steve1 5
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Back in 72 or so a friend (who was a little bit newer to the sport than myself) went to check out some gear that an old jumper was selling. This other guy was trying to raise some cash for his new family, and he pulled out this canopy that we both thought was some type of para-commander yet it wasn't a P.C.
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Was it possibly a Wing? The Wing was a hot little canopy compared to the TUs and LLs of the time. It was only around for a few years before the squares came into being. They referred to it as a Rogallo Wing. I believe it was made by Irvin Air Chute.
Back in 72 or so a friend (who was a little bit newer to the sport than myself) went to check out some gear that an old jumper was selling. This other guy was trying to raise some cash for his new family, and he pulled out this canopy that we both thought was some type of para-commander yet it wasn't a P.C.
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Was it possibly a Wing? The Wing was a hot little canopy compared to the TUs and LLs of the time. It was only around for a few years before the squares came into being. They referred to it as a Rogallo Wing. I believe it was made by Irvin Air Chute.
In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
JerryBaumchen 1,367
A little trivia for you: The Rogallo wing built by Irvin actually was TSO'd by Irvin.
QuoteA little trivia for you: The Rogallo wing built by Irvin actually was TSO'd by Irvin.
Doesn't one of the Eastern Block countries have a Rogallo type canopy similar to the Paradactly that they use as a reserve?
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
JerryBaumchen 1,367
From what I've heard it a triangular shaped canopy. I do not know if it a Rogallo-type; Riggerrob??????
jimp 1
That's the PZ-81. It has assister pockets on the rear skirt and a reefed slider.
sprtdth 0
From what I understand, the Russian CRW Dogs still use the PZ-81 for a reserve. I know if it was TSO'd, I'd use it.
I do have a photo of one.....somewhere. I'll look
I do have a photo of one.....somewhere. I'll look
CRW Skies
Frank
CRW Diva #58
Frank
CRW Diva #58
Quote
That's the PZ-81. It has assister pockets on the rear skirt and a reefed slider.
Thanks,
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
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I started in 1966. My first 1200 or so jumps were on rounds. I used rear riser flaer on almost all of these, on all the canopies you mentioned. Rear riser flare properly executed get you nice landings. did rear riser flare on T 10 when in the military.
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Please tell me, did you execute the "rear riser" landings in a holding orientation or a running one? My experience has been that hanging on the rear risers while holding has the opposite effect of hanging on them when you are running.
Am I actually wrong, or have you guys forgot what jumping was like with the modified rounds?
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I started in 1966. My first 1200 or so jumps were on rounds. I used rear riser flaer on almost all of these, on all the canopies you mentioned. Rear riser flare properly executed get you nice landings. did rear riser flare on T 10 when in the military.
********************************
Please tell me, did you execute the "rear riser" landings in a holding orientation or a running one? My experience has been that hanging on the rear risers while holding has the opposite effect of hanging on them when you are running.
Am I actually wrong, or have you guys forgot what jumping was like with the modified rounds?
***
In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
Quote********************************
I started in 1966. My first 1200 or so jumps were on rounds. I used rear riser flaer on almost all of these, on all the canopies you mentioned. Rear riser flare properly executed get you nice landings. did rear riser flare on T 10 when in the military.
********************************
Please tell me, did you execute the "rear riser" landings in a holding orientation or a running one? My experience has been that hanging on the rear risers while holding has the opposite effect of hanging on them when you are running.
Am I actually wrong, or have you guys forgot what jumping was like with the modified rounds?
***
Two things happen when you pull down on the rear risers. First you move the apex vent off center increasing the drag coefficient a little which will slow the decent rate. Second you lower the rear of the canopy skirt in relation to the front skirt and this will reduce forward drive. If timed right at landing you will land softer with less forward speed. Results vary with canopy design.
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
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Two things happen when you pull down on the rear risers. First you move the apex vent off center increasing the drag coefficient a little which will slow the decent rate. Second you lower the rear of the canopy skirt in relation to the front skirt and this will reduce forward drive.
Sparky
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This is exactly what I meant. Reducing the forward drive is NOT what you want to do when you are HOLDING. It has the effect of increasing your ground speed.
I suspected that you guys had forgot all about the "running" and "holding" aspects of the TU and LL modded parachutes since no one has mentioned the difference. In a 15-mile per hour wind, running put you at somewhere near 30 miles per hour, and holding at somewhere near zero. Pulling rear risers on landing would increase your forward (ground) speed to 2 MPH or decrease it to 28 MPH, depending on your orientation. Most half smart jumpers opted for holding with the wind on landing, so why would anyone want to increase his landing speed?
Maybe someone who really remembers what jumping those old rounds was all about will help me out here.
Two things happen when you pull down on the rear risers. First you move the apex vent off center increasing the drag coefficient a little which will slow the decent rate. Second you lower the rear of the canopy skirt in relation to the front skirt and this will reduce forward drive.
Sparky
***********************************
This is exactly what I meant. Reducing the forward drive is NOT what you want to do when you are HOLDING. It has the effect of increasing your ground speed.
I suspected that you guys had forgot all about the "running" and "holding" aspects of the TU and LL modded parachutes since no one has mentioned the difference. In a 15-mile per hour wind, running put you at somewhere near 30 miles per hour, and holding at somewhere near zero. Pulling rear risers on landing would increase your forward (ground) speed to 2 MPH or decrease it to 28 MPH, depending on your orientation. Most half smart jumpers opted for holding with the wind on landing, so why would anyone want to increase his landing speed?
Maybe someone who really remembers what jumping those old rounds was all about will help me out here.
In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
wmw999 2,452
I have almost 500 round jumps. I pulled down the back risers and stood them up (a lot of them were barefoot, no less).
Other people have similar memories. Yet others remember pulling down the toggles.
Maybe the round canopies just didn't have all that much forward speed in the first place (especially modified cheapos). 15 mph is a ludicrous claim, based on my experience. My Starlite probably didn't get an honest 15, although I'd've liked to think it did.
Wendy W.
Other people have similar memories. Yet others remember pulling down the toggles.
Maybe the round canopies just didn't have all that much forward speed in the first place (especially modified cheapos). 15 mph is a ludicrous claim, based on my experience. My Starlite probably didn't get an honest 15, although I'd've liked to think it did.
Wendy W.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
ripcord4 0
Wendy, I agree that a forward speed of 15 MPH is ridiculous for a double L ot a TU. 6 to 8 might be a lot closer to the truth...I don't believe a Para Commander would give you 15 MPH forward speed. Someone really doesn't remember about rounds and it isn't us!
And I do most certainly know the difference between running and holding as I am still jumping rounds twice a month at Z-Hills.
And I do most certainly know the difference between running and holding as I am still jumping rounds twice a month at Z-Hills.
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And I do most certainly know the difference between running and holding as I am still jumping rounds twice a month at Z-Hills.
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I'm ready to give up on this. I feel like I'm talking to the old proverbial brick wall if you "most certainly know the difference between running and holding", and you are proud to claim there is something to be gained in pulling rear risers when landing in a holding orientation.
I am truly surprised that no one has stepped up to the plate to agree with me on this.
And I do most certainly know the difference between running and holding as I am still jumping rounds twice a month at Z-Hills.
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I'm ready to give up on this. I feel like I'm talking to the old proverbial brick wall if you "most certainly know the difference between running and holding", and you are proud to claim there is something to be gained in pulling rear risers when landing in a holding orientation.
I am truly surprised that no one has stepped up to the plate to agree with me on this.
In theory, there is no difference bretween theory and practice. In practice, however, there is. -
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
"RIP Forever Brian Schubert. Always remembered, Never forgotten" - Leroy DB
http://www.johnny
This sounds exactly like the canopy my friend bought. I don't know if there were ever many in production, but it sounds like some skydivers jumped them prior to the Para-Commander. After about 70 or so, they weren't worth much....Steve1
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