Student equipment training

[Snowflake 0]

This is in response to a few comments made in another post.
"Do new skydivers care about safety?"
At first this statement annoyed me because I was taking it personal being a new skydiver myself. Then I thought about it and I started to wonder the same thing. I'll share a couple of observations with you.
1 On my second AFF jump I was doing a gear check(I really didn't know what problems I was looking for but I checked the rings, bridle pin and handles while waiting for the instructor). one of the packers looks up at me and says "A student doing a gear check I don't believe it".
2 I know of 2 people that finished AFF around the same time as me and they don't know how to pack (which is no major sin except how else do you get to know your gear).
I see a lot of new jumpers myself included without hookknives and worse yet would they know what to do with it if needed?(I include myself in this group, but mine should be in tommorow)
Now the one thing that I think links these things together is not enough equipment awareness during the student process. There is quit a bit of information to ingest and I think maybe (ohhh I hate to say this because while I can't see all of them I realize this would create problems for somebody) there should be some form mandatory equipment training. Lets say the cirriculem covers operation and maintaince of the Three ring release system. Physics of deployment and how they should affect main and reserve choice. Canopy operation and maintianance(I had my canopy for a few months before anyone told me to undo the twists in my brake lines before the last pack of the day). Container operation and mantainance.
I think if there was some form of book with all the above information and require the student to read a portion of the the information and pass a small verbal/practical test before each AFF jump or you could have the student do it at their leisure
and take a written/practical test before getting their A
This is just a thought. I do realize that it really is every jumpers responsability to seek out this information on their own, but since that doesn't happen in the real world maybe creating more awareness during their student jumps would help
Just a thought
JG

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

You should be shown these things as you progress through the levels I think. Skydiving isn't just about freefall - you should know your gear, know how to pack etc. I think these are all important things as you need to do it on a regular basis
boobies - the cause of, and solution to, all of lifes problems

[PhreeZone 20]

John... a lot of good ideas. I personally like BillVon's idea of doing a follow up class at the water training that covers a lot of this. At that point you know the jumper has a basic experience level and some back ground in jumping and gear. They have at least 50 landings and know how toggles REALLY work. They are probally looking or just acquired thier own gear and need basic info. I created a packing check list for flat packing that I give to anyone that I teach to flat pack. This way after a few instrusted and assisted pack jobs, if they have questions they have a basic checklist if they forget a step.
You might want to approach your local Training officer to see if they would be open to having a phamlet created to give to AFF grads that answers a few of the more basic questions along with a list of riggers the DZ likes and contact info for them. This way the jumper gets to make some of their own decisions, but you get to halp shape them.
If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will....

[hobbes4star 0]

i agree with you. while my instructor was a great skydiver with over 8000 dives when i was taken off of student status i didn't know a thing about packing, or equipment. lucky i took the it into my own hands to learn. thier should be a day of nothing but gear. it could save a lot of students headaches later on. or maby even save a life
why jump when you can fly

[GrumpySmurf 0]

Quote

I personally like BillVon's idea of doing a follow up class at the water training

Actually this sounds like a really good idea - hands on stuff covering new topics such as measuring lines to see if they are out of trim or not safe to jump, checking the canopy for excessive wear, how to get mud off your gear, how to swap out closing loops and tell if one needs shortening, how to swap out a main and do a line continuity check, how to tell if the kill line needs replacing...along with reviewing how to maintain the 3-ring release. Bascially all the stuff in the manual that no one appears to bother to read

[mattwhoo 0]

Well after reading this post I can say that all skydiving courses are not created equal. I have about 15 out of the 20 jumps done for the course I’m taking and we needed to learn all of that stuff. I think I was doing full gear checks with my instructor watching making sure I was getting everything by jump # 5 or 6. The first part of the course is probably your standard run of the mill AFF program but then after jump 8 it is a series of coached dives and solos. Most of the coached dives have all had some sort of review and usually some type of quiz on emergency procedures or equipment usually oral. Also learning to pack is a requirement they wont even sign off on your A license until they watch you pack with out help. I’m sure everyplace does it different. This way by far not the cheapest jump course I have looked at but it defiantly seems to be the most thorough.

[gale 0]

Well, assuming students don't buy their own equiptment, and most of us don't have the money right away to do so, we're not allowed to pack until we get our A license. At this point we can only pack our own gear, once we get our B license we can pack others.
I don't like this rule as it really puts off any talking about equiptment at all. I think they do it this way to make it as safe as possible for students, so they know who packs their chutes. The thing is, you might not get your A for 20 or even 30 jumps, do you really not want to know anything about your gear at 30 jumps? (Our licenses are a little difference here, you have to get your solo certificate before your A so it can take a while.)
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[indyz 1]

Canada must be different. Packing your own main without assistance is a requirement to get a USPA A license (one of the few blank spots on my proficiency card), and anybody can pack. In fact, most of the packers at my home DZ aren't even old enough to jump.
--
Brian

[drenaline 0]

Some people care and some don't, you can't force people to care, it's theyr lifes. Depending on the environment of the DZ the student starts to care more or stops to care.
The learning program has different steps or categories, each one includes theory and practice. The idea of this is not to give to much information at the same time to the student because that might confuse him, so you teach it little by little but still teach it all (correct me if wrong).

Quote

1 On my second AFF jump I was doing a gear check(I really didn't know what problems I was looking for but I checked the rings, bridle pin and handles while waiting for the instructor).

I made S/L but I think I can remember the manual.
That part is included in category C of the SIM (jump 3-4 in AFF, jump 6-7 S/L) but if you still wanted to know then its never wrong to ask, a student can always asks for assistance and understanding and a good instructor must explain it to you and answer all your questions, if not then change instructor.

Quote

2 I know of 2 people that finished AFF around the same time as me and they don't know how to pack (which is no major sin except how else do you get to know your gear).

To get your USPA A license the SIM says that you must learn how to pack your own 'chute (with assistance category F (jump 10-12AFF, jump 15-17 S/L), without assistance category G (jump 13-16 AFF, jump 18-21S/L); once you pack a parachute and have the understanding of how a pack job works then you can pass to category H. They must of done it if they graduated.
Hookknives: If you like CRW then its a must. If you get caught and hang out of the plane by a safety belt well I think you can try and cut the safety belt with the hook knife, its also use to cut S/L in case of an emergency.
If you like to swoop and use high performance canopies (elliptical) I would really recommend the classic "look red, look silver, pull red, pull silver", with those canopies and high wingload you will go down very fast, don't waste time cutting lines, the time that it will take you will be more or less the time that it will take your body to make a really big hole on the floor. (correct me if wrong, am an A license but I ask alot and read alot)
Yes there is equipment awareness, in the USPA course you get the knowledge once you get to category C, you will get a lot of theory about the equipment, in category E you should get an open parachute orientation (lines, bridel, label, risers, slider, etc.). Its recommended that a FAA rigger gives you these lessons but if not available, then your instructor should give you that session.

Yes there are verbal exams in each category. I really dunno if you have to do it before passing to another category of if you can do it whenneva you want, but what I do know is that you need to pass each one with 71% or more of correct answer to get the USPA A license.
The book that I use is the SIM (Skydiver's Instructional Manual) has the first license course and recommendation for other skydiving disciplines. If you took the course from another organization, you should get theyr instructional manual.
Again I repeat I am an A license Skydiver that ask alot of questions and read alot so I might be wrong on some of the issues. A good correction if am wrong would be good.
DISCLOSURE: This is not an advertise or a way to promote the USPA organization. I get no personal interest or economical by such organization.
"Life is full of danger, so why be afraid?"
drenaline

[billvon 2,990]

>I personally like BillVon's idea of doing a follow up class at the water training
I would add that anyone can do this - you don't need to be an I to give a half hour talk at a water training. Most I's won't mind at all if you 'tack on' a half hour of stuff. If people don't see you as a really experienced jumper you may get some arguments on some of what you say, but that can actually be a good thing - hearing two experienced jumpers arguing over PC-in-tow (for example) can really open the eyes of a newbie who had never even considered the question.
My objective when I do classes like that isn't to get them to do X, Y and Z, which are the things that I've decided are safe. It's more to make them realize there _is_ an X, Y and Z to go along with the ABC's they learned in the FJC.
-bill von

[gale 0]

I just wanted to mention that I was wrong. Sorry. I talked to someone and I guess the information I was given was wrong. We are allowed to learn to pack when we want but it's not typically covered until you get your A as you only need it for your B. (didn't have a PIM on me to check before.) My thoughts on the matter are the same though.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive