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Ckret 0
2) He can't be sure of what is in either rig because he never repacked.
4) Why would you destroy the good belly reserve and take the demo, you may need the reserve on the way down? If Cooper is methodical he would have thought, "let me take a look in this demo before I destroy something I may need." (can't have it both ways, he either planned it well all the way through or bumbled)
6) He knew Tacoma from the air and McChord with distances to Seattle locations. Air flight in 71 was not common for most. To be able to spots cities from the air that blend into one another points to repeated air travel. He most likely got in the military, flying over the area.
Was there some chit chat that we don't know about? I remember you quoting him that he said "McChord isn't that far from Tacoma. It should not take that long"
Were there additional statements in reference to travel times, specifically involving Seattle?
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It makes no sense to throw only one.
It makes sense if it made Cooper mad -.
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Cooper was in the military during the time frame of 1946 to 1951, give or take a few years. He was stationed out of McChord or Ft Lewis. He served on an air crew in some capacity and received cursory training in emergency exit (which is why he chose the military chute over the obvious choice, it was all he knew).
Your time frame is right - but maybe Cooper was NOT the service at that time - but he was in the area and exposed to the information he needed...such as the famed jumpers stationed at Pendleton.
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After leaving the military, he was employed in the airline industry but not in any fashion that would give him detailed knowledge but general knowledge of a planes. Most likely as a contractor for Boeing.
Maybe having a bother who was a consultant for Boeing for many yrs including the war and afterwards.
Having all of the Boeing schematics available to you would be helpful.
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He jumps and the pressure bump is felt by the crew, but not at 8:11 more around 8:15 to 8:20. The bag of money Cooper tied to him is instantly ripped from his waist as he tumbles. Cooper, not expecting the forces of the jump, desperately tries to pull the handle but he can't find it, panics and no pulls.
So the FBI cannot prove their story without changing the time line - HOW and WHY would the FBI do that? You are making a lot of statements - and changing facts - the jump time - there are too many documents over the yrs and the records of the similation to do that...IF the time was wrong...it would have been NOTED yrs ago. To move that time line that much - this screams cover-up to squash the public opinion and get this sequel over and out.
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The theory on the money and it's discovery by natural means in 1980 go here and I do believe it is the most solid.
This is exactly what I mean - to get rid of all of the speculation -the FBI has to change the time line to make it work. This smells of a WASH to get the Cooper incident out of the public eye because of all the time and money it has cost them.
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Now what?
Once we have that list, find all from 5'10 to 6'1 brown hair, brown eyes. Then a quick background, if they were alive after 11/71 they can be ruled out. If they disappeared after 1971 then we have a suspect.
It would be CHEAPER and FASTER to do the work on Weber that has been requested over and over.
mark 107
The reason the change is important is that the Pioneer sport system would have had rings on the front to accommodate the chest-type reserve. Cooper passed on the opportunity to use a two-parachute system with a steerable main, and instead chose to destroy the chest reserve and jump a single-parachute system.
Mark
One of the biggest question marks is the money bag.
We've heard all kinds of ideas about it... no top, zippered top, waterproof, water resistant, not air tight but wrapped really well, canvas, no way it was canvas... the list goes on and on.
Honestly, what is known about the money bag? I would like to do a float time test, but I need to know more about the bag (otherwise the experiment is pointless).
This was on my agenda for phone calls... but if you've learned more in the last month, your insight will serve us greatly.
I'm assuming you saw my correction on the dimensions... 9x12x17 instead of 9x12x12.
Orange1 0
QuoteI need to correct my previous posts about what parachutes Cooper had. I wrote that he had two back-type reserves, 1 chest-type reserve, and 1 dummy chest-type. Based on Ckret's posts, Cooper in fact had: 1 back-type reserve (the NB-6), 1 back-mounted sport main (the Pioneer), 1 chest-type reserve, and 1 dummy.
The reason the change is important is that the Pioneer sport system would have had rings on the front to accommodate the chest-type reserve. Cooper passed on the opportunity to use a two-parachute system with a steerable main, and instead chose to destroy the chest reserve and jump a single-parachute system.
Mark
I found Stratostar's musings pretty intriguing I must admit... but no matter how much you want to mislead the FBI (and I agree with ckret that they would have suspected jumpers no matter which rig he took) I really can't see anyone (with experience) in that situation choosing a single system over a dual one. In that sense, ckret's supposition of someone exposed to canopies but maybe not a jumper tallies - maybe? I also seem to recall someone earlier hypothesised that possibly someone who worked with dispatching paratroopers but didn't actually jump themselves (i can't remember what the term used was? loadmaster?) as a possibility.
Quote1) using logic, you take the best you have to survive the jump. If not why do it. No matter which chute you take the FBI is going to think you are a jumper.
Really, you think he was a jumper? I think the FBI assumed he was NOT a jumper, because no skydiver would take a training reserve with a big X on it or pass up a sport main and reserve combo, only a non jumping retard would, in jumpers eyes. If you don't die, you getaway or get busted and being dead might beat doing life.
Quote2) He can't be sure of what is in either rig because he never repacked.
True if it was me, I would have opened the pioneer to inspect it and repack it, can't trust the FBI to not try to kill me or my stu I might take with me out the door. However knowing I'm not taking the Stu, I would grab the sealed reserve and hope I was right, because 1. I may not have the time to repack the sport rig in order to get out at my drop zone of choice & 2. repacking a reserve is not as easy to do in between seat rows and with out the right tools (like a sport main would be), something a jumper would know as well.
Quote4) Why would you destroy the good belly reserve and take the demo, you may need the reserve on the way down? If Cooper is methodical he would have thought, "let me take a look in this demo before I destroy something I may need." (can't have it both ways, he either planned it well all the way through or bumbled)
Again it would show later in time that he knew parachutes to the FBI and that (if he is a sport jumper) is a very small world in 1971. Again if it was me, I would do everything I could to not look like I knew what I was doing to the FBI. Also if it was me, I have built a few "walk around rigs" for training and we cut out as much crap as we can and only stuff the pack to have some bulk, if I needed a lot of strong rope, I know I could find it in the good reserve and look like a retard to the FBI and jumpers who would be asked about my actions.
Quote6) He knew Tacoma from the air and McChord with distances to Seattle locations. Air flight in 71 was not common for most. To be able to spots cities from the air that blend into one another points to repeated air travel. He most likely got in the military, flying over the area.
Not hard to do for skydivers, I have very few night jumps over Richmond Indiana, but have no doubt I could find a blacked out DZ (with in a few miles, if not damn close to right on) from the air at night from land marks and city lights alone. So for that matter he could have a fair amount of stick time a cessna 150 or 172 and be able to spot the landmarks without flying around there as military person. Hell he could have grown up around there and flew with his dad as a kid and known the lighted land marks. I have no doubt I could return to my childhood home and be able to pick out land marks at night after all these years, such as radio & TV towers, there still there and we used to land on a non lighted grass strip and you had to know how to line up on the one tower to make the strip.
Just food for though and my H.O.'s. But I'm sure you have more detailsthat are not disclosed and I could be way wrong, or maybe not?
Thanks again for your post and good luck in your quest.
Do you think it would be possible for a typical person, lacking aviation or airplane experience in the area, to pick out major points along the I-5 corridor if they also knew those areas from the ground?
I could fly over Vegas right now and point out all the hotels from the air, even if I only studied a map of the strip.
Were the 9-11 hijackers experienced in flying over New York or DC? (no), but they knew it from looking at maps (and in that case, video game sims).
Therefore, would it be a foregone conclusion that Cooper had to have experience flying over McChord, Tacoma, or Seattle? Or would having a very good sense of direction and familiarity with landmarks be good enough?
This thread suddenly got interesting! Thank you!
Albert18 0
If so, then he apparently wasn’t planning on jumping with two usable chutes.
Were the two chest chutes the same size? Did
As Stratostar says, I think time was an issue so I think we have to be careful not to misinterpret his decisions.
I also think Stratostar has a very valid point about what knowledge he displayed. I don’t think the talent pool he came from is that large. The more he shows the more he narrows that talent pool.
Ckret 0
In regards to putting the money in the belly reserve, we don't know. Because he cut the canopy out of the container instead of just cutting line i believe he did want to put the money in the container. There was too much (another indicator he did not think this out, if he did he would have asked for 100's) so it would not fit. thats my guess.
I'm fairly sure that when they flew over it heading north, it was still light out.
I can't remember the exact twilight time, but I did post it before on the prior thread.
Also, here's a curious thought:
If someone is sitting there and says "hey, there's Tacoma"... would that sound like someone who flies over it frequently, or is there nothing to infer from the comment?
Ckret 0
stratostar, the point I was making is that no matter what Cooper did or did not do, the FBI would investigate and did investigate every drop zone in the US. We would do it whether we thought Cooper was a jumper or not just to rule out the most likely.
I understood your point Mr. Carr. My point was how would my actions look to real jumpers, like a fool or non jumper, only if your going to try to pull this off your putting it all on the line anyway so a one parachute jump is the least of the risk in doing it.
Like I said, thanks for taking the time to post here, best of luck on the case.
QuoteI would say no, not at night, you need to see it from the air at night in order to see what it looks like, there are points of ref. you can only see at night.
other than one night jump in toledo (quite a ways north), all of my flying in that area has been during the day. i have no doubt that i could pick out longview, kelso, kalama, woodland, vancouver, and the trojan cooling tower if it were still standing if i were to fly over there at night. given the weather that night though, the point might be moot. he may not have been able to see much of anything.
"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com
I have a copy. I tried to find the site I downloaded it from and was unable. There are two ways you can get it.
1. Send me a private e-mail to "w a l k e r t r a i n at h o t m a i l dot c o m" (you know what to do with this) and I will send it as an attachment (it is 1.02 Mbytes).
2. You can go to my Yahoo Discussion Group; “D B Cooper” research and download it from the “Files” section.
I have some other stuff there also (like high-res maps of the areas of interest). Frankly the Yahoo discussion groups are kind of “gimpy” but it gives me a place to put big files to share with other Cooper enthusiast.
Here’s how to join the D.B. Cooper Yahoo Discussion Group:
STEP ONE: Obtain a Yahoo ID if you don't have one. It's easiest to use the Yahoo Membership Wizard.
STEP TWO: Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/D_B_Cooper_Research/ and click "Join This Group", following the directions given.
STEP THREE: Have Fun!
Sluggo_Monster
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I found it!
Here is ther link to the transcript of 305's communications with Flt Ops, Ground Control, Center, etc.
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/thebigblog/library/dbcooper_transcripts.pdf
I reccomend that everyone read this thing. It is amazing how much it differs from some of the things we have been led to believe (facts?).
Sluggo_Monster
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1969912 0
I poked around on the FBI's Cooper FOIA page, and it looked like just a bunch of newspaper clippings. If that's the typical results of a FOIA request, then why bother?
"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG
It's nice to have you back too... I know you didn't go anywhere, but just hadn't posted in a long time.
I absolutely LOVE hearing skydivers debate the ins and outs of the jump.
They will do a simulated jump on the unsolved history show on Discovery tonight... it might provide some fodder for discussion (what assumptions they made, what was good, bad, etc).
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