D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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In this case the only way for the rouse to work is by discovery, to leave it to chance if it is part of your escape plan makes little sense. Good points nonetheless.

Exactly. These are the points I was making. It's a $6,000 gamble and only helps authorities. The condition of the money does not support them being buried where they were found. Ckret, you can put the buried theory to rest simply by telling us how many bundles were in a brick. I guarantee it was not three bundles to a brick, it was likely 5 or 10.

Regarding Mayfield and his having students "buy" new facilities... the post itself outlines that he had robbed banks before. Why does he need to skyjack a plane? Go back to the questions I had and address them. The Mayfield theory hasn't been adequately explained for the FBI or anyone to truly accept it.

As for the money that was found. The condition & location do not support the splatter theory. They also do not support being buried at that location or really even buried at all.

Being buried in a container would support the condition of the bills, especially if they were buried in a container for 9 years compressed to each other (crammed in). Dumping a stack or several stacks of mildewy and rotten cash that had been underground in a less than airtight container would explain the condition. The location would also be explained if the dumping occured either adjacent or within a few miles east of where the money was found. The timeline on this would be pivotal as well, if too much time passes between the dumping and discovery, then we have the running water problem again. A person dumping a stack or numerous stacks of cash that were already rotted and compressed together only a few months before discovery would fit the facts. It would also address motive because the money would certainly have been rotted and damaged after 9 years.

Skyjack71's story is plausible. If her story isn't true, then a very similar situation must have happened.

[Orange1 0]

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He's gotten away with quit a bit. Stealing a plane across state lines, armed robbery . ( he did serve time! ) several jump school students "buying the farm".

He didn't get away with it if he served time! And he did get prosecuted for the student deaths - as per something i posted some months ago:

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In the Oregon case, Ted Mayfield—a sky-dive operator implicated in the death of thirteen parachutists in twenty-two years—pled guilty to negligent homicide after supplying a client with a backup parachute device that he knew was defective. He received a sentence of five months in jail, plus three years’ probation. The court also required him to pay $5,675 in restitution and to refrain from any future involvement with skydiving. ....
the whole tortuous legal document is athttp://lawweb.colorado.edu/.../ramsey/Hastings.pdf

I don't know much other about Mayfield than what I've read here and what was thrown up by a couple of internet searches, but he seems to have a history of being caught & punished rather than getting away with things, and that alone would make me think Cooper was someone else.

... i just wish someone would finally come up with something conclusive about WHO!!

btw - Ckret - re the discussion about the DNA on the tie - can you confirm or not if there was more than one person's DNA on the tie and if so, if all the DNA found was tested vs Duane? I am guessing that it would have been very difficult to wear a tie and not get any DNA on it at all, especially in an era when you think fingerprints are the only ID mechanism?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[grimmie 186]

Stashing the money for later pick up makes good sense. Just like stashing your base gear after a night jump. You walk out of the woods and if someone sees you and stops you, no evidence. You then come back and retrieve it.
We lost a base rig once...looked for it a LONG time in the woods.
Just a theory for our non jumping friends to ponder.

[Ckret 0]

Here's the scoop on the money. It was found in a area known as Tena's Bar which is just northwest Vancouver. The money was found 6 to 8 inches below the surface along the northern shore of the Columbia. This area was owned by the Fazio Brother's Farms.

The money was found with the rubber bands around the bundles. The rubber was described as very fragile.

The river in the area where the money was located had been dredged August 19 through the 25th, 1974. The dredge material was deposited on the banks of the Fazio Brothers farms and spread by front loaders.

A geology professor from Portland state studied the sediment from the location where the money was recovered. He determined the money could not have been deposited prior to the 1974 dredging operation. There was a clear delineation between the 2 sediment layers, pre 1974 and post 1974.

Had Cooper buried the money the night he jumped it would have been several feet below the 1974 dredged material and found in a different type of sediment then what it was discovered in.

The most likely scenario provided was that the 1977 Washougal River flood started the package of money on its journey from where it landed in 1971 towards the Columbia. Over time the bag and cords holding it together broke apart releasing the bundles of money.

Because it had been in the bag, the money had not began to disintegrate. Once out of the bag the money began it's slow rot, eventually making it into the Columbia sometime around late 1978 early 1979.

Once in the Columbia, the bundles began drifting down stream. It would have taken 14.7 hours for the bundles (if unobstructed) to make it to Tena's Bar, where 3 bundles washed up. Once on shore the money was covered over by sand, which acted as a natural preservative, leaving what was left intact until it's discovery four to 12 months later.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Exellent post!

For clarification, what type of bag did the FBI put the money in? What material was it made of? Where was the zipper (if there was one) located?

Second question, approximately where was the reported "blip" where they figured Cooper jumped? Some type of direction & proximity to a known landmark would be helpful (eg. 3 miles southeast of woodland). It wouldn't have to be exact, just close.

Was there any other river dredging from 74 to the time the money was found?

I'm going to have to look at some old maps to find this Tena's bar. I always figured it was within a reasonable distance to catepiller, maybe west to southwest of felida... as long as we're close, the location is elementary other than the terrain where the money was found.

Thank you Ckret for helping the community try to unravel some of the mystery.

[Ckret 0]

The money was provided by Seafirst bank which is now Bank of America. The money came from a fund that had been developed for situations like the Cooper hijacking. Seafirst security packaged the money (all of the serial numbers on the bills had been prerecorded by Seafirst) into a white cloth bag with no zipper or draw string.

The pressure bump occurred at 8:11PM, this put the fight in the area of Highland, Wa or grid 18 of a Clark County.

No other dredging occurred.

[awsee1 0]

Ckret,

I've been told by many, that the condition of that money and where it was found shows unmistakably that it was were it was buried for a long....long time.

The "Washoughal journey" just doesn't pan out, and I don't know of anyone worth a salt who supports that theory. Sounds like more "Himmelsbach" to me.

Why are you so rigidly "fixed" on the profile? Don't you think it's time that profile was relaxed in the interest of solving the case?



B.

[Ckret 0]

I can only relate to you what is in the case file. The individuals who gave their opinion did so after excavating the scene of recovery, reviewing the condition of the money and information of the day as it relates to the topography of the area.

If you have evidence that refutes the work they did i would like to have it.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Ckret didn't say that he agreed with the assessment, he only reported what they said at the time.

The reason I asked about the likely landing area is to determine what creeks might be around there. I too find it highly unlikely that the money traveled that far, but I will look at a map and draw my own conclusions.

If the money was above 1974 strata, then no amount of arguing would convince me it was placed there before 1974.

Also, if you believe the money was purposely planted there, then why are 10 bills missing? Even if 10 bills happen to just dissipate through time, there's only 3 bundles there. It's not probable that 3 bundles constituted a brick, which if buried would have been buried as a brick.

From what I can tell, it would seem Ckret has adequately dispelled the "buried" theory. If that money was buried, it was NOT buried where it was found.

No zipper or draw string on the bag... my instinct tells me this makes the splatter theory absolutely impossible. The money would not have remained dry for 6 years, let alone anything more than 6 years. This money would have began decomposing immediately. Already decomposing money flowing down high velocity creeks, on the face of it, doesn't sound as though it fits the theory, but like I said, I'll look at the landing area and draw my own conclusions.

Once again, great post Ckret.

[skyjack71 0]

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Why would Cooper bury the money?

He sure as hell couldn't make it out of town with a bundle on him or be seen carrying a bundle. Therefore he stashed it in different places - why? - just encase someone found the stash. Don't put all your eggs in on basket.

I have talked in the past about the flood having disloged or excavation having dislodge one of the packages - why he couldn't find all of it and how he knew it was worthless when I read the article to him in the paper. The river curves below the area he buried it in - and if the bucket or whatever he had it in was dislodged by the building of some very nice homes (there was an old cottage there in 1971) and between the excavation or flood it would have been in the water.

I am sure he had a land mark and that land mark was probably gone also as was the cabin in 1979. The money is then in the bottom of the Columbia after the flood or development and ends up at Tena's Reef ---- BUT that does not explain How he knew the condition of the bills and the paper bag he threw away about 30 minutes after we left the location up-stream. What does make sense is that he found part of it. That money is found four or five months later? (I only remember that we were there in the late fall.) Again I have explained all of this before including where he got the bucket - and a change of clothing...would like to know who owned that cabin on the river in 1971. Was from what I was told (by a resident or the area) a seasonal cabin for recreation .

No packages and no money to say "Here I am". By that time he has a beard and the dye is washed out...no way that anyone would think he was Cooper with the Bing Crosby composite that was circulating.

I have NEVER said that he buried the money in or near Washougal, only that I believe from the places he took me and the things he told me that he may have found a refuge there and because he knew the area. He knew there would be no fishermen in the LaCames cabins and it was very obscure. He told me that there used to be 3 cabins and in 1979 only the remanents of one foundation remained. He just has to get to the river and back to his car. He told me that the best way to get away with a crime was "Go Right Back At Them".

There was another cabin across LaCames (on the Southside) that he told me about. He also mentioned knowing a woman who lived there. I have always wanted to know who owned that property in 1971. I went there in 2001, and I saw a barn with a cottage beside it and then on down the road was another cottage - so I do not know which cottage he was talking about. In 1979 it was evident that the roads where dirt and clay - not paved and developed as I saw them in 2001. Again - I have NEVER revealed the details of the properties before, but now maybe someone will check the property records and tell me who owned those properties in 1971. Very interesting if one of those owners had a strange tale to tell about something unusual that happened a day or two after the jump. Food missing, clothes missing.?


Carr are you sure that just the name of the bank that was printed on it ? Wasn't there some other writing?

There was another bag in the yrs, but it was more of a golden beige and had a springy type opener on it. The other one - was folded - seemed to be just a heavy cloth. P.S. It would have been stupid to bury the money in the bag. He would also have secured and protected the money the best he could with what was available in the river shed. Lots of old buckets (feed and such) when I was there...the daughter told me that her dad always stored buckets there - never threw them away.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Erroll 80]

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This money would have began decomposing immediately.

Our money bills are made so that they do not burn or decompose very easily. Was that not the case with American bills back then?

[BillyVance 34]

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This money would have began decomposing immediately.

Our money bills are made so that they do not burn or decompose very easily. Was that not the case with American bills back then?

Not that I know of. Our money has been pretty easy to burn.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[skyjack71 0]

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The pressure bump occurred at 8:11PM, this put the fight in the area of Highland, Wa or grid 18 of a Clark County.

Pressure Bump: There would have been compression felt by the plane when the aftstairs had fully deployed. Cooper then BACKED down the stairway holding on to the rails. Then there would have been a blip when he let go of the stairway. He held onto that stariway because he was looking for a landmark. He did let go till he had to. I have the weather report for that night - and there was visibility. As for extreme cold (it would only have been for the time he held on and for about 30 seconds of free fall.) He missed his landing site. but he made do and he knew the area like the back of his hand.

The chute he buried behind a tool shed at a tower (from the things he said and where he took me I believe this to be a fire tower). There was no tower there in 1979 and he thought he had taken a wrong road (path) - we didn't have time to go back. The shed he said was were they stored their tools - this is what made me think Fire Tower. He pointed North of there and commented something about from how far you could see the tower light. This area was forested. He said something about the path north of the tower, but I do not remember what he said. Geeze, I just remembered what he said - God, I was a dumb bunny!

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I'm not sure how the composition of our bills has changed over the years.

I'm basing my assumptions on our bills being a blend of paper fiber & cotton. Both are susceptible to mildew & mold. If I leave a shirt outside for a few days it will begin to have a mildew smell. In the fall in the NW, the amount of moisture in the air due to humidity and rain would be substantial. Over time, this would only get worse.

The bag would protect the bills for some time. How long would be speculation, but I'm sure it would not be 6 years. Since the bills were deposited post 1974, then we know we have at least 2 to 3 years of decomposition. If you believe in the splatter theory, then you also have to believe this same money traveled several miles through course and high velocity creeks. Like I said, I will eventually look at the landing site to get an idea of what creeks would be around, especially if there are any creeks that feed into Washougal.

On the face of it, I find it highly improbable that money found its way to the Columbia through several small creeks or streams, but without taking the time to actually look, the theory would seem plausible. After the money was found, Himmelsbach believed that Cooper survived the jumped and sought out water and died near water. That's a lofty explaination for the facts. I will visit some old vancouver maps at the regional library later on in December. I will post my thoughts at that time.

Someone hiding the money for several years and then discovering it's been ruined through years of dark moisture does fit the facts quite nicely. Cooper surviving, burying the case & parachute, carrying the money bag to a creek and then dying (without a body ever being found) seems a bit of a stretch to maintain the splatter theory.

Simply put, the money that was found seriously jeopardizes the splatter theory. To feed into Washougal would require a creek running east. Most creeks that I'm aware of run west and would feed into the Columbia down stream from where the money was found... but I would like to confirm this.

[Orange1 0]

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I'm not sure how the composition of our bills has changed over the years. I'm basing my assumptions on our bills being a blend of paper fiber & cotton. Both are susceptible to mildew & mold.

From the US Treasury website:

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Currency paper is composed of 25% linen and 75% cotton. Red and blue synthetic fibers of various lengths are distributed evenly throughout the paper. Prior to World War I the fibers were made of silk.

So, sounds like last change in composition was long before DB Cooper. The fact that they are made from linen/cotton rather than paper is why you can still use your money after it accidentally stays in your pocket through a washing machine. Not sure how that compares to years of being in water though.

Edited to add: there are some pics of what happens to buried or water damaged currency here! :
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/section.cfm/8/39

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Excellent!

The composition of the bills couldn't be totally linen & cotton. Some of it has to be paper, or else it couldn't tear. Still, if I want to run an experiment, it would seem using one of today's dollar bills would be similar to the 20s of the mid to late 60s (which is probably the majority of the loot given to Cooper).

Ckret... did the FBI ever test the specie of mold on the money? We can assume what organisms might have been growing on it, but I'm curious if this is already known.

[Orange1 0]

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The composition of the bills couldn't be totally linen & cotton. Some of it has to be paper, or else it couldn't tear.

The "paper" is made from cotton...not wood pulp which is what you will be thinking of as "paper"... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cotton_paper

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Thank you.

So it's the linen they put into the bills to strenthen them, NOT the cotton. Got it.

[NickDG 23]

Just some Cooper odds & ends . . .

The control yoke from the Cooper 727 is here:

www.angelfire.com/il2/aphs/wheels/wheels.html

And Brian Ingram, the 8-year old boy who found the money ($5800) is grown up now and selling some of the bills . . .

[From the Website] "His life now is quiet compared to the time when he was eight years old and suddenly found himself in the spot light of cameras and news reporters.

It was a day that changed the Ingram lives when Brian uncovered three bundles of tattered bills from a Columbia River sandbank.

It was evidence in Americas most famous hijacking that still goes unsolved today. For the past 20 years the bills have been apart of a private collection treasured as a family heirloom. Not until recently has Brian decided to part with some of his treasure."

In all 29 bills are for sale, some are partial bills and some almost intact, and you can make offers via email here:

www.dbcoopermoney.com/default.htm

I wonder what he thinks they are worth?

The last attachment is from an Asian site I couldn't read, but is supposed to be an aged sketch of D.B. Cooper.

NickD

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Very interesting pictures.

I was curious why Ckret never mentioned the size of the bricks. Suppose there were no bricks, only bundles of 100 (so 100 total bundles of 100 bills each secured by a ruberband). In this case there's really only two plausible theories:
1. The money was buried there
2. The money was buried somewhere else

The reason is because of the compression. The bundles were all sticking to each other. You could argue they stuck to each other because sitting under 6 to 8 inches of sand and decomposing would provide enough compression & "muck" (as we're told) to glue these three bundles together.

However, we know they weren't purposely buried there. You might argue they were placed there post 1974, but it wouldn't make any sense.

If there were no bricks and only bundles, this would mean the bills washed up ashore already stuck upon each other. This would imply compression during the rotting. This would not fit the "most likely" theory that investigators came up with in early 1980.

I highly doubt the bundles would stick to each other all the way down several high velocity creeks and streams. The whole bag would have had to go down those streams carrying all the money with it, and there would be water in between the bundles preventing them from sticking to one another very strongly.

If there were bricks, then we can say the bundles stuck to themselves because the rubber band(s) held the bundles together. Otherwise, we're back to only one possibility: the money was buried elsewhere and somehow washed up at Tena's bar.

[Ckret 0]

The money was packaged in varying amounts, so one bundle would have $500.00 another $1,000.00, there was no uniformity to it. I have been searching for the evidence report from the lab but have not found it yet, lots of files to go through. When I get it you'll be the second to know.

[skyjack71 0]

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The money was packaged in varying amounts, so one bundle would have $500.00 another $1,000.00, there was no uniformity to it. I have been searching for the evidence report from the lab but have not found it yet, lots of files to go through. When I get it you'll be the second to know.

_________________________________________________

The note from Oakdale had a penciled mailing address. Did you read that - Penciled? Just like the pencil notes I found in something else regarding the crime that would not be common knowledge. Oakdale - that is very significant.

Seems like anything that could tie Duane L. Weber to the crime is missing. 1. The hotel registration, 2. The Oakdale note, 3. The cigarette butts.

Without those cigarette butts you do not know if the DNA that was found belonged to Cooper.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

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The last attachment is from an Asian site I couldn't read, but is supposed to be an aged sketch of D.B. Cooper.

and they got the idea he would be wearing an adidas shirt from....?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Guru312 0]

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Just some Cooper odds & ends . . .

NickD

Despite my feeble attempts at humor in regard to the DB Cooper mystery with my sig line, I want to thank NickDG, Ckret, Safecrack, Orange and the others who have popped up recently to add input to this mystery.

I've been following the DB mystery since a few hours after his jump when I heard a radio newsflash. I'm fascinated and pretty much a DB-data junkie.

The depth of research and thought you folks are bringing to the whole issue is refreshing and much appreciated. The level of "professionalism" and lack of personal attacks in the posts are also appreciated.

Thanks...and keep of the wonderful work!

Oh, by the way, I am still not DB Cooper.

Guru312

I am not DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

Thanks to a "tip" http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/dbcooper.htm

I'm told they are fascinating

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.