D B Cooper Unsolved Skyjacking

[skyjack71 0]

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One of those places was this spot on the river... a person with her told her that there used to small cabins or "shacks" as you say. Now there are homes. My understanding of this particular location is that it's somewhere between the I-5 and I-205 freeways.
Skyjack71, if I'm incorrect on any of the above, please correct it.

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I am here and NO that is not right. We were way East of I-5. Parallel with the Columbia. East of the Vancouver bridge - almost across from the Airport - remember he told me that if were not for the trees that I could see the Tower. The riverlady told me there used to be a cabin there.

Duane had told me in later yrs that the only way to get away with a crime is to go right back at them.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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- Ckret, you said you checked the ticket for prints - were you able to match all the prints found on there against check-in clerks, flight attendants etc or were there any prints that were "left over" and could be Cooper's? did any match the partial found on the tie pin?

Ckret why don't you explain that it was the boarding pass and not a piece of paper normally handled by the passenger as it is sandwiched between carbon and paper.??????[/b]

[skyjack71 0]

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bren,

"The money (from it's condition when found) had to have been sheltered from the elements. Because the money could not have been there before 1974 it rules out that Cooper landed near by, buried some cash and never came back. Because of its condition when found we know the earliest it could have been there in an unprotected state is late 78. There would be no logical reason for someone to come back and plant the money there 8 years after. It would not have cooled the investigation or thrown it off of a subject. No matter where the money is found the subject list would have stayed the same. Plus, at this point who ever Cooper is, he got away with it. The investigation was dying, why would someone fan the flames and $5,800 was a large sum in the late 70's and 80's, if you got away with it, you wouldn't give it up for no apparent reason."

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That money got there because a fool threw it away because was upset that it was worthless - he thought it would just sink and never be found. He wasn't thinking - just walking away from the past.

Then a few months later someone finds it. Duane knew the money was worthless and he had not seen the paper - i am the one who went out to get the paper - he was getting out of the shower and I glanced at the front page - then fixed breakfast - the paper disappeared - I didn't get to read the rest of the article - WONDER WHY?

Shortly after that Duane announce that his territory was being given to someone else - but I found out later he resigned (after his death) when I found a copy of his resignation giving me and my daughter as the reason to go back South.

He left within a week or two of the program about the money (which he did not allow me to see) - remember that he conveniently made sure we went out that night (a wk day night) - WHY? He didn't know what was in the program - but he knew the heat was on and he had to get out of the West and back to the South were no one was looking for Cooper.

He takes a dead-end job that didn't pay well with no leads in AL. Then we head back to GA. and he get the opportunity to go back to the Company and work out of VA. He shows me the place McCoy was killed at - he expresses regrets that the copy cat got killed - he refuses to take a promotion - saying he has to keep a low-profile. I ask why. No answer. He takes the promotion but immediately grows a Mustache and very full head of long hair.

In his frenzy and anger he had ignited the search and attention to Cooper once again - that is why he did all of the other things. Plus he was terrified that I would put 2 and 2 together.

He leave Co and my daughter only had about 3 months before graduation - he comes back for graduation and leaves again - meaning that my daughter and I had to handle the move. Fast in and fast out...we joined him sometime in June.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[awsee1 0]

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We're getting ahead of ourselves. Before we discuss how money got to where it was found, can we first go back and really make sure we hammered out the details of the landing zone?

CrackingPLF,

Can you summarize just where you're at on this for those of us who don't understand WRT paradigms and possibly the original theory? What I mean is WRT the recorder and flight path, was the 35 year assumption on this incorrect or are we verifying that it was????

Thanks

Bren

[skyjack71 0]

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Ckret,

I can tell now from what I've done so far that it appears possible for Cooper to land in the tributary zone if he jumped later than he did, but my instinct would tell me that he'd land in the area that feeds LaCamas, and this area has become extremely developed... with houses upon houses, but I can't say for sure without more information.

????????????????????????????????????????????_______________________________________________
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That is the area that I have repeatedly told about - when his thought he had missed his turn. The river turned out to be a Lake so I found out in 2000.

But up from the lake is the Hill with the Fence and the area he pointed to and told me that before the undergrowth you could walk for miles. Then from that point he doubles back and retracts and I have never figured out exactly where we went - I now know we went North, but indirectly.

There were two intersecting roads but we are still in a very wooded place - we were on our way to 500( I have been told that this was not 500 back then but it led into it), but he turnes some place on me - this is when we went to this area that he told me there used to be a tower there and about the rails - that were in the direction he was pointing.

What makes me think he rode one of those little cars for checking the rails is that somewere in all of this he told me what fun it was to use one of them. He could have landed not far from that point. From that clearing he tells me about the rail lines - that the lines (power and gas) crossed the rails. As we got back to the road that would take us to Seattle he mentions that over there pointing South from what is now 500 that there was a small airport and a signal tower - He definitely said Signal tower on that - one of the few towers he gave a name to other than fire or just tower.

[skyjack71 0]

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the money is the area of the case that has been least investigated and should be the focus because it may lead to bones, which lead to DNA, which lead to race and ethnic profile, which leads to familial confirmation and resolution (wouldn't that be something).

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Ckret - you are wasting your time, there is NO way that you are going to find bones anywhere near Tena's Bar. Cooper survived and He did not land there. For Cooper to have landed in that area the flight thing would have to be WAY out there.
What Happen to Hoffa?????????????

The money got there either because of the Flood (maybe resulting in Duane's Statement in the hospital about putting money in a bucket and he couldn't find the bucket or he found one of his buckets and the money was worthless - one of the hiding places was on the Columbia at the cabin across from the airport.

Since he had something to do in Seattle and at The Dallas - that would be three opportunities and three hiding places. Different things could have been hidden in different places. Cooper survived and if you would spend your time checking more into Duane's activiities - you will find your answer OR is this just your way fo drowning the case so NO ONE every KNOWS about What Really Happen to Cooper.

You DO NOT answer my questions in private or on the forum or on the phone - this tells me exactly where I stand...I should never have told you about the tie. Now that information will just POOF!

You seem to want to obscure anything that has to do with anything that might convey conspiracy - especially in an election yr - how appropriate. I haven't wanted to go there , but the actions of the FBI would lead one to believe exactly that - there was no great conspiracy just Duane's respect for The Great American Way. Yet, the FBI spends money to get a statement sworn by a Judge inrespect to the Cooper Case that shouts Conspiracy and nothing else and I am told to take my information to the Media. Strange that you haven't asked the Clerk and the witness for sworn statements about what they saw that night in 1971 and they have offered them up to you on a silver platter.
Who is Denny Nichols??????????????????

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

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What I mean is WRT the recorder and flight path, was the 35 year assumption on this incorrect or are we verifying that it was????

I first sought out to isolate the area that could possibly contribute to the Columbia in an appropriate way (so that the money would have flowed down river). This does presuppose the money was deposited via the Columbia, but that's okay since we're testing a hypothesis as well. Once we can isolate the tributaries, then we can test a hypothesis, which was, knowing the facts regarding flight path, winds, type of parachute, altitude, and the time of the jump, is it possible for Cooper to land near a tributary?

So far it appears the answer is a definite no. We're going to look at some better maps, etc and double check.

If the answer turns out to be no, then we can absolutely say the money didn't seperate from Cooper at the jump, and he didn't drown or die upon impact. BUT, to say these things we must know we're dealing with reliable facts... otherwise the conclusion isn't worth beans.

[skyjack71 0]

Ckret -
You DO NOT answer my questions in private or on the forum or on the phone - this tells me exactly where I stand...I should never have told you about the tie. Now that information will just POOF!

The FBI getting a sworn Statement for a certain individual screams conspiracy. I haven't wanted to go there , but the actions of the FBI would lead one to believe exactly that - there was no great conspiracy just Duane's respect for The Great American Way. Yet, I am told to take my information to the Media. Strange that you haven't asked the Clerk and the witness for sworn statements about what they saw that night in 1971 and they have offered them up to you on a silver platter
.
Who is Denny Nichols??????????????????

[awsee1 0]

Ok. I found it hard to believe that the flight recorder wouldn't have been accurate. No GPS back then, but the WAAS beacons that existed still correct GPS signals for accuracy from about 100 meters to about 3, even today.
Not sure they were that accurate back then with all the upgrades, but we're certainly not dealing with mash.

CKRET's second post clarified the matter wrt the flight path, I just wasn't sure I was on the right page.

AGAIN, I think we need to take this one step at a time, only because I want this case solved.

Bren

[SkydiveJack 1]

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Ok. I found it hard to believe that the flight recorder wouldn't have been accurate. No GPS back then, but the WAAS beacons that existed still correct GPS signals for accuracy from about 100 meters to about 3, even today.
Not sure they were that accurate back then with all the upgrades, but we're certainly not dealing with mash.

Bren

Flight Data Recorders back then did not record navigation data. They only recorded somewhere between 6 to 9 parameters. Things like altitude, airspeed, thrust, maybe flap and gear position. I don't remember all of them but I do know that cabin pressure was not a parameter. Therefore there is no navigation/flight path recorded from the actual airplane. (BTW, there would be no record of the pressure bump and it's time other than the pilots.) Back in 1971 the recorders used a big spool of tape and it had to be replaced when it was full. The cockpit voice recorder is a separate system that recorded only a 30 minute loop then re-recorded over itself. So there would be no record of the pilots conversation except the last 30 minutes into Reno.

You are correct that there was no GPS back in that day, then mention "the WAAS beacons that existed". I'm not sure what you mean by this but the WAAS system I am familiar with is only just starting to be put in place. The beacons that existed back then (VOR's) worked well but were nowhere near as accurate as GPS is today.

The only record of the flight path would be from ground based radar. I hope the FBI saved the tape records of this, not just the diagrams that were drawn up at the time!

[awsee1 0]

S-D Jack,

Thanks for the reply. I knew that what I posted was not necessarily accurate. I knew enough to be Uhhh...."DANGEROUS" LOL. If we'd have asked for what you posted, we may not have "received", or we may not have known what to ask for.

Again, thanks.

Bren

[peckerhead 0]

Hey Jo....

When you started this thread it seemed like you were trying to put Duane in a harness. It was almost like you were looking for evidence to back up a theory.

But now this thread has morphed into you trying to convince us (the skydiving community) that Duane was DB Cooper no matter what.

Even if the evidence might prove otherwise you will not let it go unless you are right.

Have you even considered the possibility that you are wrong?

Maybe Duane just wanted to be DB Cooper......

[happythoughts 0]

If I find the money, I'm going to show up at some Washington DZs and spend it on jump tickets, just to toss a little excitement into things.

[stratostar 5]

Look out mouse turd ahead.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[awsee1 0]

The "Focus" is what's important here. I thought we were making progress until we strayed off course. One step at a time.

Bren

[happythoughts 0]

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The "Focus" is what's important here. I thought we were making progress until we strayed off course. One step at a time.

Bren

Sorry, I don't participate in "we". You have absolutely mistaken me for someone else. The internet exists for my amusement.

If that was too distracting, consider that this thread is about something 35 years ago and over 1000 posts long. Take a moment and re-read them and just give us the Cliff Notes.

[awsee1 0]

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The "Focus" is what's important here. I thought we were making progress until we strayed off course. One step at a time.

Bren

Sorry, I don't participate in "we". You have absolutely mistaken me for someone else. The internet exists for my amusement.

If that was too distracting, consider that this thread is about something 35 years ago and over 1000 posts long. Take a moment and re-read them and just give us the Cliff Notes.

I'm more than positive you're capable of reading this thread yourself. Your icon says "interior designer" to me.

My guess is that you're in the Christiansen camp.

You're certainly entitled to your bias and your opinion.
...so make your case please.

Bren

[happythoughts 0]

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I'm more than positive you're capable of reading this thread yourself. Your icon says "interior designer" to me.

My guess is that you're in the Christiansen camp.

You're certainly entitled to your bias and your opinion.
Tongue...so make your case please.

One of those Pacific Northwest storms tumbled a concrete truck down the Rogue River in Oregon for half a mile. The barrel still sits there.

A hundred people fit that profile.

Cooper died that night.
A storm washed some of the cash around.

[377 22]

Post: "Ok. I found it hard to believe that the flight recorder wouldn't have been accurate. No GPS back then, but the WAAS beacons that existed still correct GPS signals for accuracy from about 100 meters to about 3, even today.
Not sure they were that accurate back then with all the upgrades, but we're certainly not dealing with mash."

I think you are confusing DGPS beacons (operated by the USCG) with WAAS, which broadcasts local GPS corrections from satellites . DGPS uses ground based LF beacon transmitters and modulates them with a data stream that provides local GPS corrections to suitably equipped receivers which decode the data and correct the indicated GPS position. No USCG, USAF or FAA operated LF beacons were transmitting nav data back when Cooper jumped. They just transmitted Morse Code IDs and (sometimes) MCW tones, nothing more. They were sometimes used to establish position through ADF fixes.

To the best of my knowledge nothing in a 727 back then recorded position data. The ground radar recording of the flight track is the best info we have and should be reasonably accurate.

Why don't we hear much about the third cockpit crew member, the flight engineer? His panel had the only cabin pressure altimeter in the cockpit. What about the cockpit voice recorder? The mic in the cockpit might have recorded the pressure bump felt by the crew. The bump would be an acoustic event. Most CVRs had a time track on them. You might not hear the bump on replay, but it might be seen on a scope hooked up to the audio output. Even if the bump part of the tape was overwritten or erased there might be an artifact that survived and could be found with modern test gear.

The skeptic in me says "no way" on the incredibly lucky and highly unlikely money find, but I actually think it happened as reported. There are huge clues in the money (condition, location, dredge discharge strata dating, etc) but for the life of me I cannot put it all together to where it points to a particular person.

I do think all airtight alibis need to be reexamined and questioned. I have seen suspects dodge prosecution with false but apparently airtight alibis. A strong suspect and a perfect alibi are a combo that screams "take a second look" to me.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[JohnRich 4]

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The flight path depicted on the map... finding the money is the key to unlock the door to the answer... the money is the area of the case that has been least investigated and should be the focus because it may lead to bones, which lead to DNA, which lead to race and ethnic profile, which leads to familial confirmation and resolution (wouldn't that be something).

I'm excited about the new possibilities of discovery here. Unfortunately, I live 1,000 miles away from the site. What you need is a "D.B. Cooper Club" of experienced hikers that is willing to spend their weekends tromping through the woods conducting methodical searches of the area. Someone would be in charge of the map, with the most likely areas laid out, and groups sent into those areas. Check trees for signs of rotted parachute and cord, and the ground for anything out of the ordinary. Each area to be checked off as the search party returns, and new ones searched on subsequent weekends. Just like a search for a missing hiker. Start when the snow is all melted this spring. If I wasn't so darned far away, I'd put some time into it myself.

[JohnRich 4]

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if cooper buried the money on the beach upon landing that is where it would have stayed undisturbed. In 1974 almost two feet of sand and clay were buried there. I am sure, if Cooper buried the money he would have put the bag at least a foot down most likely more. The geologist that worked the site stated that it would be of a certain impossibility that on its own the money could have broke through the clay deposits from the dredging and the dig showed no signs of disturbance in the clay layer.

Hmmm. I'm also a canoeist, and there is a saying amongst rivermen that "you never paddle the same river twice". What this means is that rivers are constantly changing. Earth is washed away from some places, and redeposited elsewhere. Sandbars come and go. New rocks are deposited and others washed away. All this from normal water flow, as well as floods and gully-washers.

The U.S. Geological Survey has aerial photos of the entire U.S. And those photos have been re-taken at different times, usually 10 or more years apart. Perhaps those aerial photos of that location could be examined over time to see if the sand bar was stable throughout the time period between the hijacking and the money discovery.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Yes, the waterline of the Columbia, for example, has changed a lot since the 70s.

Because streams tend to be driven by topography, they aren't going to change quite as dramatically as the bigger bodies of water.

I will also say that the general location of tributaries isn't really going to change all that much because they're based on topography as well. I have some old maps from 74 that demonstrate this.

I will say, it wasn't easy to figure out where the money was found using only maps... I had to use several landmarks, most of which are in Oregon on the other side of the river... the changes to Caterpillar island really threw me off initially!

[Orange1 0]

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- Ckret, you said you checked the ticket for prints - were you able to match all the prints found on there against check-in clerks, flight attendants etc or were there any prints that were "left over" and could be Cooper's? did any match the partial found on the tie pin?

Ckret why don't you explain that it was the boarding pass and not a piece of paper normally handled by the passenger as it is sandwiched between carbon and paper

Jo, if you had read the rest of my post rather than selectively choosing something, you will see that I knew exactly what it is. And I noted that I (and i am sure not just me either) had often handled these BEFORE they were torn out and put in the sleeve to act as boarding pass. Come to think of it there is an easy possibility that prints get on it while it is in the boarding card sleeve as well. To simply dismiss the possibility that any prints of use might be on it seems a bit strange. Wouldn't the better procedure to be to check to see?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

One other thing... I think when the time comes to for us to really look into the location of the money, how it was found, etc... we may want to look at pictures from 79 if possible.

Just think about how far down that 74 strata was in 79. Now picture 30 years AFTER that! Comparing how it is today to how it was then isn't going to be as perfect as we'd like.

Orange1, I asked Ckret about whether they pulled prints off of it or if it was just "processed" for prints, and I think he may have missed the question since there wasn't much mention of it yesterday when he was on here. There's been too many posts the past week (maybe 7 pages of posts)... I'm not complaining about it, I'm saying it would be easy for someone to miss a sentence or two in all of that.

[Orange1 0]

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Orange1, I asked Ckret about whether they pulled prints off of it or if it was just "processed" for prints, and I think he may have missed the question since there wasn't much mention of it yesterday when he was on here. There's been too many posts the past week (maybe 7 pages of posts)... I'm not complaining about it, I'm saying it would be easy for someone to miss a sentence or two in all of that.

no probs, i reminded him yesterday & he messaged me - he assumed elimination prints were done but is checking - also said there were no prints on the tie pin - which I guess also kind of undermines any 'theory' about 'planting' prints using it.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.