howardwhite 6 #1 October 17, 2007 Ever tried to explain the concept of ropes 'n rings to someone who's never seen it? This picture, from a 1976 Para-Flite ad, may help. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #2 October 17, 2007 Ever try to expalin how to PACK something with rings & ropes?! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cpoxon 0 #3 October 17, 2007 Quote This picture, from a 1976 Para-Flite ad, may help. Or not! Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #4 October 17, 2007 1976, Got my first save as a rigger when my friend, Mark Katich, went burning past me with his ropes hung up and a grocery bag size mess trailing waaay below the pilot chute. It is surprising just how long the ropes were and how far away from the top of the canopy the pilot chute(s) were on deployment. Getting rid of the ropes and rings eliminated at least a large lunch bag of volume from a pack job. A lot of those rings made it back into rigs as slider stops. I wonder if Booth was playing around with them and discovered the "Three Ring Circus". jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #5 October 17, 2007 OK, I'm a youngin' and know the term, but not the way they work. Care to enlighten us whipper snappers with a little description about the picture?(insert infant emoticon) 50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #6 October 17, 2007 We always called them "ropes and rings" and not "rings and ropes." Probably a coastal thing . . . Basically the way it worked is instead of a slider, because the slider wasn't invented yet, the canopy could only inflate as a fast as it could drag the already inflated pilot chute back down to its top surface. The "ropes" that surrounded the canopy were all part of the pilot chute bridle system. It was "reefing" in the best sense, when it worked right. And it should be mentioned some where doing terminal jumps completely "un-reefed" in those days with the idea if you could take it, the canopy would. They built bullet proof squares, and bullet proof jumpers, in those days. It took Greg Yarbenet, with a small square model of a Volplane, to invent the Slider. He pushed his wedding ring up the lines, before throwing it up in the air, and noticed the canopy would only inflate as fast as it could push the ring down the lines. Adding fabric to that idea only slowed things down more . . . and that became the full sail Slider . . . I've heard different stories over the years, but that's the way it was told to me, and I'm sticking to it! NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeffrey 1 #7 October 17, 2007 I remember them well. The harder you tracked when pulling, the softer the openings. And a very common procedure before packing was to rip-stop tape all the burn holes. Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #8 October 17, 2007 I don't think I've ever seen a statro star or any other earlier canopy made with more than on panel on a cell skin. Kind of cool. Did Paraflite do that routinely or was that a one off company canopy?I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krip 2 #9 October 17, 2007 QuoteI remember them well. The harder you tracked when pulling, the softer the openings. And a very common procedure before packing was to rip-stop tape all the burn holes. Jeff Anyone know when the half hitch was added to the rope & rings packing procedures. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #10 October 17, 2007 Quote Quote I remember them well. The harder you tracked when pulling, the softer the openings. And a very common procedure before packing was to rip-stop tape all the burn holes. Jeff If ya took your time and carefully packed it so all the rings were basically together, burns could be kept to a minimum....and if ya opened sub-terminal you could hear the rings banging around against each other. And Nick, you're right about the coastal thing...we always called 'em Rings & Ropes. I still have a Sport 260 with the 'long line', just don't have a container big enought to HOLD it! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #11 October 17, 2007 Quote We always called them "ropes and rings" and not "rings and ropes." Probably a coastal thing . . . Isn't that what I said? (I'm on the right coast.) Quote It took Greg Yarbenet, with a small square model of a Volplane, to invent the Slider. Yup. I had an early Yarbenet slider on my Volplane, replacing the hydraulic system. Instead of grommets, it had full-sized D-rings sliding on the lines. HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
murrays 0 #12 October 17, 2007 I only made one jump on a ropes and rings canopy (StratoCloud I think)and what I thought was funny was throwing out the pilot chute and then looking wa-a-a-a-y, w-a-a-a-a-y back behind you to see it at the end of the fully stretched out ropes.-- Murray "No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: the officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets." - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #13 October 17, 2007 Well, on another front I was just staring at the name of this part of the forum, "Skydiving History and Trivia." I think including the word "Trivia" trivializes what's to be learned here and minimizes the contributions to the sport some of us (not me yet, I'm too young ) have made. I'd write to HH about it but I'm on the shit list already and banned in a couple of topics. Airtwardo? I think it should be flat "Skydiving History." NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #14 October 17, 2007 Quote Well, on another front I was just staring at the name of this part of the forum, "Skydiving History and Trivia." I think including the word "Trivia" trivializes what's to be learned here and minimizes the contributions to the sport some of us (not me yet, I'm too young ) have made. I'd write to HH about it but I'm on the shit list already and banned in a couple of topics. Airtwardo? I think it should be flat "Skydiving History." NickD BASE 194 See that long Polish name, just below yours on the shit list...yup it's ME! As far as the History title goes, I'm with ya 100%! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #15 October 17, 2007 OK, for starters, here's the same picture with little arrows so you can see what is the Rope and what are the Rings. Where the Rope makes a turn, it's because it's going through a Ring. Someone else can explain how it all works.HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #16 October 17, 2007 Someone else can explain how it all works. Quote Smoke & Mirrors~! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
monkycndo 0 #17 October 17, 2007 Now I see the rings & ropes. I'm a left coaster. 50 donations so far. Give it a try. You know you want to spank it Jump an Infinity Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #18 October 18, 2007 Deep in the cobwebby recesses of my memory I see a canopy with the rings and ropes on the top surface. Am I lying to myself? jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mccurley 1 #19 October 18, 2007 I remember seeing both but can't remember the name of the canopy with the ropes on top. It may have been a paraplane sled??Watch my video Fat Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRWkEky8GoI Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,426 #20 October 18, 2007 Hi jon, You are correct. The original Ropes & Rings came out on the StatoCloud ( or maybe the SilverCloud, they kept changing the name of it ) and it was on the top surface. As I recall, it was rather more complicated than the bottom surface version. Actually, the StratoStar with the R & R system on the bottom skin worked virtually everytime, it was the R & R on the top of the canopy that 'sometimes' worked. And the on-top-system really would burn & tear the fabric. When it first came out it was 'real strange' to watch someone pull ( remember, this was the ripcord era still ), the pilot chute would almost go out of sight, time would go by and finally the canopy would come out of the bag. Definitely different. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beatnik 2 #21 October 18, 2007 The original Para-Plane had rings and ropes on the top skin when it came out, '70 I think. One year before the Cloud model came out. The Para-Sled had them on the top as well when it came out shortly after, '72. If I am wrong on the years, please correct me as they are coming off the top of my head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tidlof 0 #22 October 18, 2007 For those of you have never seen ropes and rings in action, count yourself lucky. And for those of us who have, don't forget the bloody reefing rings on the steering lines. See p. 31 post # 770 of this thread http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=270299;page=31;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=25; for why those things weren't too great either. For those not bothering to look at the post, here's the key sentence in that post: "On the SS, steel rings joined the single steering line to the 3 cascaded lines sewn to the tail. If I had time to look carefully, I would have noticed that the steel rings had knotted up the line twists and nothing was gonna unwind. But I didn’t, all I knew was nothing was changing from this scary picture." I'm pretty sure my 1975 SS mally hastened the the slider to the mass market.Ted D6691 SCR 3975 SCS 2242 NSCR 698 On the road to wrack and ruin………… but making damn good time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zing 2 #23 October 18, 2007 Seems to me that I recall hearing that the Strato-Star's rings and ropes system employed a reefing rope, maybe 1/4-inch nylon that was sixty feet long, end to end. I believe I still have a Strato-Star reefing rope in a pile of assorted ropes and cords, but it probably isn't 60 feet long anymore. I used the reefing ropes off my Strato-Star, Silver Cloud and Baby-Plane for a number of other uses after those canopies were converted to sliders. The first slider I had on my Baby-Plane was an X of type-13 webbing with a large D-ring on ecah end that would fit over the bundles of heat-shrink covering the cascades of the suspension lines. I don't recall any hard openings on the rings-and-ropes Strato-Star, but that Cloud and Baby-Plane delivered a few slammers on opening and some violent malfunctions. The #1 hardest opening I ever had, including reserve openings, was on Mk II ParaCommander in a long sleeve. My Bell helmet was down over my face, my googles were gone, I was seeing stars and one of my shoes was nearly off and hanging on my toes. I didn't notice that until I landed and my shoe came off. My brother, who was right next to me in freefall watching said the pilot chute launched and the canopy was open instantly. The next day, I had a fair approximation of a B-4 harness outlined in bruises on my body.Zing Lurks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
howardwhite 6 #24 October 18, 2007 Quote ...a reefing rope, maybe 1/4-inch nylon ... I think it was cotton clothesline, not nylon. Wouldn't nylon burn nylon? But I could be wrong.HW Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piper17 1 #25 October 18, 2007 Back in the days of rings & ropes Strato Stars, I jumped a Canadian made wedge-shaped main container that was a copy of the Jerry Bird system. Late one afternoon on a skydive, I pulled the ripcord, the pilot chute and reefing line started to go but before lifting the bag out of the main container, the reefing line wrapped around the long top flap of the main container, giving me a pilot chute (and many feet of reefing line) in tow. This was in the days of shot and 1/2s which I activated (at terminal - pilot chute doesn't slow one down very much) and finally had to fire my chest-mounted reserve (Pop-Top) despite the fact that the main hadn't (couldn't) leave. Thankfully, the reserve cleared all the crap above me and has an "uneventful" landing on my Navy Conical. Fun is...."A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites