Guru312 0 #1 December 2, 2006 Greetings olde people... Because of the recent DB Cooper thread, I began to rummage around in my attic and filing cabinets looking for memories. I found a whole bunch. I found my original USPA Instructor Rating which was issued on March 21, 1971 and signed by Norm Heaton. I went through the ICC at Mike Schultz's Pelicanland in Ridgely, MD. Mike, Len Potts, Jim MacIntyre and some real old timers were in the class. If my memory serves me correctly, we were told that the ICC was the second in the country after one which was presented somewhere on the West Coast. Can anyone confirm the date of the first ICC and where it was? I'm thinking about writing an article and I'd like to get the dates and locations correct. Is it possible that the one I attended really was the first on the East Coast? I can't get over how much I look backward as I get older. Is that happening to you folks, too?Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #2 December 2, 2006 I began to rummage around in my attic... Quote Beats raking leaves I bet! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #3 December 2, 2006 QuoteI began to rummage around in my attic... Quote Beats raking leaves I bet! Well...If could remember where I put the the rake, I'd rake leaves.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #4 December 2, 2006 Either way, this: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm is by-god one of the funniest things I've ever seen in skydiving. I only wish I could have been there when it was first run. Especially with the media going ballistic. Unfortunately today most of the whuffo public wouldn't understand the reference and it would be lost on them. They would assume a 9/11 reference and become offended instead of seeing the now historical humor in it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #5 December 2, 2006 QuoteEither way, this: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm is by-god one of the funniest things I've ever seen in skydiving. I only wish I could have been there when it was first run. Especially with the media going ballistic. Unfortunately today most of the whuffo public wouldn't understand the reference and it would be lost on them. They would assume a 9/11 reference and become offended instead of seeing the now historical humor in it. Thanks! It's nice to have folks appreciate my humor. But imagine what grief I'd have if that got printed today.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #6 December 2, 2006 From Parachutist, August, 1970: "The first USPA Instructor Certification Course was held in Manchester, Connecticut on 3 and 4 April 1970. Thirty-five jumpers from ten states were certified after two days of intensive lectures, written and practical tests." --- Among the faculty members and graduates was me. Among other graduates, such unknowns as Dan Poynter and Ted Strong. HW (olde person) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #7 December 2, 2006 QuoteFrom Parachutist, August, 1970: "The first USPA Instructor Certification Course was held in Manchester, Connecticut on 3 and 4 April 1970. Thirty-five jumpers from ten states were certified after two days of intensive lectures, written and practical tests." --- Among the faculty members and graduates was me. Among other graduates, such unknowns as Dan Poynter and Ted Strong. HW (olde person) Dear Olde Howard... Thanks for this information. I couldn't ask for more reliable sources: you and Parachutist. And now with this information from you, I may have to adjust my memory of the wild night I had with Bridgette Bardot and some blonde named Marilyn. Getting olde is a drag.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #8 December 2, 2006 I may have to adjust my memory of the wild night I had with Bridgette Bardot and some blonde named Marilyn. Quote Which is why one should always keep those kind of skeletons in the closet, not the ATTIC! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybill 22 #9 December 3, 2006 Hi Up, someone quoted from scareachutist about the 1970 first ICC. Prior to that if you had a class C license you could "Jumpmaster" students and a D license holder could Instruct. Then things changed!! Still have my old original B license wings with the little dangly piece saying "Parachutist." Then when I got my C license they sent me a the dangly piece saying JUMPMASTER After things changed the C license got changed to Advanced!! Oh well. Now they are going to redo the wings and things!!!!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #10 December 3, 2006 There is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #11 December 3, 2006 QuoteThere is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Hmm, not the same "first ICC" I was referring to. I have the picture somewhere. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #12 December 3, 2006 I always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #13 December 3, 2006 QuoteI always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Well, no, not really. When I was at the Pioneers of Sport Parachuting reunion in Nevada in October (Parachutist story and pix coming in a month or so), Bill McCarthy, D-83, showed me his log book documenting that event. I scanned it, along with his picture of the participants. In it, he writes: "First Examiner Course Phoenix, Arizona, 2/62" and it's signed by, I guess, all participants. Perry Stevens was indeed among them, though Poynter was not. A partial list, arbitrarily limited to those with D <100. Lew Sanborn, D-1 Jacques-André Istel, D-2 (he also signed as Inst.#1) Danny Byard, D-11 Loy Brydon D-12 Lynn Pyland, D-14 Robert A. Spatola, D-24 Bill Jolly,D-26 William Elfers, D-28 Thomas Kirtley, D-29 Paul Poppenhager, D-47 Lee Guilfoyle, D-50 Perry Stevens, D-51 Hank Simbro, D-63 Philip L. Goetsch, D-65 Nate Pond, D-69 Coy McDonald, D-70 John Hollis, D-73 Joe Norman, D-77 Murial Simbro, D-78 Ray S. Cole Jr., D-82 Bill McCarthy, D-83 Ed Fitch, D-89 Among the other participants, Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell, C-345 Sometime later (don't have exact date at the moment) PCA implemented the Instuctor/Examiner rating. In 1969, USPA reworked the whole thing; until then, if you had a C license you were a Jumpmaster and if you had a D, you were an Instructor (whether or not you actually did that stuff.) In the period after that change, USPA issued Jumpmater ratings separate from the license structure, but did not issue Instructor ratings until the April, 1970 course. Please shut me up now; I'm blabbering again. HW Picture attached: Istel in front row center, hands crossed, Gen. Stilwell to his left, Sanborn second from left in first row. I leave it to you to identify the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #14 December 4, 2006 Quote I leave it to you to identify the others. The guy on the far left, front row is DB Cooper. Actually, this post clears up the issue. You are referencing PCA where I'm asking about USPA. I think the name changed in the earlier '60s, maybe 64? My Instructor Rating was issued by Norm Heaton in 1971 when USPA was the associations name and after the 'reorg' of the training and safety syllabus. Because of some weird office accounting, my Instructor Rating is dated March 21, 71 and my JM rating April 5, 71. I can't understand how I could have an I before having a JM but...there it is. Does anyone know when PCA became USPA? The only piece of memorabilia I haven't been able to find is my PCA patch.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #15 December 4, 2006 HI Howard, Let me try my luck: Front row, 3rd from right is Stillwell, next to Istel On the other side of Istel, front row, is Gunby 2nd row, 2nd from left is Perry Stevens 2nd row, 1st from right is Brydon Back row, 1st from right looks like Daryl Henry Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch That's about it for me; how did I do? Jerry PS) Hi Guru, USPA came into being in '68; as I recall. But do not bet any $$$ on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #16 December 4, 2006 You did pretty well. I have the advantage of a high-quality 8 x 10 print, you have the advantage of knowing more of them. 1. I have corrected my original post to include two other D<100 I had left out -- Kirtley and Goetsch 2. The full list from the logbook has 40 names; there are only 23 people in the picture. Among those not in the picture were the three women, Muriel Simbro, Carolyn Olson, and Nona Pond, as well as Nate Pond. 3. I would have thought Daryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. Ed Fitch with glasses at right end of back row. 4. Now that I have gotten in this deep, I suppose I'll just have to ask Bill McCarthy. No point in having an historical picture without proper IDs. (Or maybe Poppenhager will drop by with the answer.) 4. PCA -> USPA was in 1967. Doesn't affect my original statement that the April '70 thing was the first USPA I course. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #17 December 4, 2006 As a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #18 December 4, 2006 More: QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #19 December 4, 2006 Quote QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. o.k. Looks like the Daryl Henry I met in October. Quote QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? What you said is "Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch" Just clarifying. I'll get the rest of the names from Those Who Were There. Thanks for your help. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #20 December 4, 2006 QuoteAs a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit. Attached is Dan Poynter's picture of the 1970 "first" course. Jump suit already creeping in. Prizes awarded for IDs. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BCA 1 #21 December 4, 2006 Are you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #22 December 4, 2006 Howard, My photo is an original and is in reverse of yours (copy problem).The 1st instructor examiner course was held in Pheonix the weekend of Feb.21,22,23,1962 (Washingtons birthday) now called Presidents day.PCA sponsored and (paid for it).There were 23 participants and Nate Pond nor Murial Simbrio were involved. We all learned alot there and had a great time even thou the weather sucked the first day. I drew #21. Of the ones still with us,it's hard to even reconize ourselves much less the others today since it was 45 years ago!!!!! POP D47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #23 December 4, 2006 QuoteAre you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Yes. 1. The July, 2006, Parachutist says so, and there were no errors in historical details in that issue. 2. I have in front of me the Feb. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the Parachute Club of America," and the Sept. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the United States Parachute Association." My collection of back magazines is reasonably complete but scattered and I don't feel like going to the garage and rummaging for the intervening issues. Best I can tell, the name change was approved at the General Membership Meeting in Tahlequah, OK, in July 1967, (and I was probably there.) My C license, issued sometime in 1966, is the PCA version. I can only speculate that headquarters continued to issue the PCA variety for some time after the name change becase it had lots of license cards in stock. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #24 December 5, 2006 Pop... Thanks for the observation/correction. I've looked back at the logbook scans and indeed, Nate Pond wasn't there. I guess I assumed he was because Istel, Sanborn and Guilfoyle were, as well as Nona Pond. Muriel Simbro's signature is there for sure, but perhaps she was just there with Hank and didn't take part and maybe the same is also true of others in the logbook but not in the picture. I'll ask Bill McCarthy for comments on this. I want to get this stuff right. Best, HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #25 December 7, 2006 Would some of you guys be so kind as to go the D.B. Cooper Unsolved thread and view the pictures I am trying to post. I haven't got the ones from 1960-1971 posted yet. As these would be the ones some of you might be able to help me with. When I saw Phoenix in you post - that was a red flag for me...to ask. Also looking in the area of Pyramid Lake - not sure what state - something I remembered him saying that didn't make any sense to me until I started my research. Please do not answer me on your wonderful thread, but do ALL of YOU be so kind as to send me by private email any information you might be able to provide me. Names he used John Williard, John Weber, John C. Collins, Claude Collins, Duane L Weber, Dwayne Webber and any variations of these. I am also trying to find a pilot or jumper by the name of Ed Hurand (not sure of the spelling, but sounds like). He had blue eyes and would have been born approx. from 1929 to 1934. From something in his conversation I got the impression he was a pilot. Thank you for allowing me to intrude. Jo WeberCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Guru312 0 #3 December 2, 2006 QuoteI began to rummage around in my attic... Quote Beats raking leaves I bet! Well...If could remember where I put the the rake, I'd rake leaves.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #4 December 2, 2006 Either way, this: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm is by-god one of the funniest things I've ever seen in skydiving. I only wish I could have been there when it was first run. Especially with the media going ballistic. Unfortunately today most of the whuffo public wouldn't understand the reference and it would be lost on them. They would assume a 9/11 reference and become offended instead of seeing the now historical humor in it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #5 December 2, 2006 QuoteEither way, this: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm is by-god one of the funniest things I've ever seen in skydiving. I only wish I could have been there when it was first run. Especially with the media going ballistic. Unfortunately today most of the whuffo public wouldn't understand the reference and it would be lost on them. They would assume a 9/11 reference and become offended instead of seeing the now historical humor in it. Thanks! It's nice to have folks appreciate my humor. But imagine what grief I'd have if that got printed today.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #6 December 2, 2006 From Parachutist, August, 1970: "The first USPA Instructor Certification Course was held in Manchester, Connecticut on 3 and 4 April 1970. Thirty-five jumpers from ten states were certified after two days of intensive lectures, written and practical tests." --- Among the faculty members and graduates was me. Among other graduates, such unknowns as Dan Poynter and Ted Strong. HW (olde person) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #7 December 2, 2006 QuoteFrom Parachutist, August, 1970: "The first USPA Instructor Certification Course was held in Manchester, Connecticut on 3 and 4 April 1970. Thirty-five jumpers from ten states were certified after two days of intensive lectures, written and practical tests." --- Among the faculty members and graduates was me. Among other graduates, such unknowns as Dan Poynter and Ted Strong. HW (olde person) Dear Olde Howard... Thanks for this information. I couldn't ask for more reliable sources: you and Parachutist. And now with this information from you, I may have to adjust my memory of the wild night I had with Bridgette Bardot and some blonde named Marilyn. Getting olde is a drag.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #8 December 2, 2006 I may have to adjust my memory of the wild night I had with Bridgette Bardot and some blonde named Marilyn. Quote Which is why one should always keep those kind of skeletons in the closet, not the ATTIC! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybill 22 #9 December 3, 2006 Hi Up, someone quoted from scareachutist about the 1970 first ICC. Prior to that if you had a class C license you could "Jumpmaster" students and a D license holder could Instruct. Then things changed!! Still have my old original B license wings with the little dangly piece saying "Parachutist." Then when I got my C license they sent me a the dangly piece saying JUMPMASTER After things changed the C license got changed to Advanced!! Oh well. Now they are going to redo the wings and things!!!!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #10 December 3, 2006 There is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #11 December 3, 2006 QuoteThere is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Hmm, not the same "first ICC" I was referring to. I have the picture somewhere. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #12 December 3, 2006 I always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #13 December 3, 2006 QuoteI always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Well, no, not really. When I was at the Pioneers of Sport Parachuting reunion in Nevada in October (Parachutist story and pix coming in a month or so), Bill McCarthy, D-83, showed me his log book documenting that event. I scanned it, along with his picture of the participants. In it, he writes: "First Examiner Course Phoenix, Arizona, 2/62" and it's signed by, I guess, all participants. Perry Stevens was indeed among them, though Poynter was not. A partial list, arbitrarily limited to those with D <100. Lew Sanborn, D-1 Jacques-André Istel, D-2 (he also signed as Inst.#1) Danny Byard, D-11 Loy Brydon D-12 Lynn Pyland, D-14 Robert A. Spatola, D-24 Bill Jolly,D-26 William Elfers, D-28 Thomas Kirtley, D-29 Paul Poppenhager, D-47 Lee Guilfoyle, D-50 Perry Stevens, D-51 Hank Simbro, D-63 Philip L. Goetsch, D-65 Nate Pond, D-69 Coy McDonald, D-70 John Hollis, D-73 Joe Norman, D-77 Murial Simbro, D-78 Ray S. Cole Jr., D-82 Bill McCarthy, D-83 Ed Fitch, D-89 Among the other participants, Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell, C-345 Sometime later (don't have exact date at the moment) PCA implemented the Instuctor/Examiner rating. In 1969, USPA reworked the whole thing; until then, if you had a C license you were a Jumpmaster and if you had a D, you were an Instructor (whether or not you actually did that stuff.) In the period after that change, USPA issued Jumpmater ratings separate from the license structure, but did not issue Instructor ratings until the April, 1970 course. Please shut me up now; I'm blabbering again. HW Picture attached: Istel in front row center, hands crossed, Gen. Stilwell to his left, Sanborn second from left in first row. I leave it to you to identify the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #14 December 4, 2006 Quote I leave it to you to identify the others. The guy on the far left, front row is DB Cooper. Actually, this post clears up the issue. You are referencing PCA where I'm asking about USPA. I think the name changed in the earlier '60s, maybe 64? My Instructor Rating was issued by Norm Heaton in 1971 when USPA was the associations name and after the 'reorg' of the training and safety syllabus. Because of some weird office accounting, my Instructor Rating is dated March 21, 71 and my JM rating April 5, 71. I can't understand how I could have an I before having a JM but...there it is. Does anyone know when PCA became USPA? The only piece of memorabilia I haven't been able to find is my PCA patch.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #15 December 4, 2006 HI Howard, Let me try my luck: Front row, 3rd from right is Stillwell, next to Istel On the other side of Istel, front row, is Gunby 2nd row, 2nd from left is Perry Stevens 2nd row, 1st from right is Brydon Back row, 1st from right looks like Daryl Henry Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch That's about it for me; how did I do? Jerry PS) Hi Guru, USPA came into being in '68; as I recall. But do not bet any $$$ on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #16 December 4, 2006 You did pretty well. I have the advantage of a high-quality 8 x 10 print, you have the advantage of knowing more of them. 1. I have corrected my original post to include two other D<100 I had left out -- Kirtley and Goetsch 2. The full list from the logbook has 40 names; there are only 23 people in the picture. Among those not in the picture were the three women, Muriel Simbro, Carolyn Olson, and Nona Pond, as well as Nate Pond. 3. I would have thought Daryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. Ed Fitch with glasses at right end of back row. 4. Now that I have gotten in this deep, I suppose I'll just have to ask Bill McCarthy. No point in having an historical picture without proper IDs. (Or maybe Poppenhager will drop by with the answer.) 4. PCA -> USPA was in 1967. Doesn't affect my original statement that the April '70 thing was the first USPA I course. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #17 December 4, 2006 As a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #18 December 4, 2006 More: QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #19 December 4, 2006 Quote QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. o.k. Looks like the Daryl Henry I met in October. Quote QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? What you said is "Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch" Just clarifying. I'll get the rest of the names from Those Who Were There. Thanks for your help. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #20 December 4, 2006 QuoteAs a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit. Attached is Dan Poynter's picture of the 1970 "first" course. Jump suit already creeping in. Prizes awarded for IDs. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BCA 1 #21 December 4, 2006 Are you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #22 December 4, 2006 Howard, My photo is an original and is in reverse of yours (copy problem).The 1st instructor examiner course was held in Pheonix the weekend of Feb.21,22,23,1962 (Washingtons birthday) now called Presidents day.PCA sponsored and (paid for it).There were 23 participants and Nate Pond nor Murial Simbrio were involved. We all learned alot there and had a great time even thou the weather sucked the first day. I drew #21. Of the ones still with us,it's hard to even reconize ourselves much less the others today since it was 45 years ago!!!!! POP D47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #23 December 4, 2006 QuoteAre you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Yes. 1. The July, 2006, Parachutist says so, and there were no errors in historical details in that issue. 2. I have in front of me the Feb. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the Parachute Club of America," and the Sept. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the United States Parachute Association." My collection of back magazines is reasonably complete but scattered and I don't feel like going to the garage and rummaging for the intervening issues. Best I can tell, the name change was approved at the General Membership Meeting in Tahlequah, OK, in July 1967, (and I was probably there.) My C license, issued sometime in 1966, is the PCA version. I can only speculate that headquarters continued to issue the PCA variety for some time after the name change becase it had lots of license cards in stock. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #24 December 5, 2006 Pop... Thanks for the observation/correction. I've looked back at the logbook scans and indeed, Nate Pond wasn't there. I guess I assumed he was because Istel, Sanborn and Guilfoyle were, as well as Nona Pond. Muriel Simbro's signature is there for sure, but perhaps she was just there with Hank and didn't take part and maybe the same is also true of others in the logbook but not in the picture. I'll ask Bill McCarthy for comments on this. I want to get this stuff right. Best, HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #25 December 7, 2006 Would some of you guys be so kind as to go the D.B. Cooper Unsolved thread and view the pictures I am trying to post. I haven't got the ones from 1960-1971 posted yet. As these would be the ones some of you might be able to help me with. When I saw Phoenix in you post - that was a red flag for me...to ask. Also looking in the area of Pyramid Lake - not sure what state - something I remembered him saying that didn't make any sense to me until I started my research. Please do not answer me on your wonderful thread, but do ALL of YOU be so kind as to send me by private email any information you might be able to provide me. Names he used John Williard, John Weber, John C. Collins, Claude Collins, Duane L Weber, Dwayne Webber and any variations of these. I am also trying to find a pilot or jumper by the name of Ed Hurand (not sure of the spelling, but sounds like). He had blue eyes and would have been born approx. from 1929 to 1934. From something in his conversation I got the impression he was a pilot. Thank you for allowing me to intrude. Jo WeberCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
AggieDave 6 #4 December 2, 2006 Either way, this: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm is by-god one of the funniest things I've ever seen in skydiving. I only wish I could have been there when it was first run. Especially with the media going ballistic. Unfortunately today most of the whuffo public wouldn't understand the reference and it would be lost on them. They would assume a 9/11 reference and become offended instead of seeing the now historical humor in it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #5 December 2, 2006 QuoteEither way, this: http://berniesayers.com/I_am_not_DB_Cooper.htm is by-god one of the funniest things I've ever seen in skydiving. I only wish I could have been there when it was first run. Especially with the media going ballistic. Unfortunately today most of the whuffo public wouldn't understand the reference and it would be lost on them. They would assume a 9/11 reference and become offended instead of seeing the now historical humor in it. Thanks! It's nice to have folks appreciate my humor. But imagine what grief I'd have if that got printed today.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #6 December 2, 2006 From Parachutist, August, 1970: "The first USPA Instructor Certification Course was held in Manchester, Connecticut on 3 and 4 April 1970. Thirty-five jumpers from ten states were certified after two days of intensive lectures, written and practical tests." --- Among the faculty members and graduates was me. Among other graduates, such unknowns as Dan Poynter and Ted Strong. HW (olde person) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #7 December 2, 2006 QuoteFrom Parachutist, August, 1970: "The first USPA Instructor Certification Course was held in Manchester, Connecticut on 3 and 4 April 1970. Thirty-five jumpers from ten states were certified after two days of intensive lectures, written and practical tests." --- Among the faculty members and graduates was me. Among other graduates, such unknowns as Dan Poynter and Ted Strong. HW (olde person) Dear Olde Howard... Thanks for this information. I couldn't ask for more reliable sources: you and Parachutist. And now with this information from you, I may have to adjust my memory of the wild night I had with Bridgette Bardot and some blonde named Marilyn. Getting olde is a drag.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #8 December 2, 2006 I may have to adjust my memory of the wild night I had with Bridgette Bardot and some blonde named Marilyn. Quote Which is why one should always keep those kind of skeletons in the closet, not the ATTIC! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybill 22 #9 December 3, 2006 Hi Up, someone quoted from scareachutist about the 1970 first ICC. Prior to that if you had a class C license you could "Jumpmaster" students and a D license holder could Instruct. Then things changed!! Still have my old original B license wings with the little dangly piece saying "Parachutist." Then when I got my C license they sent me a the dangly piece saying JUMPMASTER After things changed the C license got changed to Advanced!! Oh well. Now they are going to redo the wings and things!!!!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 4 #10 December 3, 2006 There is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #11 December 3, 2006 QuoteThere is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Hmm, not the same "first ICC" I was referring to. I have the picture somewhere. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #12 December 3, 2006 I always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #13 December 3, 2006 QuoteI always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Well, no, not really. When I was at the Pioneers of Sport Parachuting reunion in Nevada in October (Parachutist story and pix coming in a month or so), Bill McCarthy, D-83, showed me his log book documenting that event. I scanned it, along with his picture of the participants. In it, he writes: "First Examiner Course Phoenix, Arizona, 2/62" and it's signed by, I guess, all participants. Perry Stevens was indeed among them, though Poynter was not. A partial list, arbitrarily limited to those with D <100. Lew Sanborn, D-1 Jacques-André Istel, D-2 (he also signed as Inst.#1) Danny Byard, D-11 Loy Brydon D-12 Lynn Pyland, D-14 Robert A. Spatola, D-24 Bill Jolly,D-26 William Elfers, D-28 Thomas Kirtley, D-29 Paul Poppenhager, D-47 Lee Guilfoyle, D-50 Perry Stevens, D-51 Hank Simbro, D-63 Philip L. Goetsch, D-65 Nate Pond, D-69 Coy McDonald, D-70 John Hollis, D-73 Joe Norman, D-77 Murial Simbro, D-78 Ray S. Cole Jr., D-82 Bill McCarthy, D-83 Ed Fitch, D-89 Among the other participants, Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell, C-345 Sometime later (don't have exact date at the moment) PCA implemented the Instuctor/Examiner rating. In 1969, USPA reworked the whole thing; until then, if you had a C license you were a Jumpmaster and if you had a D, you were an Instructor (whether or not you actually did that stuff.) In the period after that change, USPA issued Jumpmater ratings separate from the license structure, but did not issue Instructor ratings until the April, 1970 course. Please shut me up now; I'm blabbering again. HW Picture attached: Istel in front row center, hands crossed, Gen. Stilwell to his left, Sanborn second from left in first row. I leave it to you to identify the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guru312 0 #14 December 4, 2006 Quote I leave it to you to identify the others. The guy on the far left, front row is DB Cooper. Actually, this post clears up the issue. You are referencing PCA where I'm asking about USPA. I think the name changed in the earlier '60s, maybe 64? My Instructor Rating was issued by Norm Heaton in 1971 when USPA was the associations name and after the 'reorg' of the training and safety syllabus. Because of some weird office accounting, my Instructor Rating is dated March 21, 71 and my JM rating April 5, 71. I can't understand how I could have an I before having a JM but...there it is. Does anyone know when PCA became USPA? The only piece of memorabilia I haven't been able to find is my PCA patch.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #15 December 4, 2006 HI Howard, Let me try my luck: Front row, 3rd from right is Stillwell, next to Istel On the other side of Istel, front row, is Gunby 2nd row, 2nd from left is Perry Stevens 2nd row, 1st from right is Brydon Back row, 1st from right looks like Daryl Henry Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch That's about it for me; how did I do? Jerry PS) Hi Guru, USPA came into being in '68; as I recall. But do not bet any $$$ on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #16 December 4, 2006 You did pretty well. I have the advantage of a high-quality 8 x 10 print, you have the advantage of knowing more of them. 1. I have corrected my original post to include two other D<100 I had left out -- Kirtley and Goetsch 2. The full list from the logbook has 40 names; there are only 23 people in the picture. Among those not in the picture were the three women, Muriel Simbro, Carolyn Olson, and Nona Pond, as well as Nate Pond. 3. I would have thought Daryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. Ed Fitch with glasses at right end of back row. 4. Now that I have gotten in this deep, I suppose I'll just have to ask Bill McCarthy. No point in having an historical picture without proper IDs. (Or maybe Poppenhager will drop by with the answer.) 4. PCA -> USPA was in 1967. Doesn't affect my original statement that the April '70 thing was the first USPA I course. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #17 December 4, 2006 As a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,362 #18 December 4, 2006 More: QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #19 December 4, 2006 Quote QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. o.k. Looks like the Daryl Henry I met in October. Quote QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? What you said is "Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch" Just clarifying. I'll get the rest of the names from Those Who Were There. Thanks for your help. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #20 December 4, 2006 QuoteAs a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit. Attached is Dan Poynter's picture of the 1970 "first" course. Jump suit already creeping in. Prizes awarded for IDs. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BCA 1 #21 December 4, 2006 Are you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites poppenhager 1 #22 December 4, 2006 Howard, My photo is an original and is in reverse of yours (copy problem).The 1st instructor examiner course was held in Pheonix the weekend of Feb.21,22,23,1962 (Washingtons birthday) now called Presidents day.PCA sponsored and (paid for it).There were 23 participants and Nate Pond nor Murial Simbrio were involved. We all learned alot there and had a great time even thou the weather sucked the first day. I drew #21. Of the ones still with us,it's hard to even reconize ourselves much less the others today since it was 45 years ago!!!!! POP D47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #23 December 4, 2006 QuoteAre you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Yes. 1. The July, 2006, Parachutist says so, and there were no errors in historical details in that issue. 2. I have in front of me the Feb. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the Parachute Club of America," and the Sept. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the United States Parachute Association." My collection of back magazines is reasonably complete but scattered and I don't feel like going to the garage and rummaging for the intervening issues. Best I can tell, the name change was approved at the General Membership Meeting in Tahlequah, OK, in July 1967, (and I was probably there.) My C license, issued sometime in 1966, is the PCA version. I can only speculate that headquarters continued to issue the PCA variety for some time after the name change becase it had lots of license cards in stock. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites howardwhite 6 #24 December 5, 2006 Pop... Thanks for the observation/correction. I've looked back at the logbook scans and indeed, Nate Pond wasn't there. I guess I assumed he was because Istel, Sanborn and Guilfoyle were, as well as Nona Pond. Muriel Simbro's signature is there for sure, but perhaps she was just there with Hank and didn't take part and maybe the same is also true of others in the logbook but not in the picture. I'll ask Bill McCarthy for comments on this. I want to get this stuff right. Best, HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #25 December 7, 2006 Would some of you guys be so kind as to go the D.B. Cooper Unsolved thread and view the pictures I am trying to post. I haven't got the ones from 1960-1971 posted yet. As these would be the ones some of you might be able to help me with. When I saw Phoenix in you post - that was a red flag for me...to ask. Also looking in the area of Pyramid Lake - not sure what state - something I remembered him saying that didn't make any sense to me until I started my research. Please do not answer me on your wonderful thread, but do ALL of YOU be so kind as to send me by private email any information you might be able to provide me. Names he used John Williard, John Weber, John C. Collins, Claude Collins, Duane L Weber, Dwayne Webber and any variations of these. I am also trying to find a pilot or jumper by the name of Ed Hurand (not sure of the spelling, but sounds like). He had blue eyes and would have been born approx. from 1929 to 1934. From something in his conversation I got the impression he was a pilot. Thank you for allowing me to intrude. Jo WeberCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
skybill 22 #9 December 3, 2006 Hi Up, someone quoted from scareachutist about the 1970 first ICC. Prior to that if you had a class C license you could "Jumpmaster" students and a D license holder could Instruct. Then things changed!! Still have my old original B license wings with the little dangly piece saying "Parachutist." Then when I got my C license they sent me a the dangly piece saying JUMPMASTER After things changed the C license got changed to Advanced!! Oh well. Now they are going to redo the wings and things!!!!!SCR-2034, SCS-680 III%, Deli-out Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #10 December 3, 2006 There is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #11 December 3, 2006 QuoteThere is a picture of that first ICC hanging in the bar, Aviators, at Raeford. Paul Keith Thacker and Chris Needels are in it. Hmm, not the same "first ICC" I was referring to. I have the picture somewhere. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #12 December 3, 2006 I always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #13 December 3, 2006 QuoteI always thought that the 'first' course was in '63. That is when Poynter, Perry Stevens, et al got their ratings. Yes?????? Well, no, not really. When I was at the Pioneers of Sport Parachuting reunion in Nevada in October (Parachutist story and pix coming in a month or so), Bill McCarthy, D-83, showed me his log book documenting that event. I scanned it, along with his picture of the participants. In it, he writes: "First Examiner Course Phoenix, Arizona, 2/62" and it's signed by, I guess, all participants. Perry Stevens was indeed among them, though Poynter was not. A partial list, arbitrarily limited to those with D <100. Lew Sanborn, D-1 Jacques-André Istel, D-2 (he also signed as Inst.#1) Danny Byard, D-11 Loy Brydon D-12 Lynn Pyland, D-14 Robert A. Spatola, D-24 Bill Jolly,D-26 William Elfers, D-28 Thomas Kirtley, D-29 Paul Poppenhager, D-47 Lee Guilfoyle, D-50 Perry Stevens, D-51 Hank Simbro, D-63 Philip L. Goetsch, D-65 Nate Pond, D-69 Coy McDonald, D-70 John Hollis, D-73 Joe Norman, D-77 Murial Simbro, D-78 Ray S. Cole Jr., D-82 Bill McCarthy, D-83 Ed Fitch, D-89 Among the other participants, Gen. Joseph W. Stilwell, C-345 Sometime later (don't have exact date at the moment) PCA implemented the Instuctor/Examiner rating. In 1969, USPA reworked the whole thing; until then, if you had a C license you were a Jumpmaster and if you had a D, you were an Instructor (whether or not you actually did that stuff.) In the period after that change, USPA issued Jumpmater ratings separate from the license structure, but did not issue Instructor ratings until the April, 1970 course. Please shut me up now; I'm blabbering again. HW Picture attached: Istel in front row center, hands crossed, Gen. Stilwell to his left, Sanborn second from left in first row. I leave it to you to identify the others. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #14 December 4, 2006 Quote I leave it to you to identify the others. The guy on the far left, front row is DB Cooper. Actually, this post clears up the issue. You are referencing PCA where I'm asking about USPA. I think the name changed in the earlier '60s, maybe 64? My Instructor Rating was issued by Norm Heaton in 1971 when USPA was the associations name and after the 'reorg' of the training and safety syllabus. Because of some weird office accounting, my Instructor Rating is dated March 21, 71 and my JM rating April 5, 71. I can't understand how I could have an I before having a JM but...there it is. Does anyone know when PCA became USPA? The only piece of memorabilia I haven't been able to find is my PCA patch.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #15 December 4, 2006 HI Howard, Let me try my luck: Front row, 3rd from right is Stillwell, next to Istel On the other side of Istel, front row, is Gunby 2nd row, 2nd from left is Perry Stevens 2nd row, 1st from right is Brydon Back row, 1st from right looks like Daryl Henry Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch That's about it for me; how did I do? Jerry PS) Hi Guru, USPA came into being in '68; as I recall. But do not bet any $$$ on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #16 December 4, 2006 You did pretty well. I have the advantage of a high-quality 8 x 10 print, you have the advantage of knowing more of them. 1. I have corrected my original post to include two other D<100 I had left out -- Kirtley and Goetsch 2. The full list from the logbook has 40 names; there are only 23 people in the picture. Among those not in the picture were the three women, Muriel Simbro, Carolyn Olson, and Nona Pond, as well as Nate Pond. 3. I would have thought Daryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. Ed Fitch with glasses at right end of back row. 4. Now that I have gotten in this deep, I suppose I'll just have to ask Bill McCarthy. No point in having an historical picture without proper IDs. (Or maybe Poppenhager will drop by with the answer.) 4. PCA -> USPA was in 1967. Doesn't affect my original statement that the April '70 thing was the first USPA I course. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #17 December 4, 2006 As a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,362 #18 December 4, 2006 More: QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #19 December 4, 2006 Quote QuoteDaryl Henry was second from left at top, standing in the door with the white tie. I think that is Hank Simbro. o.k. Looks like the Daryl Henry I met in October. Quote QuoteEd Fitch with glasses at right end of back row Isn't that what I said? What you said is "Back row, 3rd from right is Ed Fitch" Just clarifying. I'll get the rest of the names from Those Who Were There. Thanks for your help. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #20 December 4, 2006 QuoteAs a side note, how many ratings courses now days have a group picture that would have all the participants in a suit? A "real" suit, not a jump suit. Attached is Dan Poynter's picture of the 1970 "first" course. Jump suit already creeping in. Prizes awarded for IDs. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BCA 1 #21 December 4, 2006 Are you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
poppenhager 1 #22 December 4, 2006 Howard, My photo is an original and is in reverse of yours (copy problem).The 1st instructor examiner course was held in Pheonix the weekend of Feb.21,22,23,1962 (Washingtons birthday) now called Presidents day.PCA sponsored and (paid for it).There were 23 participants and Nate Pond nor Murial Simbrio were involved. We all learned alot there and had a great time even thou the weather sucked the first day. I drew #21. Of the ones still with us,it's hard to even reconize ourselves much less the others today since it was 45 years ago!!!!! POP D47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #23 December 4, 2006 QuoteAre you sure about the date when PCA became USPA? My D lic. was issued in 1969 and was from the Parachute Club of America. BCA Yes. 1. The July, 2006, Parachutist says so, and there were no errors in historical details in that issue. 2. I have in front of me the Feb. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the Parachute Club of America," and the Sept. 1967, Parachutist, "The Publication of the United States Parachute Association." My collection of back magazines is reasonably complete but scattered and I don't feel like going to the garage and rummaging for the intervening issues. Best I can tell, the name change was approved at the General Membership Meeting in Tahlequah, OK, in July 1967, (and I was probably there.) My C license, issued sometime in 1966, is the PCA version. I can only speculate that headquarters continued to issue the PCA variety for some time after the name change becase it had lots of license cards in stock. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #24 December 5, 2006 Pop... Thanks for the observation/correction. I've looked back at the logbook scans and indeed, Nate Pond wasn't there. I guess I assumed he was because Istel, Sanborn and Guilfoyle were, as well as Nona Pond. Muriel Simbro's signature is there for sure, but perhaps she was just there with Hank and didn't take part and maybe the same is also true of others in the logbook but not in the picture. I'll ask Bill McCarthy for comments on this. I want to get this stuff right. Best, HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #25 December 7, 2006 Would some of you guys be so kind as to go the D.B. Cooper Unsolved thread and view the pictures I am trying to post. I haven't got the ones from 1960-1971 posted yet. As these would be the ones some of you might be able to help me with. When I saw Phoenix in you post - that was a red flag for me...to ask. Also looking in the area of Pyramid Lake - not sure what state - something I remembered him saying that didn't make any sense to me until I started my research. Please do not answer me on your wonderful thread, but do ALL of YOU be so kind as to send me by private email any information you might be able to provide me. Names he used John Williard, John Weber, John C. Collins, Claude Collins, Duane L Weber, Dwayne Webber and any variations of these. I am also trying to find a pilot or jumper by the name of Ed Hurand (not sure of the spelling, but sounds like). He had blue eyes and would have been born approx. from 1929 to 1934. From something in his conversation I got the impression he was a pilot. Thank you for allowing me to intrude. Jo WeberCopyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
