers in the world at the time (IMHO). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #17 December 28, 2005 Having jumped both Twin Otter and DC3 in speed star comps...... the "3" was a bit easier for me anyway........ Lodestalls that would inevitably show up at the Zhills 10 way meets in the 70's were not that good.......they couldnt slow em down enough......and if you happened to pile up a lot of guys in the back of one on jump run.....Look OutMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #18 December 28, 2005 QuoteHaving jumped both Twin Otter and DC3 in speed star comps...... the "3" was a bit easier for me anyway........ Lodestalls that would inevitably show up at the Zhills 10 way meets in the 70's were not that good.......they couldnt slow em down enough......and if you happened to pile up a lot of guys in the back of one on jump run.....Look Out Well, Loadstars didn't just show up at Z-Hills, we owned one. As for piling up in the back, it certainly brought down more than one Loadstar, but had more to do with configuration and pilot skill than anything else. With Bill Buchman or Jeff Searles flying, I did not fear the "stall." Not sure about exit speed. We practiced from three different aircraft; the DC-3, the L-18 (Loadstar) and the L-10E (Like a twin Beech). I don't remember our times varying much, but I don't remember much anyway Bottom line, I defer to yours and Kallend's opinions as you have jumped both aircraft and I haven't. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #19 December 28, 2005 QuoteWell, Loadstars didn't just show up at Z-Hills, we owned one. There would always be 5 or 6 at the meets I attended.......I thought they just "showed up" I recall the exit speed on the Lodestalls being at least 15-20 knots higher than a 3 or an Otter........I might be wrong though.......an old diver driver could tell us for sure I might have a pic of your Lodestall somewhere........ when I have some time I will scan it in and let you knowMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #20 December 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell, Loadstars didn't just show up at Z-Hills, we owned one. There would always be 5 or 6 at the meets I attended.......I thought they just "showed up" I recall the exit speed on the Lodestalls being at least 15-20 knots higher than a 3 or an Otter........I might be wrong though.......an old diver driver could tell us for sure I might have a pic of your Lodestall somewhere........ when I have some time I will scan it in and let you know That would be cool, I have a lot of jumps from that Loadstar. I also flew right seat and did most of the flying to Aurora IL when we took it up there for the summer one year (Bill Buchman was the pilot in command). I talk with Bill every now and then, I'll ask him. BTW, he says the Skyvan is just as dangerous for the same reason (as the Loadstar). I believe he told me they (Deland) have a line painted on the floor that no one can go aft of unless the Pilot has indicated it's ok (he's ready in other words). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydog 2 #21 December 30, 2005 QuoteI think the record is just over 8 seconds set quite a long time ago by the Red Devils parachute battalion team. This is going to be sad, but the record is 7.62 seconds. I only know cos when we were training for the nationals the team leader was one of the record holders, and he only mentioned the record a.......few times. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Joellercoaster 6 #22 January 4, 2006 QuoteThe Sibson DZ in the UK has recently revived our 8 way speed star event. Is this the one with the "best second point" award? Some of those photos are classic...-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
RogerRamjet 0 #20 December 28, 2005 QuoteQuoteWell, Loadstars didn't just show up at Z-Hills, we owned one. There would always be 5 or 6 at the meets I attended.......I thought they just "showed up" I recall the exit speed on the Lodestalls being at least 15-20 knots higher than a 3 or an Otter........I might be wrong though.......an old diver driver could tell us for sure I might have a pic of your Lodestall somewhere........ when I have some time I will scan it in and let you know That would be cool, I have a lot of jumps from that Loadstar. I also flew right seat and did most of the flying to Aurora IL when we took it up there for the summer one year (Bill Buchman was the pilot in command). I talk with Bill every now and then, I'll ask him. BTW, he says the Skyvan is just as dangerous for the same reason (as the Loadstar). I believe he told me they (Deland) have a line painted on the floor that no one can go aft of unless the Pilot has indicated it's ok (he's ready in other words). ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydog 2 #21 December 30, 2005 QuoteI think the record is just over 8 seconds set quite a long time ago by the Red Devils parachute battalion team. This is going to be sad, but the record is 7.62 seconds. I only know cos when we were training for the nationals the team leader was one of the record holders, and he only mentioned the record a.......few times. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Joellercoaster 6 #22 January 4, 2006 QuoteThe Sibson DZ in the UK has recently revived our 8 way speed star event. Is this the one with the "best second point" award? Some of those photos are classic...-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skydog 2 #21 December 30, 2005 QuoteI think the record is just over 8 seconds set quite a long time ago by the Red Devils parachute battalion team. This is going to be sad, but the record is 7.62 seconds. I only know cos when we were training for the nationals the team leader was one of the record holders, and he only mentioned the record a.......few times. BrynJourney not destination..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #22 January 4, 2006 QuoteThe Sibson DZ in the UK has recently revived our 8 way speed star event. Is this the one with the "best second point" award? Some of those photos are classic...-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
