Fall Like a Rock

[gale 0]

So here's the situation: I'm doing PFF, and I'm doing OK, but on my last dive neither of my instructors could keep up with me because I fall so fast (150mph belly to earth). I'm bigger then most girls (although, lots of guys are my weight) and to add to it I'm very flexible, so my arch is very "archy".
I responded to body correcting hand signals in my last dive but that didn't really help. So obviously I need to flatten out. So the question is, does anyone have any good tips on learning how to do that without going unstable? While I did respond to the cue from my instructor to straighten my legs last time, I really don't have very much feeling in my body during freefall.
Any suggestions?
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[ChromeBoy 0]

A nicer jumpsuit with slower fabric will help alot. If your a little bigger get more fabric to slow you down. Other than that you will learn the flying skills with jumping more!Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day! -Office Space

[gale 0]

Oh, we've sort of tried that. Big cotton suit on me!
I know experience is the ticket, I'm just looking for any additional training tips.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[rendezvous 0]

what do your jump masters suggest ?

[gale 0]

Bigger suit, if they can find one (like I said I'm already in a big cotton one) and try to flatten me out. I'm just not sure how to do this exaclty.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

150mph??!! You could try a rig with a drogue chute on it lol
When you participate in sporting events, its not whether you win or loose, its how drunk you get.

[gale 0]

Don't make fun of me! I've heard of other girls having this problem too. (The increased flexibility makes them prone sometimes.)
But, you know, if I don't come up with a better idea....
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[ChromeBoy 0]

Gale..I would prefer to let the instructors talk more about what you should do. But I will tell you when I was having this problem I was taught how to dearch or hub the beachball. This will slow you down rather quickly. With practice and a lot of jumps you learn how to arch/dearch to a point where you can fly with the descent rates of others.
Human beings were not meant to sit in little cubicles staring at computer screens all day! -Office Space

[nacmacfeegle 0]

Gale, I've spent a lot of my time in freefall trying to go slow, ysee, I'm a big bellied brute......
At your stage, I would only worry about flying your body around, safely. Fall rate should not concern you. If your instructor can't keep up, or more likely down, with you, then thats his/her problem.
Get yourself through the PFF (assuming this is like AFF??) safely first, then worry about developing those skills that you need to enjoy flying with other peeps.
If you do any coaching past student progression (highly recommended), one of the first things you will be taught is how to control fall rate.
Hugging the beach ball as mentioned earlier is a good way to start, also go to www.skydivemag.com, and enter 'mantis' into the search engine for a good article by the British girls team Vmax. This may help, mark the site as a favourite, cos its a great resource.
Don't get put off posting if you think people are making fun of you, they are probably just jesting, its a sign of affection, and you'll have to learn to live with this anyway....
Cya
D

[gale 0]

Oh, I know they're joking. I think it's kind of funny too. I think I surprised my instructors!
And, I can't really do nothing about it because due to my fall rate my instructor almost went right over the top of me last time and so he dumped me at 6,000+ So I didn't get anything done really. (Obviously he didn't want me pulling with him on top!)
Obviously we'll be discussing it in more detail before my next jump, I'm just looking for tips.
Beach ball huh? Sounds hard without going unstable.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[nacmacfeegle 0]

"Sounds hard without going unstable"
It is at first, but you'll get used to it, visualise yourself hugging that big ball....get your arms round it as much as possible, and try and squeeze against it with your thighs and knees...now de-arch slightly and your almost there...But your instructor should be able to help you better than a flailing freeflier like me.......enjoy it..
Cya
D

[RichM 0]

On the brighter side, a good friend of mine who is also flexible can do 178mph flat and only 166mph head down (not so stable). He has some awesome footage of two freeflyers in head down in a stable dock on his bell-to-earth position.
Keep at it, as said before it's your instructors responsibility to stay with you at this point. That may involve them wearing lead and putting you in a baggy freefly jumpsuit, but thet's their problem.
Have fun :)
Rich M

[Michele 1]

Hi, Gale
As a not small and petite little floater, and as a woman, I completely sympathize with your dilemma. I am very flexible, and I am not California skinny...
On my first release dive, Ed (my jm) lost me. The vid is hysterical. I'm looking around for him, and he is doing everything to catch up to me, and failing miserably. He is nearly head down at one point, totally tracking towards me, and then he gets his feet to his butt and arms way back and up. He never did catch me that jump. The vid guy was in a sit the entire time....
Ed's resolution was not necessarily a larger jumpsuit - although that is a good one (but beware your alti is not covered by the flapping fabric - mine was on one jump, so I dumped really high because I had no idea where I was). The responsibility of your JM is to keep up with you...Ed resolved it by wearing a tight jumpsuit (and catching heat on the dz for it too, LOL...), rolling the legs up to his knees, wearing a weight belt, and stretching hard, both on the ground and in the air.
Right now, it's hard enough to fall stable - let your jm's handle keeping up with you. You just fly and handle the level requirements. There will be time during your progression which you will learn the hugging the earth fall rate match (again with Ed - and that was a fun, fun level; level 7), and then during solos and coached jumps you will work on it.
Let your jm's handle it, Gale, that's what they do. Been there, done that....:) and when you get down this way, we'll jump - I fall about as fast as you. (BTW, here's a pix that shows my arch:
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Dropzone_Members/Personal_Galleries/michele&image=eds_flood_pant.jpg&img=&tt=
Ciels and Pinks-
Michele
If you really want to, you can seize the day; if you really want to, you can fly away...
~enya~

[slotperfect 7]

1) During your student progression, it is your instructors' responsibility to match your fall rate. That is why most instructors whose physical attributes don't allow for a lot of range have a whole bag full of jumpsuits. Now, they might be smart to put you in a bigger cotton suit to meet them halfway. Personally, I would never train a student to fly flat or de-arched to allow me to match their fall-rate.
2) Once you are humming along in the licensed jumper mode, jumpsuit selection will be important for you. Another REALLY valuable tool for you would be a vertical wind tunnel if you can swing it. The SkyVenture tunnel in Orlando, for example, has mirrors about 8 feet off the bottom so you can turn sideways and look at your body position. PERFECT for "fine-tuning" your de-arch (which will become necessary in RW for recovering from going low).
3) I am a BIG boy (with a steamer trunk full of jumpsuits, I might add), so if you're ever down my way give me a call. We can put together a fast faller plane load!
Hmmm . . . I think I'll start jumping a Pro-Track to log my fall rate!
Respectfully,
SP

[billvon 3,068]

>1) During your student progression, it is your instructors' responsibility to match
> your fall rate.
Agreed. Do NOT try to dearch and risk going unstable to match the fall rate of a floaty JM. I've worn an XL student jumpsuit to stay with light students, and 10 pounds of weight to stay with big ones. Matching fall rate is the JM's responsibility.
(BTW I hope you at least got a price break if you had to do that dive over!)
-bill von

[freeflydeeva 0]

Hey gale, from one fast faller to the next. These guys are right. It is hard enough trying to learn how to skydive without making yourself unstable. Let the jumpmasters do the work. They are getting paid for it. LOL A good jumpsuit down the road will help alot. Just make sure to get some opinions from others before you order. I didnt and mine doesnt slow me down enough.
Blue skies!

[gale 0]

Thanks to everyones good advice. (And it's nice to know that others have had this problem too.) I'm going out to the dz tomorrow and we'll see what we can do about getting a bigger jumpsuit, or them putting on weights. I'm glad people have said that I can wait to learn to de-arch, of course this will all be up to my instructors. I'll post how it goes tomorrow after the dive.
By the way, at my dz we have a package deal where you pay $1000 cdn up front and get the four levels of PFF with video once per level. So if you have to repeat you don't have to pay again. (No, they won't let you stretch that forever, you do have to TRY to pass the levels.) I've heard this is the cheapest place to learn to skydive! I think our dz owner is really in it for the sport more than the money.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[slotperfect 7]

More points to ponder . . . I always say faster is better. Think about driving your car on the Interstate at seventy miles an hour and changing lanes. You don't have to turn the wheel much, and it happens rather quickly. Now imagine making the same lane change at 15 miles an hour. You would have to turn the wheel more or wait longer for the car to move into the other lane.
Free fall is quite the same. The faster you go, the less effort it takes to perform maneuvers and they happen faster as well. Also, for me, when the fall rate is "up," and I can wear a jumpsuit that has less heavy material out there flopping around, I fly MUCH smoother.
Jumpsuit selection tips from "Big John:"
-buy used ones so you can afford more than one at a time
-booties not only provide more forward thrust, but they also provide lift. Choose Cordura for your bootie material.
-always choose a polycotton type material. It's hotter, but it's a slower falling material.
-choose big arms and legs over "wings." Unless you are using wings for a specific purpose (like jumping camera or sit-flying), they are a pain-in-the-ass, inflating when you don't want them to.
-I own about seven jumpsuits. My fave is a Michigan comp suit. It is a medium fall-rate suit for me, and it kicks ass. My slow faller is a big standard Tony suit with full booties.
Falling fast is NOT a "problem," nor is it a handicap. It's just another factor that has to be considered in planning a skydive. For example, unless it's a planeload of Clydesdales, I don't choose the exterior "hero" slots in a 25-way. I am happy with an interior slot. My biggest is a 74-way, and I was in the base. Because we big 'uns were smoking the fall rate, the formation built quicker and only one person went low cause he over-boogied (OK, so it was only 73).
Feel free to email me with more questions . . . slotperfect@nc.rr.com
Respectfully,
SP

[bhale 0]

I have over 1500 AFF jumps, and I would never discourage a student from arching. You may want to try relaxing a bit more, with being so flexible, you may be over-arching. Have you had your jumps video'd? I agree with the jumpsuit, more material. Certainly, don't change a good body position for the sake of a jumpmaster, who is having fall rate problems. Just remember the golden rule, pull at the correct altitude.

[gale 0]

Wow! That's lots of information! Thanks! I didn't actually think of getting more then one jumpsuit (duh) but it's a good idea. Nice to know you don't think it's a handicap.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[TEB6363 0]

All the advice given above is great. Also, as you pass your levels and get close to skydiving on your own, you want to think about getting your own jumpsuit.
There are some good companies out there and they can make the "correct" suite for you to fly with others. I'm not saying you need it to pass your training (that is up to the JM's), buy you will want to put it on your wish list early.
:::OK, Canopy is Open, No Traffic Around, .. Why are these "Extra" Lines Draping Down??, Damn!

[gale 0]

That's just what I was thinking! Some say that looking good is important in this sport and there not hope of that until I get out of these boxy, ill-fitting suit. Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[gale 0]

Well, I passed level to and did manage to slow my fall rate from 150mph to 131mph with a combination of a bigger suit and some appempt to dearch. For more information on the exciting day I had check out
I passed level 2 and got my first skydiving injury .
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[Staso 0]

how do you know that your speed is 150 ? do you have pro-track ? is it average/max speed ? sas/tas ? 150 is pretty high for average speed even for small and heavy person.
i personally trying in quite an opposite direction - speed skydiving. so far 287 mph is my best. it would've been faster if my booty hadn't blown and my jumpsuit hadn't popped open :)
stan.

[hobbes4star 0]

I have a friend that has that problem. he has a very wide stance and instead of a RW suit he wears a freefly suit. it helps him alot. also try to relax more. also have fun. blue skies
why jump when you can fly