howardwhite 6 #26 January 4, 2007 O.K., just a couple more, and then I'm done HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSBIRD 1 #27 January 4, 2007 QuoteO.K., just a couple more, and then I'm done HW The square with the flares on the bottom surface looks like a ParaSled to me. 359"Now I've settled down, in a quiet little town, and forgot about everything" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #28 January 4, 2007 Looking at the foil, I'd guess it is a Para-Sled, because of the split tail. Can't tell for sure on the cheapo, but a lot of 24-flat canopies had that candy-stripe design, but so did a lot of 28' cheapos. The square in the photo, with the bottom skin "vents," looks like a Strato-Cloud ... the upgraded version of the Paraplane made out of lighter materials. Howard, I almost bought a combo scanner, copier, printer machine today, but held off to get a little advice on what brand model to buy from one of my more technically inclinded friends. I've got some stuff it would be fun to scan and put up here.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #29 January 4, 2007 Cheapo Photo: I think it is a Cloud also, The only other canopy with vents like that (I think) was the Viking, but it had round holes. Candy stripe 28's were pretty old I think. I'm not sure what year the military switched to the "modern" 4-panel color scheme. c photo: I agree, the split tail makes it a sled I think. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #30 January 4, 2007 Zing and darkwing: Yup, it's a Sled. I think I jumped one once or twice, but can't be sure. Someone (Ted Strong, maybe) had one in Massachusetts for a while in the early 70s and I also jumped at a little DZ in Delray Beach, FL where they were being tested. I was at USPA HQ last week and saw a Sled packing manual, but had already packed up my scanner so didn't grab images. The square and cheapo picture was taken at Orange, MA, so the cheapo was certainly a student C-9 ("Gary gore"). When I get to look at the original again, I'll see if it's dated. As to scanner/copier/fax combo, get it if you need a copier and fax, but if you have a printer and don't need fax, a stand-alone scanner is better and probably cheaper. I have a pretty good consumer-level scanner (Epson Perfection 4490) and some third-party scanning software plus Photoshop. But all of my scans are done with the possibility in mind that the picture might eventually see print (as in a book or magazine), so I scan and retain at high resolution (disk space and DVDs are cheap these days.) It's easy enough to chop them down for web sites or for meeting the size limits for pix here. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BCA 1 #31 January 4, 2007 I have an original Para Sled manual. Let me know if you need a copy of the packing instuctions. BCA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #32 January 4, 2007 QuoteZing and darkwing: The square and cheapo picture was taken at Orange, MA, so the cheapo was certainly a student C-9 ("Gary gore"). When I get to look at the original again, I'll see if it's dated. HW It must be post 1975, since it has a slider... -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #33 January 4, 2007 QuoteIt must be post 1975, since it has a slider... Here's a bit of text by Greg Yarbenet, then at Pioneer, who is generally credited with inventing the slider: === The slider concept started in 1973. I was working for Pioneer Parachute Company as a consultant on improving the single membrane Volplane. The hydraulic opener proved to be a problem in cold weather and represented sizable bulk when packed. After watching the Pilot chute Controlled Reefing System by Steve Snyder, I realized a system with pilot chutes was already patented. My attention went to the lower surface for a reefing system. I had a scale flying model (6 sq. ft.) of a Volplane I folded many a time and tossed into the air to test ideas. As I observed the openings the idea of a ring (my wedding ring worked great!) sliding down the lines to control the expansion of the wing occurred to me. The model Volplane and my ring worked great . . now, to apply it to a full size wing! Instead of one ring, four rings (one for each riser group plus an extra strap to connect them) were used. When test jumped, the canopy pulled free from the bag and . . . POW! . . . what happened? The opening was really hard and the rings slid down the lines so fast they were a blur. Back to the drawing board! The idea of a pilot chute attached to the cross slider up through the wing was used next – it worked really well, but I felt it infringed on Steve's P.C.R., so I decided to leave out the pilot chute (one company is using my slider with the pilot chute). After watching slow motion movies of the deployment, I realized all that was needed was more drag in the slider. As a result, we added a small rectangle of material in between the rings for drag. ==== I had a Volplane, initially with the hydraulic system (I still have the reefing system), and replaced it with a slider in, I guess, 1974. (Not to suggest that you're wrong about your date conclusion for other canopies; i had a lively inprint exchange with Elek Puskas of Para-Flight after I published an article, in 1976, about how I'd put a slider on my Strato-Star. He thought that was a terrible and dangerous thing to do.) HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #34 January 5, 2007 QuoteO.K., just a couple more, and then I'm done HW Only kidding... I couldn't resist this one. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #35 January 5, 2007 That is a low altitude low airspeed parachute developed by H. O . Bucker in 1976 and has only three suspension lines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #36 January 5, 2007 Here's a better Hornet picture I just found. I'd forgotten what a really wierd design it was. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #37 January 6, 2007 As for the Buckner parachute, I seem to recall the 3 suspension lines then cascaded, and the cascades included catenary style lines that were mainly horizontal, joining other lines that went up to the canopy. Difficult to describe, but it reminds me of a suspension bridge. Somewhere there's a better photo out there. Here's another canopy to identify. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #38 January 6, 2007 It's a batfoil, the prototype to the batwing.....you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #39 January 6, 2007 You know beatnic is sitting there thinking where can I find one of those, babies.you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #40 January 6, 2007 Damn, how did you know. Are you reading my mind? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #41 January 6, 2007 QuoteAs for the Buckner parachute, I seem to recall the 3 suspension lines then cascaded, and the cascades included catenary style lines that were mainly horizontal, joining other lines that went up to the canopy. Difficult to describe, but it reminds me of a suspension bridge. Somewhere there's a better photo out there. Well, here's one of the patent drawings. (I've got the rest of them.) The structure shaping the canopy consists of inflatable tubes. You sit on the windowsill of your burning building, turn on the gas (see the little cylinder), inflate, and go. No, Beatnik, I don't have one in my garage.HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #42 January 6, 2007 This thread is very interesting. Just for the heck of it, I used Google/Patent search to look for "parachute slider" and got these hits: http://www.google.com/patents?q=parachute+slider&btnG=Search+Patents Check out this Google Patent search here: http://www.google.com/patents Click on the "Advanced Patent Search" link for all the possible combinations. Steve Snyder certainly has his share. Not meant to hijack your thread, Howard, just to give all us old folks a chance to refresh our memory on who has patents on what. The only trouble is how much time I waste using it!Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #43 January 6, 2007 Hijack awayI Googled, then got patents from freepantentsonline, which is, indeed free but requires registration. By the way, I have no clue about the canopy posted by pchapman, the square with the cutout in the back. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #44 January 7, 2007 " ... the canopy posted by pchapman, the square with the cutout in the back." Hey Howard, I'm drawing a complete blank on that one too. From the looks of it though, it appears to be some type of accuracy canopy with the stabilizer panels, the exaggerated "flares" on the bottom skin and the multiple vents. I'd wager there weren't many of them made.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #45 January 7, 2007 QuoteNo, Beatnik, I don't have one in my garage. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #46 January 8, 2007 Re: the canopy posted by pchapman Well I gave it a couple days so I'll say what it is. canopy.jpg depicted a Sutton Flow-Form parachute. I'm curious about it myself, and only know what I copied out of a 1987 Canpara magazine. The canopy was designed by Steve Sutton, who was on the Canadian team in '72 and apparently got a silver medal at the worlds in accuracy. He experimented with his accuracy canopy ideas for years, got a few patents, and by the time of the photo, was working with Strong Enterprises to develop the canopy. While the canopy never went anywhere, it is interesting to see that it got as far as being represented by a major manufacturer. The canopy is supposed to have various vents on "top and bottom surfaces, the inside ribs and the trailing edge", that may open or close depending on the mode of flight. It would be fun to track down the patents some day! It's simplest to attach a scan of the short article that accompanied the photo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #47 January 8, 2007 QuoteIt would be fun to track down the patents some day! It's simplest to attach a scan of the short article that accompanied the photo. Here are other pictures: http://www.foreverflying.com/sutton.html I wasted some time searching the Google patent data base using words like: air foil, strong, steve sutton, ram air, wing and couldn't find anything. Maybe it was patented in Canada and assigned to Strong in the US and that's not showing up. It's certainly interesting looking the color photos but I can't understand the purpose of the split trailing edge.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #48 January 8, 2007 QuoteI wasted some time searching the Google patent data base using words like: air foil, strong, steve sutton, ram air, wing and couldn't find anything. Gee, I found several Steve Sutton patents (e.g. 3893641). though none with this design. I, too, wondered about the trailing edge. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guru312 0 #49 January 8, 2007 Quote Gee, I found several Steve Sutton patents (e.g. 3893641). though none with this design. I, too, wondered about the trailing edge. HW You are right, again. My dumbness!!! I used "steve" rather than Stephen.Guru312 I am not DB Cooper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #50 January 8, 2007 QuoteRe: the canopy posted by pchapman Well I gave it a couple days so I'll say what it is. canopy.jpg depicted a Sutton Flow-Form parachute. I'm curious about it myself, and only know what I copied out of a 1987 Canpara magazine. The canopy was designed by Steve Sutton, who was on the Canadian team in '72 and apparently got a silver medal at the worlds in accuracy. He experimented with his accuracy canopy ideas for years, got a few patents, and by the time of the photo, was working with Strong Enterprises to develop the canopy. While the canopy never went anywhere, it is interesting to see that it got as far as being represented by a major manufacturer. The canopy is supposed to have various vents on "top and bottom surfaces, the inside ribs and the trailing edge", that may open or close depending on the mode of flight. It would be fun to track down the patents some day! It's simplest to attach a scan of the short article that accompanied the photo. Holy crap, Steve was working on several ram air design modifications at Z-Hills in 1973-4 while I was the rigger there. He cut holes in the bottom skin and in the ribs between cells in all kinds of ram air canopies (I had never seen some of them and have no idea where they came from). I did some sewing for him, but he was somewhat secretive about what the holes were supposed to do. I saw him throw out a 24' round reserve behind one of his creations about 100ft from the ground. One swing and thud (he was not exactly light). I remember he got a 400sq ft ram air in to "play with" and we took it out and towed it behind a truck on the back runway with 3000ft of line. Several of us flew it that way, it was perfect for that. Took me forever to come down after release though since I weighed only 135lbs... What ever became of Steve, is he still with us somewhere? ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
