techniques for emergency

[rendezvous 0]

What are your opinions on the cutaway and reserve pull procedures for those new to the sport. Should they go along with
the one in which both hands are used to cutaway while looking at the reserver handle and then both hands on the reserve, or the one where one hand is on the cutaway and one on the reserve handle. I was reading in the book Skydiver's survival guide that the second method is not recommended unless you have 300 jumps or a cutaway.

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

Some schools still use the "two handed method", but most I have ever seen, and certainly the only way I teach, is the "one hand on each handle method". The only time I would ever use two hands is in the event of a hard cutaway or reserve pull. Properly peeling your handles before pulling them generally alleviates that problem.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[E150 0]

2nd method worked for me on my 81st jump. Whatever you were taugh and practice (muscle mem) should be good

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[Jimbo 0]

Isn't it likely that a student would be more prone to performing his emergency procedures out of sequence when using the one hand on each handle methed? I wonder if there's any data on this anywhere.
My $0.02 I guess.
-
Jim

[rendezvous 0]

that is what interests me too. Also I do realize that you should go with what you were taught but as a beginner since you aren't at a point where it's already etched into your mind is it more beneficial to use the second and start practicising it or stick to the two hands on one handle procedure.

[rgoper 0]

with a SOS this wouldn't be a discussion, but then of course, i've only seen 1 or 2 SOS systems, and personally wouldn't improvise one, but that's just me. my procedure is one hand for each handle, UNLESS i have a "hard cutaway" then, you've burned up valuable altitude, so i guess it's a trade off. a lot of folks think just because you have "hard housings" on your rig, a "hard cutaway" is next to impossible, think again, remember "murphy's law" it is ever present. i've got an MPEG where one jumper stayed with a spinner, for what i counted to be 9 seconds, then another 7 or 8 seconds before being under a reserve (no RSL) assess the situation Quickly! improvise emergency procedures, try once, try twice, then cha-chink!
Richard
"The World Needs A Hero"

[SkymonkeyONE 4]

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Isn't it likely that a student would be more prone to performing his emergency procedures out of sequence when using the one hand on each handle methed? I wonder if there's any data on this anywhere

Actually, that is why we do multiple hanging harness drills. I put every one of my students throught "the washing machine" as many times as it takes for them to get it right every time. I have never in my 15 years as an instructor had any one of my students cutaway out of sequence.
Chuck
My webpage HERE

[billvon 2,991]

>What are your opinions on the cutaway and reserve pull procedures for those new to the sport.
I teach two-hands-per-handle and recommend it to jumpers who do not have a good reason to do otherwise (like a tandem master, who must use one-hand-per-handle.) It works on easy cutaways and hard cutaways alike, and helps prevent out of sequence deployments.
The biggest problem with one-hand-per-handle happens during a hard cutaway. In this scenario, a small elliptical experiences a lineover, and the jumper puts one hand on his cutaway handle to pull it. He peels the velcro and tries to pull it, but the G-loading makes the cutaway handle too hard to pull with one hand. At this point one of two things can happen:
1. He proceeds with what he trained to do on the ground, and pulls the reserve. This is very bad.
2. He removes his hand from the reserve handle to help with the main cutaway, and succeeds at pulling the handle. He is now in freefall again, and will attempt to find his reserve handle after it shifted from the cutaway - a procedure he has never attempted before. He has never had reason to, since he has always assumed it would be in his hand when he pulled the cutaway handle. 1500 feet is a bad place to try to learn a new procedure.
-bill von

[jceman 1]

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He has never had reason to, since he has always assumed it would be in his hand when he pulled the cutaway handle. 1500 feet is a bad place to try to learn a new procedure.

Bill,
That is the reason my "triple check" is not just the standard dummy grab and pull of each handle; the first time I do the two hands on each, the second, I walk my right hand down from my riser covers to the cutaway handle, then walk the left down to my reserve rip cord, then I walk my right hand up my main lift web to the cutaway and finally walk the left hand up the main liftweb up to my reserve rip cord.
I feel this way I will be prepared to get to the handles whereever they may be. Several times I have had an AFF instructor tap me on the shoulder and say thanks for the demo for his student.

[RichM 0]

Billvon,
I am starting to learn to be an instructore in the UK. Here we do 1 hand on each handle. You argumrng is very persuavive. Are there disadvantages to the 2 hands techinique, all things usually being a compromise, etc?
Rich M

[NtheSeaOrSky 0]

I would just like to add a small note. I am BY FAR NOT the expert in this area, but please STICK with ONE!! As a student I was taught 1 hand per handle. 6 months later a different instructor decided to CHANGE my emergency procedures to 2 hands. Both have their merits and faults, but NOTHING (to date) has caused me more concern and angst than to suddenly try to "relearn" my procedures. Over those first 6 months I drilled those procedures far into my brain, and now before my next jump after a 5 week delay, I am "cramming" new info into my head. EICk!! To make me feel more secure, I have drilled many different scenarios since then ( single hands being pinned back, "blind" handle find/pulls, twisted up in the risers, etc) I still won't know until it happens, but I know I feel much much better than the morning I was told, "Well, thats OK for an experienced jumper, but here's what you need to do" GULP. Just something else to think about.

[billvon 2,991]

>Are there disadvantages to the 2 hands techinique, all things usually being a
>compromise, etc?
There are two - one minor, one pretty significant.
The first one is that it takes about a half a second to a second longer, under normal conditions, to pull the reserve handle. During a cutaway from a very low speed mal, you will fall 16 feet in one second, so that's not a big issue. One could imagine a scenario where it might make a difference - if you have a baglock, and you cutaway at 400 feet, that additional second will cost you 200 feet if you don't have an RSL or AAD. (Well, you wouldn't even still be in freefall if you had an AAD, but you get the idea.)
The second one is the lost handle problem. If you don't follow training, the harness can shift on you and make it harder to find the reserve handle. Worse yet, you may find one of the main canopy harness rings (feels sort of like a ripcord) and pull that one instead. If you already have it in your hand that is less likely to happen. This can be solved by staring at the reserve handle as you're pulling the cutaway handle, so no matter where it shifts to you will see it - which is how we train students.
The primary reason I teach two-hands-per-handle is it works under more conditions than one-hand-per-handle. Most students and new jumpers are pulling between 5000 and 3000 feet, so the additional speed of the one-hand-per-handle system is not as big an issue. The two-hands-per-handle technique we use works with easy cutaways, hard cutaways, high speed mals, and low speed mals, and is very hard to screw up. Given that many new jumpers go to ZP canopies and small integrity risers almost immediately after student status, a system that works for hard cutaways can be pretty important.
-bill von

[dove 0]

Jack,
Thank you so much for your post. I am embarrassed that I never thought of that( following the webbing of the harness)... but you can bet it will become a part of my procedures for every jump.
grateful dove

[gale 0]

I'm really new to the sport and so I have a question? What if you can't see the reserve handles? I was taught one hand per handle and this makes sense to me so I can know where the reserve handle is after I cutaway. I can't see either of them when I have a rig on though because of my breasts. I'm afraid that if I pull the cut away and then either the harness slips, or even I'm too scared I may not find the other handle if I don't have it in my hand, seeing as I can't watch it as I pull the cutaway handle. Now, I know I have an RSL and AAD on my rig, but those things aside, do my concerns warrent one handle per hand approach or not.
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[billvon 2,991]

> What if you can't see the reserve handles? I was taught one hand per handle
>and this makes sense to me so I can know where the reserve handle is after I
> cutaway.
Finding the handles is absolutely critical in _either_ scheme, no matter where they get to on your harness. It's almost a guarantee that, if you have a low speed mal, the handles will not be in the same place than they were before you got on the plane. In addition, USPA recommends that you not cut away from a total malfunction, so finding your reserve handle separately is a good skill to have anyway. (As a good drill, next time you're in freefall, do a few cutaway/reserve touches so you know where they are in freefall, if you haven't done so already.)
>I can't see either of them when I have a rig on though because of my breasts. I'm
> afraid that if I pull the cut away and then either the harness slips, or even I'm too
> scared I may not find the other handle if I don't have it in my hand, seeing as I
> can't watch it as I pull the cutaway handle.
You can find the reserve handle using the same method you use to find it with your current method. Most women I've trained don't have a problem seeing the reserve handle of our student rigs during standing training; when they're in the hanging harness the handle is even easier to locate. If you do have a problem seeing it, keep in mind that the final objective is to find it with your hand, not your eyes. You will always be able to see at least the main-canopy attachement ring on your right side. If you look at that, you will be assured you a) you're not grabbing it by mistake and b) the reserve handle is just below it.
That being said, if you've already trained for the one-hand-per-handle system, and it works for you, keep it. You're a lot better off knowing one system well, and history has shown that you will revert to previous training anyway if you try to change and you don't drill the new system to death. If that's the case, the only additional thing I would prepare for is how you will handle a hard cutaway, just in case you do need two hands to cut away someday (I've needed two hands 2 out of 6 times.)
-bill von

[gale 0]

OK. Thanks. I think I just need some more drills. I haven't done any touches in freefall (like I said, really new) so maybe next time. Oh, and maybe this is stupid, but why do you not cutaway from a total malfunction?
Gale
Life's not worth living if you can't feel alive

[billvon 2,991]

1. It usually doesn't do anything - your main will not depart since it's still in the container
2. It wastes time, and during a total you're covering 200 feet every second
3. If you have bad riser covers, the risers can release and get in the way of the reserve, since the main will not leave
Many schools do not cover this until graduation - at student opening altitudes, the loss of a few seconds is not a big deal, and student-gear riser covers are generally maintained well enough to prevent them being a problem. In any case, all the things we discuss here apply only to experienced jumpers, not students. Until graduation, the only person who can make decisions for a student is his or her instructor.
-bill von

[Beachbum 0]

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i've only seen 1 or 2 SOS systems

all of the student rigs at Waller are SOS ... that is one of the reasons the guy who got me started took me elsewhere to learn, even tho Waller is much closer to home! Now that I've been in the sport for a couple of years and have started to learn something about it ... I'm VERY grateful that he did that! I'm glad I didn't learn on a system that is different than what I now jump.
As long as you are happy with yourself ... who cares what the rest of the world thinks?

[RozeAY 0]

1. It usually doesn't do anything - your main will not depart since it's still in the container
_________________________________________________
So lets say you have a pilot chute in tow and don't cut it away before going to the reserve. Wouldn't it be possible for the force of the reserve opening (or even just the change in position when pulling the reserve handle) to dislodge the main d-bag and possibly allow the canopy to inflate?

[rgoper 0]

you will get mixed ideas on this one, my procedure for a pcit is very different than a lot of others, but if my first little trick dont work, i will cutaway from a pcit before deploying reserve for the very reason you described. i had a pcit in tow once, there not to be taken lightly, get different procedures from different divers, then decide for yourself.
Richard
"Don't Forget To Leave The "Fart Gap" In The Jump Door Guys!"

[billvon 2,991]

>So lets say you have a pilot chute in tow and don't cut it away before going to the
> reserve. Wouldn't it be possible for the force of the reserve opening . . . to
>dislodge the main d-bag and possibly allow the canopy to inflate?
Yes, quite possible. I recommend cutting away from a PC in tow, but not a total malfunction (total = nothing out.)
-bill von

[pilotdave 0]

I learned the one hand per handle method before my first jump, then the 2 handed method before my second jump (at a different DZ). I liked their reasoning for using the two hands per handle method so I stuck with it. It's clearly slower, so it's definitely not ideal. But it does prevent the possibility (sorta) of a student pulling the wrong handle if, for example, their right hand slipped off the cutaway pillow and they didnt realize. After trying cutaways in a hanging harness (never used a real hanging harness for AFF, just one you lean into), I realized just how long those cutaway cables are. I like having a free hand to clear them away and make sure both come all the way out. I haven't had a cutaway, so I dunno how well that method would actually work. The only thing that worries me at all is finding the reserve handle. With my Z1 on, I can barely see my handles even when i put my chin on my chest so I'd mostly be feeling for it. Then again, I use an RSL so theoretically by the time I even find the handle I'll have a reserve over my head.
Dave
http://www.skydivingmovies.com

[slotperfect 7]

My first set of emergency procedures was for round canopy gear (shot-and-a-half capewells and a chest-mount reserve). No, I am not a skydiving senior citizen . . . that's what the static line progression students used back in 1985 when I started skydiving.
We in the Army use the one hand for each handle method: "look, grab, look, grab, pull, discard, pull discard." The "discard" part is there so the jumper confirms that the cutaway handle was completely pulled. That's the method I learned 14 years ago, and the one I use today. I have 2560 jumps and have used that method successfully twice.
For civilian students, I train USPA's EP's which use the two hand method. I was told by a USPA AFF Course Director that these procedures were implemented for the same reason I mentioned above - to make sure the cutaway handle is completely pulled. USPA also teaches students to "strip" the cables before they throw the handle away. Another plus for this method is that it aids in getting the handle out when the jumper is fighting against the shear of the velcro, rather than peeling it, then pulling the handle. I am told they train "peel and pull" in UK. Not a bad idea.
PC in tow or container lock malfunctions: the Army teaches full cutaway procedures, seemingly to simplify the EPs for us nugs. Personally, I won't pull the cutaway handle for this type of mal, because of the possibility of the risers coming free and interfering with reserve deployment. That is the method USPA teaches as well.
SOS: I would not personally choose an SOS for myself, nor would I buy one to train students with. The SOS works fine, and I have a friend who swears by hers. There are many other situations when pulling the cutaway handle will get me out of a potentially bad situation (e.g. being dragged across a runway in unexpectedly high winds). An SOS would limit my ability to handle these.
Changing procedures: "muscle memory" is very important. That's why Chuck Blue puts his students through the wringer pulling so many handles. USPA, citing some study or other, teaches that it takes about 25 repetitions of a technique for it to be committed to memory. "Sensory awareness" is also important. Being 100% tuned into what you are engaged in, and being prepared for what might show up will save you altitude, time, and maybe your life. If you stay in the sport long enough, you may be required to change your procedures. When I go from a sport rig with a BOC to a military rig with a main ripcord to a tandem rig in the same day, I take a minute to check in with myself and get tuned in to that piece of equipment. That keeps me from reaching in the wrong place for the deployment handles.
The bottom line: skydiving is inherently dangerous. Period. So, we make it as safe as we can by jumping well-designed, well-maintained equipment, knowing our emergency procedures cold, and making sure we are safe. So, two-handed, one-handed, or SOS - just be really good at your EP's. Jump in the harness on safety day or on a weather hold and practice them all.
Respectfully,
SP