DB Cooper

[dumstuntzz 0]

i am thinking that this canopy was the one in the chest pack,not the nb6(ckret did not reveal the serial numbers for that one)also,was the chest chute not a TRAINING or DUMMY chute as it has been called on these forums? a 24 ft twill canopy that was 25 years old would likely at the time of the hijacking have been used as a training device, and not actually been in service as a reserve.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Chest pack was a dummy training pack.

Sluggo, I have a high res of the map he's pointing to. If I spend 5-10 minutes, I can give you an actual coordinate. You have my email, I would LOVE to get a high res sent to me.

Jim,
That was a question I was wondering... would the "serial" numbers appear on the canopy or the pack? Or both?

And if they have a serial of the canopy, then they HAD to get it from Cossey, otherwise, they're doing like you said, opening it and repacking it (no way they did that).

[labrys 0]

Quote

And if they have a serial of the canopy, then they HAD to get it from Cossey, otherwise, they're doing like you said, opening it and repacking it (no way they did that).

How much time elapsed between the demand and the delivery? I'd guess that Cossey already knew the S/Ns, but what would have prevented them from opening and repacking the rigs?

Owned by Remi #?

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

I do not know how much time elapsed. I do know they were in a big hurry to get those to SeaTac. They were scrambling. No mention was ever made about them opening the chutes and repacking them. The dummy chute was seen as a hasty error by Ckret in his posts about the subject.

Sluggo,

in the picture you posted, his pen is pointing to Bald Mountain.
The line he appears to point to is line AB.
Line AB was the "most probable" drift line when Cooper jumped.

Point A is at N 45 54 49.31 W 122 36 18.46
Point B is at N 45 56 46.40 W 122 32 56.32

without seeing the video you took this from, my guess is that he's showing how the find traces this line north and east, not necessarily "here's where the chute was found"

The pen is approximately on Bald Mtn

[AnKaLi 0]

Quote

"How hard is it to spend half a day with some equipment and go through the piled dirt?"

The government is a funny creature. I was asking the same question when Inyo County was trying to get money together to go dig up Barkers Ranch area in Death Valley looking for bodies from the Manson gang era. After many cadaver dog hits you would think they could just run a backhoe down there and dig but NOOOO.... They said they had no money for that. Finally they dug and from what I understand they found graves.

So it does not surprise me that they are taking their sweet time diggin up this chute. And they could use a cadaver dog to help their cause if there is a hit there. Ya the government seems pretty darn stupid at times.

Its not really the government, its the archaeological method. You don't want to just start digging and mess up what could be in a ground, it's very methodical and tedious.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

That's an EXCELLENT POINT.

The only problem is, the dirt has already been disturbed from the tractor. The dirt is probably all mixed up now, so geologic layers wouldnt' be of much help.

I have sent word to Ckret that he should have access to post and that there are countless DZ members with information and questions about the chute.

I'm crossing my fingers that he'll open the email and come in when he gets a chance. I imagine his phone is ringing off the hook with this one.

[bigway 4]

He has been logging in.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[1969912 0]

Quote

Here is a screen capture from the FOX video showing Car pointing to where the chute was found.

That's pretty funny!
----

Long time no read.


So what do you think about this whole canopy thing?
----

Edited BIGTIME below this line

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Carr basically said on national TV that the chute was found on the most "probable line" (line AB).

I will add this, if that's true, then I would not, under any circumstances, completely rule out this chute without getting the container from the ground. It's just too coincidental.

The reason it's so coincidental is that someone would have to jump there and leave their chute. Why jump there and why leave the chute? Not outside the scope of reason, but would be an odd find none the less if this wasn't Cooper's chute.

[AnKaLi 0]

Quote

That's an EXCELLENT POINT.

The only problem is, the dirt has already been disturbed from the tractor. The dirt is probably all mixed up now, so geologic layers wouldnt' be of much help.

I have sent word to Ckret that he should have access to post and that there are countless DZ members with information and questions about the chute.

I'm crossing my fingers that he'll open the email and come in when he gets a chance. I imagine his phone is ringing off the hook with this one.

I was speaking more on a general point to the poster that I rwq'ed...I've worked on a few digs so I know how time consuming it can be.

[labrys 0]

Quote

I doubt the DZO would have any reason to keep S/N records for which mains were in which containers

What was the common practice at the time? I'm pretty sure my rigger records my main, reserve, h/c, and aad serial numbers on the report I get when he repacks for me. I can't find one to verify.

Owned by Remi #?

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Quote

If it is Cooper's canopy, and he was the one who cut it away from the container, then the container's long gone, IMHO.

No no... the kids/dad cut the chute. They could have, but did not, leave the chute intact. It was stuck in the dirt, so they cut it to free it. The rest of the container is in the ground. It's there. I'd volunteer to dig, but I'm thousands of miles away. I have a brother that could go help this weekend...

Ckret, you should organize a dig so that it's not just you with a shovel out there. Plus, the kids would be on Spring Break and could point you in the right direction. With others, the container could be retrieved.

This whole thing just goes to show you how big this case is in Clark County. It's one of the top 10 mysteries of the 20th century and it happened in little Clark County. It's in people's minds out there. Someone finds a parachute in any other area of the country and it's doubtful it makes it to the FBI... but here, it's the first thing people think of.

Finding a body/money and then just doing nothing is almost infathomable to me.... if that turns out to be a probable occurance, then everyone will know who withheld the information (owner of the property). But, without a body attached to the container, then that scenario will be far fetched.

If this turns out to be Cooper's chute, then we can say right now, it's not a no-pull. We can say that on two levels, the first is that the money can't get there by itself, and two (and more importantly) the chute was deployed, which is why they found it.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Sorry for all the posts... I'm like a little kid opening Christmas gifts.

I have pinpointed the approximate location of the Koin graphic I posted on #234.

The graphic points to approximately
N 45 56 15.00 W 122 32 42.35

That IS within the search zone. It's also smack dab in the center of the "most probable" landing point. The only thing I don't know is if the graphic is correct.

This would be unbelievably coincidental if it's not his chute.... let's get the conatiner and find out!

[mark 107]

Quote

If that number is the canopy's S/N, then it seems clear that the feds never recorded it. They would have if they could, and my guess is that they just didn't have the time. I doubt the DZO would have any reason to keep S/N records for which mains were in which containers (could be way wrong, though). If they knew the S/N's of the mains given to Cooper, a match would have taken a phone call at the most.

Yes, you would be way wrong.

Cooper didn't get any main parachutes. He got three reserve parachutes and a dummy parachute.

Each rigger who packs parachute keeps the serial number of the canopy at least, so no need to unpack anything to re-record the number.

Mark

[quade 4]

Three relevant images.

Caption for art.jpg.fbi.jpg;

Quote

FBI Special Agent Robbie Burroughs stands with the parachute found in North Clark County, Washington.

Caption for art.chute.jpg;

Quote

The agent checks a date stamped on the parachute to see if it could be linked to hijacker D.B. Cooper.

Caption for chute2.ap.jpg.date.jpg;

Quote

The serial number 30755 and Feb. 21, 1946 date istamped on the parachute could help solve the mystery.

I assume that last caption should read, ". . . is stamped . . . ".

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[1969912 0]

Quote

How much time elapsed between the demand and the delivery? I'd guess that Cossey already knew the S/Ns, but what would have prevented them from opening and repacking the rigs?

Can't remember where I read it (maybe the dead thread), but I got the impression that they were really scrambling to round up the gear. It was at night, and IIRC they located Mr. Cossey at home and he came to the DZ (Issaquah) to open it up. Can't remember how much time it takes, but packing those rounds stands out in my memory as taking a lot longer than packing current gear. WAG: ~1/2 hr. Probably get beat up for being way off, but thats what comes to mind.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[BGill 0]

Quote

Caption for chute2.ap.jpg.date.jpg;

Quote

The serial number 30755 and Feb. 21, 1946 date istamped on the parachute could help solve the mystery.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is a faded "1" at the end of that serial number, making it "307551".

[quade 4]

Looks like a "1" to me as well and I don't think it's all that faded.

I mean, come on, I didn't even have to use the top secret CSI evidence black light to see it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[bigway 4]

Quote

Carr basically said on national TV that the chute was found on the most "probable line" (line AB).

I will add this, if that's true, then I would not, under any circumstances, completely rule out this chute without getting the container from the ground. It's just too coincidental.

The reason it's so coincidental is that someone would have to jump there and leave their chute. Why jump there and why leave the chute? Not outside the scope of reason, but would be an odd find none the less if this wasn't Cooper's chute.

Anyone thought this could just be a hoax?

It is hard to believe that 2 kids out playing in the dirt found a canopy and then ran all the way home got a knife and cut all the lines.
Why did they not get a spade?
Why did they not tell the father who would have then come back with them and removed it properly?

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

First: The posts are coming in so fast we have a lot of overlap. But anyway, Safecrackerplf's point and my point are about as close as we can get. In the FOX video he said; "it was found right here" with no mention of the line.

Here's my planned post:

Here are some low-res maps of the area that (I think) car was pointing to in the FOX News Video. If anyone has a better way of determining the location, let me know and I will redo.

The location is:
Township T5N R2E
Meridian Willamette
State Washington

Coordinates:
N 45.937771; W 122.56321 (WGS84)
N 45.937967; W 122.56201 (NAD27)

If he (Carr) put the marker down on the map location (as opposed to pointing to it) then the location is about 0.5 miles SW of the marker.

I’m also uploading a Google Earth Waypoint so you cam open it in Google Earth and poke around.

I have not produced high-res maps yet, but if anyone wants them just let me know. The file; “ExpertGPS-Parachute-Find-Aerial 07-09-1991” is (of course) from 1991.

BTW: The USGS 7½ minute quad map is:
Ariel, WA
45122-H5-TF-024
1971
Minor Revision 1994
DMA 1475 I NE-Series V891

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Could be a hoax. If so, it's a hoax that took some time before it came into fruition.

The kids were playing around in a pile of dirt that was made when the property was scraped with a tractor to make way for a new road (or something to that effect). The dad evidently said he knew the tractor caught something but didn't know what it was. Then the kids were messing around and started yanking the chute out and pulled it all the way out of the mound. They then cut it and (apparently) phoned it into authorities (FBI).

I'd spend a little more than 45 minutes going through that dirt. I'd get some people to help (hint) and I'd get the container and then make a reasonable effort to make sure there's no attache case or even a body.

[bigway 4]

I hope this is for real. I am not usually a skeptic but Ckret has been trying to bring the DBcooper case to the main stream media for a while... It kind of seems like he has had it for two weeks and has ruled it out but he is playing it up to the media as maybe it will gather media attention and momentum. It does not make sense that he has not contacted any of the die hard fans (you guys) about this yet.
Also with the dates, maybe he ruled it out before brining it to light. Then again, on the flip side, he does look very happy.


On a side note, does anyone think when he was giving the interviews, in the back of his mind he was winking at all of us here on dropzone.com or rubbing our noses in it that he has a find? I bet he was thinking of all of us when he did that interview and then sat in front of his computer for a day when it went to air to see what we were all saying.


Come on CKRET you wanka, come and talk to us You know we are dying to hear what you have to say mate. You have hundreds of people here hanging on to every word of yours now as you have more than any of us do.

.Karnage Krew Gear Store
.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Great post Sluggo!

If the point you found is more accurate, then it's even a BETTER fit than the one I found.

I was just eyeballing the KOIN graphic (and KOIN has been wrong before when it comes to this case)...

The point you found is literally on line AB.

For those that do not know, line AB refers to the January 1972 map constructed by the FBI in conjunction with a NW Pilot who had extensive skydiving experience and expertise. The findings were that line AB was the most probable drift path of Cooper. Point A was no-pull. Point B was if he pulled high.

If Sluggo's parachute point is accurate, it's on the line which would imply (if this is the actual chute of course) that he pulled mid way (don't ask me to calculate the MSL on it) and that their original calculations of when/where he jumped were incredibly accurate.

I have added the original FBI map that shows line AB. This is a scan of the actual map Ckret is pointing to in that Fox 13 screen shot Sluggo posted.

[1969912 0]

Quote

No no... the kids/dad cut the chute. They could have, but did not, leave the chute intact. It was stuck in the dirt, so they cut it to free it. The rest of the container is in the ground.

Thanks.

Just figgered that out by actually paying attention while reading

----

Sorry, everyone, for being so dense. Trying to do too many things at once.

----

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

First, thank you much for joining the discussion. It's probably worth it to visit the thread every so often just to see what people are saying, and your opinions and insights are terrific, so keep posting.

I notice what you're saying, he seems very elated.

I would be cautiously optimistic if I were him. You're also right, it's ODD that he did not come here first to ask some simple questions.

As for what he may have been thinking?? Hmmm... "Oh s***, this is unbelievable! I'm about to be world famous... uh oh, wait a second, if this is it, then that means.... ah dammit. Cooper lived"

Okay okay, I'm stretching there...
But if I feel like a kid on Christmas, just imagine how HE FEELS!!