quade 4 #451 September 9, 2007 Quote Hey Moderators......WAKE UP ! ! ! ! Sorry. Can't be on 24/7/365quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #452 September 9, 2007 Ckret - please excuse the manners of certain individuals - the rest of us really want to hear more. You are logical and your suspect is obviously not the same as mine. I personally would like to know more about your suspect (you can private email me and it will stay confidential). Can you tell us more about the following statement. Also, I noted that Flybounce called you Bob, but you do not give any such information in your profile. Below is the copy and paste : I will say this fits the profile of another individual whose name I refuse to disclose to anyone. You might say the guy was related to me, but it was not Duane. More About This Please "DB Cooper most likely served in the military and upon leaving used his technical training as a contractor in the airline industry, in and around Seattle. He rose to a mid-level management position but when he could rise no further or his project never got off the ground, he quit or was fired, "because no one understood him or were just to stupid to get it." Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #453 September 9, 2007 >>The physical description I provided is a reported fact.I shudder to think of all the poor saps who took their seat in the electric chair on the basis of an eye witness account. I learned long ago two people can see the same thing and disagree on what they saw. Especially in aviation. Look at any FAA accident report that includes eye ball witness statements and it's all over the place. "He flipped over to the right." "He flipped over to the left." "The engine was racing." "The engine was sputtering." He hit the ground and caught fire" "He was on fire before he hit the ground." "He was steering away from the school." "He never knew the school was there . . . " I was on a B.A.S.E. jump, at a building that was under construction, and just walking back into the building after landing. We were packing on the roof and making multiple jumps. A good friend of mine was getting ready to launch and I stopped to watch. He had a 180 to the right and slammed into the building hard and got hung up between floors. Thankfully he was stunned but okay when we reached him. I said, "Man, that canopy turned right so fast there was nothing you could do." And he said, "What are you talking about? The canopy turned to the left!" Him and I are still arguing that one . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #454 September 9, 2007 That is a great idea, there is no greater back story than the Cooper case and it is just ripe for a re-introduction into pop culture. It would go like this: The first half of the first show would be a documentary catching everyone up to speed, after all, mention the name DB Cooper to those outside skydiving and they say, "who?" The second half would be dedicated to the theories and those behind them. Then you end the show with four groups of three, three representing the McCoy's, three the Mayfield's, three Weber's and three for the Splatter's. Each group would make a tandem night jump into the area thought close to where Cooper made his jump, each carrying a 25 pound sack of everything they'll need for the next month. Upon landing they will navigate to a camp in the woods around Coopers landing area. The first show will end upon the landing, the second pick up on the hike to the camp. The rest of the shows will be filled with lively debate and different competitions, such as the "escape" played out with "FBI agents" hunting the different groups with paint guns. In the end "America decides" with a call in vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #455 September 9, 2007 There is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case. Mucklow spent almost five hours with Cooper, I think she could have got the base physical indentifiers correct, especially when the others reported almost the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grimmie 186 #456 September 9, 2007 No Ckret...the show I am selling is everyone on this thread locked in a room arguing, name calling and taunting each other..like on this THREAD... Maybe we could have names for it like... "DB and the Hag"...or "Are you smarter than a Flybounce?"...or "True Stories of the Literate FBI"...or "Hagnet" And you can be the tandem master on your show 'cuz I ain't takin' no TV contestant outta the plane on a rainy night over the woods!!!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #457 September 9, 2007 >>Not the same in the Cooper case.Not a bad counter point, but still no cigar . . . Mucklow wasn't sitting on her back porch for five hours. She spent those five hours under the control of someone who was threatening to blow her out of the sky? In that state of mind some people can't even come up with their own names . . . NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwilson 0 #458 September 9, 2007 QuoteThere is the key difference, "it happened so fast" Not the same in the Cooper case. Mucklow spent almost five hours with Cooper, I think she could have got the base physical indentifiers correct, especially when the others reported almost the same. And so did Florence, who said that Duane Weber is not Cooper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwilson 0 #459 September 9, 2007 Quote >>Not the same in the Cooper case.Not a bad counter point, but still no cigar . . . Mucklow wasn't sitting on her back porch for five hours. She spent those five hours under the control of someone who was threatening to blow her out of the sky? In that state of mind some people can't even come up with their own names . . . NickD BASE 194 Good call Nick. To think that Tina was staring at Cooper, trying to figure out his height, and weight, is ridiculous. They were all trying to save their skins. Just what went on in the back of the plane when the plane left Seattle with Tina and Cooper in the back. How about the old, hey, forget what I look like, or I'll come looking for you, trick? Tina was so impressed with Cooper, that she left the airliner not long after the Cooper case, and joined a convent. And, top of it, refused to help the fBI. so, obviously, her main objective, has never been to catch Cooper. And we're suppose to hang our hats on her physical desription of Cooper. I'll pass. Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #460 September 9, 2007 If your willing to accept that these individuals were not able to obtain basic physical identifiers for Cooper then he could have been of any race, any height and any weight. The description came from many who saw him, not just Schaffner and Mucklow. Several passengers sat near Cooper and noticed him because of his actions. They reported a physical description of Cooper as Schaffner and Mucklow. As did the ticket agent in Portland. Under the "trust no I-witness" philosophy, there is no base of fact to go from, maybe he was actually a she? Where do you stop? there has to be a baseline of fact, you simply cannot conduct an effective investigation if every human being is a suspect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #461 September 9, 2007 Grimmie, you've read the thread, its totally do'able. Where's your spirit of adventure. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwilson 0 #462 September 9, 2007 QuoteIf your willing to accept that these individuals were not able to obtain basic physical identifiers for Cooper then he could have been of any race, any height and any weight. The description came from many who saw him, not just Schaffner and Mucklow. Several passengers sat near Cooper and noticed him because of his actions. They reported a physical description of Cooper as Schaffner and Mucklow. As did the ticket agent in Portland. Under the "trust no I-witness" philosophy, there is no base of fact to go from, maybe he was actually a she? Where do you stop? there has to be a baseline of fact, you simply cannot conduct an effective investigation if every human being is a suspect. Actually, I am going to disagree with you. First, the ticket agent had no reason to take any notice of Cooper. Dennis Lynse was tracked down 5 hours after he sold the ticket, and helped close to 70 passengers that day, and we are using his identification. actually, you helped me with your argument. Anybody who would have seen Cooper, while on the plane, would have only seen a man who was sitting, in the last row, wearing glasses. Nobody sat in the row with Cooper, and across the aisle, was Mitchell, who said Cooper was medium sized. Nobody sat in the rows ahead of Cooper. As a matter of fact, Mitchell was asked to moved to the front of the plane, as were the other passengers, as the plane was circling Seattle. So, nobody was even close to the guy when the plane landed in Seattle. People did take notice of Cooper as they left the plane, but, only mentioned he was smoking, and was wearing glasses. Nobody knew the jet was hijacked until the money was brought on board in Seattle. even then, not everbody got it. Still, Cooper was seated at the back of the plane. How do you get a hold of his height and weight? WAs he white, approximate age, maybe, that is it, IMO Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #463 September 9, 2007 Not using any one persons description as the end all but the totality of all the descriptions. Not one person described him much different than the others. Yes some put him in his 30's most put him in his mid 40's to 50's. Some did not see him standing, others did. He boarded with others, at one point he got up and went to the restroom. When they landed in Seattle he got up in the rear of the plane. He stood with Mucklow as she showed him how the airstairs were lowered. He was standing when he cut open the cute and wrapped the money. Tina watched him put on one of the chutes and on it goes. On Monday I will give you all a brief on how many people gave a description and what it was and how they are related to the case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #464 September 9, 2007 Quote On Monday I will give you all a brief on how many people gave a description and what it was and how they are related to the case. ------------------------------------------------------------ Ckret, I am looking forward to your post on Monday. Just ignore Wilson - he's doing the Bounce thing with the double space and creating distractions. Wish there was a way to put certain posters on ignore, but then everyone would probably ignore me.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #465 September 9, 2007 Quote No Ckret...the show I am selling is everyone on this thread locked in a room arguing, name calling and taunting each other..like on this THREAD... ------------------------------------------------- you are cracking me up. I have been alone since my husband died July 1st and I haven't laugh until tonight - BUT, I am far from being a Hag -- hehehe I might be a Witch or even Bewitching. Crazy! That's a good one. I have been called that - I lost two real estate clients after I went public in 2000 because they decided I had to be a nut case and guess what? ---one of them worked for the FBI. Another agent was assigned to finish the closing after I spent days with the man and his wife -- we had a contract on a house, but they did not want to me to do the closing, so I had to split my commission with another agent to close. You are a breath of fresh air. Just what the Doctor ordered.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Orange1 0 #466 September 9, 2007 Quote That is a great idea, there is no greater back story than the Cooper case and it is just ripe for a re-introduction into pop culture. It would go like this: The first half of the first show would be a documentary catching everyone up to speed, after all, mention the name DB Cooper to those outside skydiving and they say, "who?" The second half would be dedicated to the theories and those behind them. Then you end the show with four groups of three, three representing the McCoy's, three the Mayfield's, three Weber's and three for the Splatter's. Each group would make a tandem night jump into the area thought close to where Cooper made his jump, each carrying a 25 pound sack of everything they'll need for the next month. Upon landing they will navigate to a camp in the woods around Coopers landing area. The first show will end upon the landing, the second pick up on the hike to the camp. The rest of the shows will be filled with lively debate and different competitions, such as the "escape" played out with "FBI agents" hunting the different groups with paint guns. In the end "America decides" with a call in vote. and for the prize they get the $200K?Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bret.d.descopoi 0 #467 September 9, 2007 Wow, this thread is huge. I recently saw a show on Inside Edition that said Ted Mayfield is a possible for DB Cooper. There was recently a story in the local McMinnville paper which disputed this. I'm confused about a few things, however. Ckret, do you work in the Seattle office of the FBI as an agent? It sounds like you are going to get some of the information and share it with us Monday? That would mean you're actively working the case. The FBI doesn't even give access to a case unless an agent has been assigned, even if it is temporary. Can you tell us more? Or is it a Ckret. Clever name. I don't have access to the files. I just have Ralph's book. I'm guessing the case cards won't disagree with what Ralph has to say. God love Ralph, he's a pretty good square dancer, but he got stuck on things that fit a preconceived notion. The result is the only unsolved sky jacking in US history. If I were you, I would stick to the description from Florence. Tina probably won't help much, especially now. She became very reluctant to help in less than a month of the actual heist. Did you see the Unsolved Mysteries piece? Florence Schaffner (without muddling from an overly helpful and insistent ticket agent) did a sketch with an LA County sketch artist named Mahlon Coleman. As you probably well know, composites (descriptions done by committee) can be very deceiving. It is too bad that right off the bat Ralph himself did not interview both prime witnesses right after a sketch artist was done with both of them. Individual sketches from the prime suspects. What a concept. Yes, if I had my druthers I would only use a sketch from Schaffner and Muckow individually. It might be interesting to compare the two when they are done. See how close they came to each other. This would be very useful in establishing the reliability of one or the other witness. Even if one sat right next to him for five hours, which did not exactly happen.Beleive me, I know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bret.d.descopoi 0 #468 September 9, 2007 Are you claiming to be an agent, also? Forgive me. I have not read the whole thread. It is vast. Your cogency and command of the subject material are fairly impressive. Are you one of the two guys that think they have solved it?Beleive me, I know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bret.d.descopoi 0 #469 September 9, 2007 BTW I am not claiming to be anything.Beleive me, I know. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awsee1 0 #470 September 9, 2007 QuoteNot using any one persons description as the end all but the totality of all the descriptions. Not one person described him much different than the others. Yes some put him in his 30's most put him in his mid 40's to 50's. Some did not see him standing, others did. This is a mistake. There are really only 3 people who got a cognizant look at Cooper and 2 that I know of that are reliable. When asked, anyone wanting to help out would/might try to give a description when the fact is they weren't really paying attention. Case in point is Mitchell the student, who got a better look at Cooper than anyone but the 2-maybe 3-flight attendants, but didn't pay attention because he was paying more attention to Tina, and like the rest of the passengers didn't know the plane was being jacked. It's more logical that anyone who might have seen him but didn't pay attention would describe him has 5'10-6'0 medium build than anything else. Why not? It's about as generic and safe a description as there is, especially when you're not sure. Human nature is often to help out, and sometimes it's better to just say "I don't know" if that's the case. Quote He boarded with others, at one point he got up and went to the restroom. When they landed in Seattle he got up in the rear of the plane. He stood with Mucklow as she showed him how the airstairs were lowered. He was standing when he cut open the cute and wrapped the money. Tina watched him put on one of the chutes and on it goes. Tina never showed Cooper how to lower the aft stairs. Cooper had suggested he would need this information, but figured it out himself w/o Tina's help. Quote On Monday I will give you all a brief on how many people gave a description and what it was and how they are related to the case. I'll be interested to hear this. Brenda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #471 September 9, 2007 >>Or is it a Ckret. Clever name.LOL, good catch, and that shows how "observant" we are . . . Concerning the airstairs. Cooper asking about the operation of the airstairs sounds funny. I know they were disabled from opening in flight after Cooper's jump, but prior they were a form of emergency egress for pax on the ground. So the "switch" would have been obvious and placarded with instructions. I couldn't find a photo of the actual switch but the below is from a flight attendant's 727 training manual. >>Aft Airstairs (Ventral) H-1.93 (6ft.4in.) W-0.81m (2ft.8in.) Approximate force required to move door control handle from closed/locked position to open position: 10 kg. (22 lbs.). Door and Control Handle - 100 Series Control Handle has button on top of handle used in conjunction with handle to electrically raise/lower stair assembly. Emergency Use (100 series) - inside stairway. Remove emergency access covers; pull sharply on release handle (inward). Action will cause uplocks to be sheared and forcibly extend stairs extensive damage will be caused to system).NickD BASE 194 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwilson 0 #472 September 9, 2007 Good call Brenda So, Ckret, in all of your years, you have never seen an eyewitness be off on their estimate? Never? So, you would simply eliminate people, solely on height? FTR: Himmelsback didn't rule out anybody solely on height. why? Because Himmelsback was looking for somebody with a compact build. stocky. Himmelsback did eliminate people, based on their age, and other ridiculous reasons, and that is why the case is unsolved. Obviously, Himmelsback didnt' read all of the 302's, because he was looking for a man in his upper 40's. who's to say, the witness who said Cooper was in his 30's, wasn't correct, and the other's were off. Men are better at guessing the age, height, and weight of men, and vice versa for women. It's just a simple fact, for obvious reasons. Obviously, one of the flight attendants is not accurate. Either Florence or Tina is wrong. One of them says Cooper wasn't wearing his glasses all the time, and the other said his sunglasses never came off. So, the witnesses are far from unanimous regarding the description of Cooper. WE have some who say he was in his 30's, other's 40's. We have some who say he never took off his glasses, and one who said he did. Tina said he re-packed his chute, while most people agree that would be very unlikely. Himmelsback said it never happened. Some say Cooper's eyes were brown, other's say they were dark piercing, black, like someone from India. Mitchell said Cooper was medium build, other's say he was 6 foot tall. Mitchell said his hair was dyed or a wig, since it was shiny. Then, we have 5 different sketches of Cooper. And we are suppose to believe the witnesses were unanimous in what they saw? Sometimes I wonder, if Cooper was able to read the future, and decided to commit suicide, instead of what he saw down the pike. What do you think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
awsee1 0 #473 September 9, 2007 Quote Good call Brenda So, Ckret, in all of your years, you have never seen an eyewitness be off on their estimate? Never? So, you would simply eliminate people, solely on height? I'll answer that. No NEVER. If he was 5'8" you MUST eliminate! There were too many stellar witnesses. Let's face it it's not like this case has been UNSOLVED for like 36 years.......right? If CKret is definately an ex-FBI agent, and I'm hoping for national security he's not....we really have to up our standards. I know they don't make much, but we've just got to do better! I'm speaking for our tax dollars ...no offense...;). Brenda Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #474 September 9, 2007 Enjoy your 30 day IP ban as well. Do not think that you can get around a ban simply by creating a new account.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jackwilson 0 #475 September 10, 2007 QuoteQuote Ckret, I am looking forward to your post on Monday. Just ignore Wilson - he's doing the Bounce thing with the double space and creating distractions. Wish there was a way to put certain posters on ignore,[Reply] But, this is acceptable behavior? Just want to know the ground rules. Regardless, of how many people are banned, if wont' change the fact that the fBI closed the case on Duane, his DNA doesn't match, his prints don't match, he can't be placed in Oregon, he can't be placed in a harness, and Florence Schaffner said he isnt' Cooper. I guess, now, he is just one of 1,000 suspects, hoping to be the man. But, the real Cooper, doesn't want the press, or the jail time, or his assets taken away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Next Page 19 of 68 This topic is now closed to further replies. 2 2 Go To Topic Listing
