D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I'm posting all these because they WILL eliminate a lot of speculation.

Maps 40-49.

The main one here to focus on is map 46.

North of 46 are where the northern tributaries adjoin the Columbia.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Last one. You're as glad as I am, I'm sure.

Map 50 showing the Lewis River(s) adjoining the Columbia.

Red Zone & Hot Zone aerial maps that I had to size down because they were too big!

The hot zone map shows the approximate vector of flight 305 along with the area that can possibly contribute to the Cooper ransom floating into the Columbia.

Now that I've completed this study, I am the first to admit how utterly FOOLISH I was when I said there were hardly any creeks that go east.

There are plenty, it's a question of where they all go. Throughout these maps you will see arrows showing you the flow of water. In some cases, I've actually noted what bigger rivers or creeks they all flow into.

As stated, you can go in and double check my work.

It's very late, but I look forward to some discussion of this post.

Did Cooper die?
I know Himmelsbach for a very long time believed Cooper made his way to a stream and then died.

I think the streams that feed into LaCamas are a much weaker argument than Washougal. The reason is because the body/money would have had to float in the lake. Nowadays there's a lot of boating that goes on there, and there's hundreds of houses. I'm not so sure how it was in 71-79.

I used the map released by Ckret that shows the flight path. If my assumption about this flight path is incorrect, please let me know and I'll do my best to ammend the map.

[skyjack71 0]

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The major names that I keep seeing tossed about are Christiansen, McCoy, Weber, and Mayfield.

Using DNA, Weber has been excluded.
McCoy shouldn't be a problem.

The FBI cannot exclude Duane Weber without proof that the Tie was actually Cooper's tie and that it is not a throw down. Doesn't make sense that someone so careful of fingerprints would leave a tie with a clasp and possible prints. Such careful planning and then leave a tie - does not maike sense.

Face it - THe FBI is not going to do anything until they have more evidence - One just as well check the DNA against James Earl Ray who was in prison at that time.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[awsee1 0]

Very little chance the money washed down stream with what is known about the Ingram find. No Hydrologist needed. And..."very little" is an understatement at that. Not only is there evidence to support this, there is also something known as basic human logic.

I never cease to be amazed how readily you can hire someone who is purported to be an "expert" to support whatever you want.

The money at Tena's bar was buried there.


B.

[skyjack71 0]

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The money at Tena's bar was buried there.

Absolutely NoWay that money was buried there - Talk to Ingram and you will find all he did was take his little 10 yr old hand across the sand - he was not digging. It was just below the surface approx 3 inches. If it was buried there - a lot more of the bills would have been found.

They use 1979 technology on the testing of those bills and todays technology will show something very different. Note: that Ingram has one of the bills on auction at this time.

[awsee1 0]

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The money at Tena's bar was buried there.

Absolutely NoWay that money was buried there - Talk to Ingram and you will find all he did was take his little 10 yr old hand across the sand - he was not digging. It was just below the surface approx 3 inches. If it was buried there - a lot more of the bills would have been found.

They use 1979 technology on the testing of those bills and todays technology will show something very different. Note: that Ingram has one of the bills on auction at this time.

You need to stop the charade and look at this logically as independent experts have. The money was buried there. You don't have packs of 20's making their way down the Washoughal(sp?) over time and then somehow randomly packing themselves together at Tena's bar. It just doesn't work. The forensic work on the condition of the bills also supports this. These bills did not rough and tumble down the Washoughal or any other trib, they'd have been reduced to rubble, pure and simple.

The Washoughal (sp?) or any similar theory of transport is by and large ridiculous.


B.

[Orange1 0]

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my personal opinion is that the DNA will never be matched to any suspect.

There's two possibilities that lead to this conclusion:
1. If Cooper died, no suspect will ever match the tie.
2. If Cooper left the tie on purpose without ever wearing it himself, no suspect will ever match the tie.

So you are unwilling to accept the possibility that the tie was Cooper's and that he survived?

I don't buy the argument that he left the tie without wearing it himself. I don't know for certain, but I imagine it was pretty difficult to lift fingerprints off fabric in those days. So why "plant" it? Certainly not for DNA, this all happened long before DNA was sequenced (is that the correct term?), let alone DNA testing done on criminals. If he handled the tie, it will have his DNA on. And if he planted the tie... why all the fuss about the missing cigarette butts? Why would he have planted the tie and left behind butts that could be used? Were the butts also planted then? If so, they will prove nothing either. The whole line of argument around planting the tie, yet thinking the butts will be useful, to my mind is contradictory. I think it's more likely he left both behind, thinking fingerprints could not be lifted off them, without realising the advances that would be made in DNA etc in years to come.

I do agree that the main function of the DNA tests will most probably be to eliminate suspects. One already has been, let's see what happens with the others.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

You are showing a lot of maps and I have a hard enough time with regular maps...but I am going to recount the trip as best I can remember that we went on in 1979. I went back out there in 2001 but the "guide" didn't have a clue where the things were that I was describing and the drove me around and I was just lost.

OUR TRIP TO WA IN 1979
Some locals invited me to spend an extra night and go out with them to look at some areas they thought matched what I was looking for. The TV crew the prior day found a spot that was similar but not it. Perhaps I would never have found the places I was looking for if it had not been a woman I labeled "My Angel Udell" because later I found the contact information she gave me was all false.

When I met the people who were going to take me to some places I told them where I wanted to go first. The woman who I call the River Lady from the day before had called the hotel and told me there was something she wanted to show me - it was the area or very close to where Duane had taken me on our return trip where he left me in the car and went down to the Columbia.

Perhaps NO ONE is interested in this but I think those who live in the area might be able to shed some light on this trip. Bear in MIND that he DID NOT use a MAP during any of this.

Now back to the trip to Seattle:
We spent the night at the THE DALLAS or somewhere close. He set his alarm and told me that I could sleep in as he had some place he needed to go - he returned around check-out time and cleaned up. We went a short ways before crossing over to the WA side. He pointed N telling me down that road was the Hood River, but we were not going there. About there we crossed the Columbia on what I thought was the Bridge of the Gods, but now know after seeing a pic of this bridge - we crossed some place else. It was a high structure and he seemed impressed by the area - to the East - a lot of boats. Then we went W on hwy 14. Much further down the hwy he states that he thought he missed his turn - and I proceed to reach for the map.

Just about the time he finds his turn - I have found it in the Atlas. This Atlas had an unusual marking at that point. We proceed into Washougal and go to a cemetery (I don't think he ever said why). I still don't know why.

We went to a large river (which I now know to be a Lake)...before getting there we past a lot of farm land and pastures with cows. Then made a left onto a road that ran along this "river" - note he never corrected me and let me think it was a "river".

We got to an area that was like a large camp ground with dirt, gravel and scrappy trees. There was a point with a steep drop to the water. We get out and he shows me the foundation to one building and said at one time there were three cabin used by fishermen. Pointing across the lake was a dirt logging road going parallel with the "river" to the W and told me there was a logging camp down that road (which I now know to be a feeding camp). A dirt road going up the hill to what I now know as south was a Cabin and he knew the woman who used to live there. To the E. he said there used to be a tower...I do not recall what kind of tower.

I now know this was Lake LaCamas and there was a scout buiding there when I went back in 2001. I stopped at a camp up the road and a man told me that the water was lower in the fall of 1979 then it was now in the spring of 2001. He asked me if I saw the lily pads and told me that the water dropped off at that point - he pointed to a 5 yrs old tree and then to a 25 yr old tree...then I knew I had found the right place - it looked right but changed.... 21 yrs later.

We left there and went up the road and went to our right - it was narrow climb not paved all of the way. At the end of this road was a fenced field - with a gate. There were basket size rocks in this field - he pointed across this area to the N.W. and said there were power lines that you could walk under forever before the undergrowth and also pipe lines that intersected in the North. When we left there going back he pointed out a tributary and said that is were Cooper walked out of the woods. I guess he was telling me but I missed it - remember everyone thinks my roots are blonde.

He also pointed out a large house he called a Mansion and said the he knew a man who worked and lived on the property - as a caretaker. Can anyone verify this for me?

As we were leaving that area because of what he said - I noted the only landmark sign I could find and would not remember the name of it until that day when I went back in 2001 - I was screaming TURN TURN and the driver commented that the only way to water was to turn there. I remembered the name of the road when I saw it. My memory said Ledbetter on the sign - he mentions an airstrip, but I couldn't see it - somehow on a road that was not on an old map of 1978 I found we are back in Washougal -( because he went North and then back toward Washougal - the only explanation I have been able to find is that he did not go past the airstrip as I see it we returned on Robinson Road to 383rd Ave back into Washougal.)

I am getting restless and he said that he had one more place to go - we end up going up the Washougal for several miles and there is a trailer area there - he states he used to know someone who lived there. At this point we turn around (I found this area on my return trip in 2001). Then we go back toward Washougal and he is agitated because he thinks he missed his road - When I was out there in 2001 the driver took me up the Blair Road and it did not look right. We were on the Coffey Rd. I remember after we got on that road that I looked at a map to see were it went -I now think this is why I couldn't find another area he took me to - they had me on the wrong road. (This is important as later on he takes me to the fire tower that wasn't there and that had a shed that he buried something behind.) I still don't know where that is.

Back to being on Coffey Rd - He points out an area where Camp Bonneville is and tells me about 2 guys who tried or did escape and a very high fence which I did not see. Talks about a stream on the site and others N and W of there. He tell me about Livingston Mt, Stud Mt, and Little Baldy. He again
points out the area that the Pipelines run through and again that yrs ago you could walk for miles. He talked about how they the power and pipelines intersected.

After this is were I get LOST. We end up on 500 which he was surprise to find they had finished it that far...how DID HE KNOW THIS MJCH about an area he supposedly never lived in.

At this point is when I need the help of the locals.I will tell you what I saw in another post and you tell me where I am at...(there is much more to the trip before we get onto I-5) because we end up in an area they store little rail cars.. I have been doing this all night and because I want to get it right I will finish it Sunday Eve --- at that point since the FBI thinks Duane could not be Cooper - I am going to call it quits and head out do do some research on my own and take the time I need to do somethings that might lead to some answers since it is obvious that the FBI is not, did not and has no intentions of investigating Duane at his time due DNA which I contend is compromised or incorrect and/or the tie was a throw down.

I will admit that I am "ascared" to do some of the things I am going to do, but I would rather die knowing the truth than not.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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So you are unwilling to accept the possibility that the tie was Cooper's and that he survived?

My apologies for being so vague in my writing. Unwilling to accept the possibility? That's the entire crux of what I think. I deal in probabilities. According to my post, all I said was I personally think a person can only assign maybe an 80% probability that Cooper actually wore the tie. Maybe in your mind, it ought to be a lot higher of a probability, but I personally find the whole tie a little suspect and therefore say there's a 20% chance it was left on purpose, 80% chance it was not.

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I don't buy the argument that he left the tie without wearing it himself.

I guess technically I don't either since I'm only assigning what I believe to be reasonable odds of this at 20%. Regardless if you agree with the 20% number (it is arbitrary afterall), the point is that there is some percentage that would resemble the odds of this tie being left purposely behind. Depending on how likely you think it is that Cooper would do such a thing would influence the probability you think should be assigned to it.

I highly, highly doubt that those odds ought to be less than 10%.

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I don't know for certain, but I imagine it was pretty difficult to lift fingerprints off fabric in those days.

Why is everyone so obsessed with thinking that I'm talking about the fabric? There's a metallic clip at the top and a clasp that was on it when found. Those are two big reasons I think the probability is around 20% that Cooper left the tie on purpose.

Is it possible that Cooper did not realize that prints would not/could not be lifted off of two metallic pieces of the tie?

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And if he planted the tie... why all the fuss about the missing cigarette butts?

Quite simply because you can double check the DNA on the tie against the cigarettes. If there's multiple donors on the tie, you can isolate which one is Coopers by cross referencing the results. There's a chance, however, that the DNA on the cigarettes would not match any of the DNA on the tie... this would certainly be the case in the unliklihood that Cooper purposely left the tie behind.

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Why would he have planted the tie and left behind butts that could be used?

Well, under my 20% scenario? The reason would be because he obviously was not threatened by prints on cigarette butts. This may have also been faulty thinking on his part... can't they lift prints from paper? Therefore Cooper would have to believe they can pull prints from the metallic portions but cannot lift prints from fabric or paper.

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Were the butts also planted then?

I stated on another post several weeks ago that I felt this was highly unlikely. Why? Well, if he actually believed prints could be lifted from cigarette butts, then he'd have to steal cigarettes from the same person he got the tie from. I see this as redundant and unnecessary, even under the 20% scenario.

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I think it's more likely he left both behind, thinking fingerprints could not be lifted off them, without realising the advances that would be made in DNA etc in years to come.

Would you say around 80% likely? LOL. Of course Cooper is totally unaware of DNA, that's not even worth mentioning really. The more relevant question is, did he think they would get some partial prints off of the metallic portions of the tie? If by chance he did, then it would explain why it was left behind and why it had the clasp still on it (even though a person would typically have to remove this before removing the tie).

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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You are showing a lot of maps and I have a hard enough time with regular maps

Use the very first map that I posted in part 1. It will show all of Clark County with some numbers superimposed over it. Those numbers correspond to all the other numbered maps.

I was getting lost with this myself, which is why I made that master guide to help you figure out the area each map was showing you.

[Orange1 0]

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[According to my post, all I said was I personally think a person can only assign maybe an 80% probability that Cooper actually wore the tie.

sorry, i should have been awake enough to carry through what you were saying about 1 in 5 to determine what you meant without you having to spell it out btw most people dealing in "real world" probabilities - like i do in my line of work - would consider an 80% probability to be very high indeed. Maybe that's why I found your argument that the DNA from the tie wouldn't mean much, to be odd. To my way of thinking - on your probability, there is a very good chance indeed that Cooper wore the tie, ergo an elimination based on that to me would carry a lot of weight.

Re the fingerprints and metallic bits.. I dunno, maybe. Is it possible that Cooper didn't really care because his fingerprints were not on file anywhere? I guess though this would rule out both anyone with a prison record as well as military (if i am correct in my understanding that military recruits were fingerprinted?). Or, perhaps, thinking that as a full fingerprint could not be lifted off the bits, it didn't matter? btw I cannot recall now - were partial fingerprints actually lifted off those bits? Or were they wiped clean?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

The Trip to Seattle (the last part).
I still haven't slept, but have to get this done. It is Noon time in Fl. so I have been 32 hrs without sleep. This next part is where I need all the help I can get from those of you who live in WA. and lived there in 1979. I did not find this when I was out there in 2001. So it is entirely from looking a map with NO detail and very small.

After turning on that Coffey Rd we went a long way and lots of turns - and ended up on other roads. I do know there was a point were we converged with another intersecting rd. went North before we went to a 4 lane...this was not a well populated area.
.
He said this was our last side trip before heading to Seattle as we were pushed for time. Somewhere in this mess he pointed out an area called Green Mountain and said there was something on it (I just don't remember what he said) and near an airport. It was at this point that we went North.

We reached an area where the road crossed the pipelines - I think that is what he said. Down this road he turned onto another road - there may have been more turns before the dirt road. When we turned on to this dirt road we went in quiet a ways to a clearing - we were in the woods. This is when he thought he must have missed the road and it was the one before, but he must have satisfied himself that we were in the right place and the Tower was gone. He said it had a light on it (do fire towers have lights?). He pointed on down the road not well traveled except for four legged or hunters or such. He said down that road thru the forest was a railroad track built by the logging industry. He talked about burying something behind the shed that used to be there.

We left and got back to the paved road - at this point I am lost. He proceeded to an area where they store rail equipment , but we went no further - he said that the rails went on - he mentioned Battleground Lake and Yalcolt and the area where the rails went deep into the forest...he named a lot of Indian sounding names...We went back toward Vancouver the way we came and got on 500. He stated he was surprised they had finished the 4 lane that far.

Dollars Corner and that he knew a man there. I went to Dollar Corner in 2001 and asked a lot of questions. One man (named Snow) pulled me aside and gave me the directions and the a man I was to find. He claimed to have remembered the man in the picture I showed and that he used to get up and sing with the band...and that this other man was a hermit type but that he knew him....the crew and I never found the man and they had a schedule. I also did not have time to go back on my own with the ladies (one was an undercover Narco off-duty doing this as a favor).

I hope you guys can follow this. I know I am bouncing back and forth from the 1979 trip and the 2001 trip. On I-5 he points out another cemetery East of the highway, around that time he mentioned a little town to the West of I-5 across the Columbia called St. Helens and that he use to know a woman there ---said she ran a store (didn't say what kind of store). He talks more about Power lines and Pipe lines.that go down to Dollars Corner.

After we passed the Lewis River that went to Lake Merwin - it was getting dark and he told me to go to sleep - that there wasn't anything but forest from there on till we got to into the Seattle area.

I have not been able to find HOW Duane knew about these power lines and pipe lines and where they ran - I can only put him in WA. for the time he was in McNeil in the early 40's as a 19 yr old in prison. He knew this area like the back of his hand.

HOW he knew all of this and the FBI should be able to obtain work details from the prison and SS records. This would help to find how long and when he was in this area....surely they are willing to do that.]Did he work for the company building these lines?

The locals might be able to shed some more light on thisand how he knew all of these details. I believe I have told all I remember about that trip.

I think he used these things to find his way around. He was also timing the trip from take-off in order to be in a certain area and knew that the plane could only fly at a certain speed with the stairs down He hit his territory, but NOT on target - but to the extent he was not lost.

I do not know why he told me all of these things but he did - he was banking my roots actually being blond, but what would he have done if I had figured it out at that time? After the money was found and my wanting to see that program, the heat was on Cooper again - he had to get out of the West and this is why he lied about his territory being taken away and we went to a job that just didn't pay and he was with this company before and knew it didn't pay well. The move made NO sense at all. We were doing great financially - we were happy and my daughter was content - she graduated from Ft. Collins and went back out there after we moved South.

I hope someone can help me make sense out of all of this - to me - ALL OF THIS - the strange life we led - the other strange things that happened - the items I saw and held in my hands and his confession - THERE IS ONLY ONE CONCLUSION I can find at this time -he was - D.B. COOPER.

it is true and I hope I find resolution before long. I hope that some of you can see why the DNA doesn't mean diddly-squat to me.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Good questions! I did ask if any partial prints were ever lifted but Ckret just said the metallic portions were too small for prints.

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Is it possible that Cooper didn't really care because his fingerprints were not on file anywhere?

That's actually Skyjack71's hypothesis... well, in a round about way. She believes her husband was able to alter his prints at one of the facilities-which was the facility that fed into AFIS. She has posted on here that someone told her all the errant prints were believed to be found and corrected, but she contends it's possible they didn't find all the prints that were altered. This, however, is a whole different subject matter that may or may not be relevant to the Cooper heist.

Cooper not caring about his prints because they weren't on file is certainly a possibility. There's one reason though that I don't believe this to be the case... if he was ever caught for something else and fingerprinted, the fingerprints would match prints found on the plane. Whether or not Cooper would have this fear, I can't say... I can only say that I'd certainly have that fear.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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look at this logically as independent experts have. The money was buried there.

Please refer us to said experts that have concluded the money was buried. I'd love to hear more as I'm sure most everyone on here would.
Thanks.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

For those of you interested...

If you look at the "hot zone" aerial map that I created, you will see the yellow line begin right west of Merwin Dam.

According to the FBI map showing known locations of flight 305, the craft begins at the top of this line precisely at 2010... or 8:10 pm.

We've been told the pressure bump occured at roughly 8:11.

Let's give a range for fudge factor... suppose a minute early and a mintue late, thus the jump occured between 8:10 & 8:12. Traveling 200mph on this vector, how far south could have Cooper jumped?

200 mph = 3.33 miles per minute.

I can tell you for reference purposes, if you trace the vector from the beginning to where it crosses the 205 (which BTW was not there in 71), it's roughly 30 miles of flight, or 9 minutes.

[SkydiveJack 1]

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For those of you interested...

If you look at the "hot zone" aerial map that I created, you will see the yellow line begin right west of Merwin Dam.

According to the FBI map showing known locations of flight 305, the craft begins at the top of this line precisely at 2010... or 8:10 pm.

We've been told the pressure bump occured at roughly 8:11.

Let's give a range for fudge factor... suppose a minute early and a mintue late, thus the jump occured between 8:10 & 8:12. Traveling 200mph on this vector, how far south could have Cooper jumped?

200 mph = 3.33 miles per minute.

I can tell you for reference purposes, if you trace the vector from the beginning to where it crosses the 205 (which BTW was not there in 71), it's roughly 30 miles of flight, or 9 minutes.

Does someone know where to pull up the winds, especially aviation forcast and reported upper winds, for the date and general time of the jump?

[Eliakim 0]

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If this is hounding the FBI when I am running out of time then "Forgive Me". Not one agent really checked Duane out.

Well, after getting almost all the way through these many comments, I'm glad to see you're still "at it" through all the "grief" that several people have given you in the past. I've seen a few other stories, in past years, about what you've been saying here, but this particular thread has been quite enlightening.

Without trying to do any thread "hijacking" here (LOL!), let me reference the TWA Flight 800 "shoot-down" (outside of NY City), where it is really apparent how the FBI "picks and chooses" its theory and its story for how something happens, and then interviews only those witnesses who support that theory (and ignore the overwhelming evidence to the contrary).

The following link shows a full page ad taken out by witnesses to the TWA Flight 800 shoot-down, that the FBI refuses to "hear" or "report" about, because it goes against what they've been politically told to report.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a1f18de6090.htm

Look at that full page ad and think about what would make that many people object to what the FBI was doing -- that is -- totally ignoring legitimate witnesses and overwhelming eyewitness testimony.

It's obviously the same thing here, too...

Also, look at the following for how way off base the FBI can be, when it goes against what they figure is either politically expedient or that which covers their rear-ends.

How the FBI misled the public...
http://www.cashill.com/twa800/10th_anny_7of10.htm

Full accounting of how the FBI lied and lied to the public...
http://www.cashill.com/twa800/

BUT, like I said -- I am not trying to hijack this thread but rather, giving a very real context in a real life and serious situation, where the FBI is not to be trusted with the truth in any situation. They are only to be believed as far as you can pick up the agency and throw them.

So, Jo..., "Is it any wonder that you cannot get a fair hearing and investigation into what you have presented?" No, not at all.

You're barking up the wrong tree if you expect the FBI to produce anything of value, any more than ordinary citizens can, on their own. No one should ever expect anything more from the FBI than a "politicized agency" with their own agenda and no desire for the truth, except where it may benefit themselves. Even crooks and thieves tell the truth from time to time. The FBI is in good company with some of the same people they seek.

However, I did not just sign up, right now, only to say this to you. Anyone who has ever seen how the FBI has handled several different types of high-profile situations in the past, already knows that it's never to be depended up for "truth". It produces the real truth only where it benefits the agency and, the "manufactured truth" where it benefits themselves, too. So, that's was not the motivation for me getting on here, at this moment.

I just wanted to say there was one thing that stuck with me and that I wanted to comment on, from way back then, in Oregon. I was in Lake Oswego that night, working (in a grocery store). I remember the night (just before Thanksgiving) and what a "story" that was, when it hit the news. I mean, it captivated everyone at work that evening and we followed it as much as we could at work.

It was one of those events that "stuck with me" over the years, and I can place myself right back at that night, at work, remembering the events.

And, this is what caused me to get on here right now. You commented about the weather, perhaps not being as bad as some say it was. Let me tell you, from where I was in Lake Oswego (which is well south of the supposed jump spot; about 30-35 miles or so), the weather was "wicked bad" that night. Now, let me tell you, that in Oregon and Washington, we're used to cold and blustery and rainy nights, but this night was especially so -- even for Pacific Northwest standards. I mean..., I thought (even being used to this kind of weather) that it was especially bad. And for an Oregonian to say that, you know it had to be bad, because "normal" cold and blustery and rainy does not bother Oregonians. This night was especially bad.

And so, that's "saying something" for the Pacific Northwest and what the residents there know of that kind of weather. So, let me assure you -- it was a very bad night to be out in the weather.

BUT, that doesn't mean that I disbelieve that ole "D.B." could have done it. No, I think he did (whomever he is). And, from what you're saying -- at the very least -- your late husband thought he was the "man". I believe you there. Whether he would have misled you in that belief or not, is another story, but it appears that he has given you that very clear idea, at the very least.

I wouldn't depend upon the DNA evidence. That's very shaky. The minute I heard about that "so-called" evidence, I immediately could see holes big enough to drive a Mack truck through. I mean on what basis does the FBI maintain that they even have the DNA of ole D.B.?? Sorry, that just doesn't hold water for me.

Now, I'm not sure how soon the information got out that all the serial numbers were recorded. I just can't remember that, myself. However, it's not inconceivable that (if your late husband was D.B.) that he might have floated a "test" by burying (or placing) some bills where they could be found, in order to see what came of the discovery, and to learn what the authorities could "know" about it, once that "test batch" was put out there (for someone to find).

If nothing came of it and it remained a mystery (after being found), then perhaps your late husband may then have decided to get the rest of it. However, once he saw what happened with that discovery, he realized that the money was "worthless" to him (at least if he wanted to keep out of jail).

Well, anyway, that's about all I have to say about it. Keep up the good work and keep investigating. And don't count on the FBI to help you. You're not going to get any good help from that agency -- except by accident. This is something that people are going to have to do on their own. It's good that you came to this spot to get some help and advice. It's just too bad that several people decided to be so snotty and mean about things. I don't know what's wrong with some people. Some people obviously have some bad mojo in their upbringing and/or have some axes to grind that they decide to take out on anyone they can.

I'll try to get through to the end of this thread tonight, if I'm able...

[awsee1 0]

The DNA from the tie is indeed suspect to say the least. I wonder about the chain of custody of that tie over the years and we're going to quote/unquote "eliminate" suspects based on this??. Thirty Six years is enough to petrify soup to say the least.

Speaking of "chain of custody" this is the same chain that cannot locate the cigarette butts that could have irrefutable DNA. We're told that "techs are looking for it". WTF...??

Question for agent Carr. Does the FBI REALLY want to solve this case?? Honestly, I have serious doubts not that it wasn't already obvious.

Bren

[skyjack71 0]

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this particular thread has been quite enlightening.

Yes, you are right Eliakim - the skyjumpers on this thread have indeed been very helpful and some of the statements below that you made are what is needed - someone who was there on that night. I would also like for them to talk about the areas I tried to describe in the two WA Trek posts above.
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Let me tell you, from where I was in Lake Oswego (which is well south of the supposed jump spot; about 30-35 miles or so), the weather was "wicked bad" that night. So, let me assure you -- it was a very bad night to be out in the weather.

I am sure it was very cold and wet - but once he got on the ground he went into survival mode. Early the next morning in the search area children were fishing and playing under a tarp - so he only had to get thru the night. He was able to avoid the search teams - because of a miscalulation of the drop zone.

A man was seen at daybreak walking down a road - the individual did not know about the jump until later on in the day. When he told his wife about it they called the FBI, but it was dismissed because it was not in the immediate search area..

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I mean on what basis does the FBI maintain that they even have the DNA of ole D.B. It's good that you came to this spot to get some help and advice.

That statement really sums it up about the DNA.
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Thank You, I chose only to reply to the three statements I copied from your informative post rather than make this a political agenda.

Your feed back is what we need - I just finished posting 2 very long post about the sentimental journey that Duane did in 1979. I have retraced our steps as well as I can...at a certain point I am lost, because I am not in Wa.

Skyjumper, forestry workers, railworkers and any local who might know exactly where some of these places are...especially the fire tower that was not there in 1979 but in 1971 it did exist. The information I gave was not good, but I had no way to determine exactly where I was. He deliberately tried to turn me around by doubling back one time and the last time he succeeded.

All I had was a Rand McNally book - with WA on one page. Only my memory to guide me - now 25 yrs later - most would not be able to have the recall that I do -. just don't ask me what I ate for dinner tonight.

[awsee1 0]

What I'd like to know from Larry Carr, is what the FBI is prepared to do to solve this case? ??? Are we simply going to use suspect degraded DNA to quote/unquote "eliminate" certain suspects or are we going to proceed with the investigation?

This case wasn't that hard to solve, even 35 years later and what is troubling is that there doesn't seem to be a genuine effort by the FBI to get this done. Is the FBI willing to come clean and admit past mistakes?

It's got me and my neighbor and even 60 minutes wondering what is going on. The one thing about 60 is that they're pretty damn good at follow-ups!

Bren

[BGill 0]

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For those of you interested...

If you look at the "hot zone" aerial map that I created, you will see the yellow line begin right west of Merwin Dam.

According to the FBI map showing known locations of flight 305, the craft begins at the top of this line precisely at 2010... or 8:10 pm.

We've been told the pressure bump occured at roughly 8:11.

Let's give a range for fudge factor... suppose a minute early and a mintue late, thus the jump occured between 8:10 & 8:12. Traveling 200mph on this vector, how far south could have Cooper jumped?

200 mph = 3.33 miles per minute.

I can tell you for reference purposes, if you trace the vector from the beginning to where it crosses the 205 (which BTW was not there in 71), it's roughly 30 miles of flight, or 9 minutes.

Does someone know where to pull up the winds, especially aviation forcast and reported upper winds, for the date and general time of the jump?

Do we know if the speed of the aircraft, reported as 173 knots (200mph), is airspeed or groundspeed? I have not been paying too much attention to details, so sorry if I have anything wrong, but the weather was bad that night, so if the aircraft was travelling into the wind and the 173kts was airspeed, the actual distance covered by the aircraft in the calculations above could be much smaller. On the other hand, if they were travelling with the wind, this distance could be a much greater distance (again assuming 173 is airspeed).

Also, I don't know much about aviation. Just skydiving.

[SkydiveJack 1]

As a pilot, I am sure that the crew reported their airspeed, not ground speed. I am looking to find the winds from the ground to 10,000 ft. that night in order to get an idea of the drift under canopy, assuming it was opened. Of course the distance of the drift (i.e. speed and direction) of the parachute over the ground will depend on the altitude that he opened.

[RPC1117 0]

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This case wasn't that hard to solve, even 35 years later.......

I'm curious to know why you think this case is solved?

It doesn't seem that there is a "smoking gun" at all in any of this....only a bunch of speculation and theories, that at best, very loosely tie anyone of the major "suspects" presented. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but has one single piece of HARD evidence been shown by anyone?

I just think that there is so much missing from all of this to be able to say this case is solved.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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Please correct me if I'm wrong, but has one single piece of HARD evidence been shown by anyone?

As far as I can tell, you're spot on. From my standpoint, the reason to continue to theorize and hunt for information on suspects is simply because we can hope to one day find a piece of hard evidence... I'm holding to that hope that somewhere there's something that will tie a suspect to the crime.

[Orange1 0]

Oh come on.. because it's on the internet it's true? just like a plane never crashed into the pentagon on 9/11 and the moon landing was faked? yup. strangely there are other internet sites debunking all these theories. so we can go round in circles positing URLs that don't prove a damn thing except that people can be very selective with the evidence they want to "prove" something.

if the fbi didn't want the case solved, why go to all the trouble of re-publicizing it, putting more info out, having an agent on this site, etc? (if you're gonna tell me that that is all an effort to hide that they don't want it found out, you're just resorting to the last resort of a conspiracy theorist...) there are at least 2 people on this site alone who are convinced that they know who Cooper was (2 different people), Lyle Christiansen luckily hasn't found this site (or has refrained from posting) cos that would make a third.. and still no-one has come up with anything but, from what i can see, selectively used circumstantial evidence.

and btw once you have gone back and re-read the whole thread you may want to rethink about your comments on some of the other posters on the site. assuming you are, of course, the objective outsider you paint yourself as.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.