DB Cooper

[377 22]

I think the FDR just records flight data. The CVR records voices.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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if you follow the Weber aspect of this see attached, if you could care less don't bother. I sent away for a copy of his master prints.

cool. thanks ckret.

[377 22]

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A lot of the people in the 75-85 group do not understand email. Google is a mystery.

Do you have statistics? My dad is in that age group and his computer use capabilities match mine. I have other examples.

Why would we care about this particular statistic anyhow? We only need one Cooper. Not 10,000.

No statistics at all. People had mentioned that he may be reading this site, or other sites, and following discussions of his exploits.

It is just as valid to assume that he may be sitting at home watching Wheel of Fortune and eating cheese-curls.

(I printed up size 14-font instructions on how to use the DVD player for the people on my dads floor. They love me.)

I think people who knew things like airspeed limits, flap settings, etc would be more likely to be Internet competent in old age. I know a lot of old pilots and they ALL are web surfers. I have represented defendants whose crime stories made the news. They were often more interested in the stories than they were in assisting in their own defense. It's just human nature. If Cooper is alive, he reads a lot about himself and most of the info is on the Internet.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

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I think people who knew things like airspeed limits, flap settings, etc would be more likely to be Internet competent in old age. I know a lot of old pilots and they ALL are web surfers. I have represented defendants whose crime stories made the news. They were often more interested in the stories than they were in assisting in their own defense. It's just human nature. If Cooper is alive, he reads a lot about himself and most of the info is on the Internet.

Good thoughts, 377. So you're thinking it's likely the hijack was the most interesting thing that happened in Cooper's life, if he lived..i.e. biggest rush? Or are you thinking guilt/nervousness?

[377 22]

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if you follow the Weber aspect of this see attached, if you could care less don't bother. I sent away for a copy of his master prints.

Ckret,

Nice of you to still do work on the Weber angle. A lesser person would have bailed out long ago.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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I think people who knew things like airspeed limits, flap settings, etc would be more likely to be Internet competent in old age. I know a lot of old pilots and they ALL are web surfers. I have represented defendants whose crime stories made the news. They were often more interested in the stories than they were in assisting in their own defense. It's just human nature. If Cooper is alive, he reads a lot about himself and most of the info is on the Internet.

Good thoughts, 377. So you're thinking it's likely the hijack was the most interesting thing that happened in Cooper's life, if he lived..i.e. biggest rush? Or are you thinking guilt/nervousness?

Snowman,

I doubt if Cooper ever did anything that beat this for excitement. Unlike most criminals, he became a folk hero. That "hero" thing probably did a lot to assuage guilt if he ever had any. Also, by keeping up on the case status through the Internet, he could see if he was in danger of being identified and take defensive action (move, disguise, ID change etc). It is mostly about vanity and self preservation.

If you were Cooper and alive today wouldn't you be reading this forum? I would.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Ckret 0]

Kinda like being able to attend your own funeral.

[snowmman 3]

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If you were Cooper and alive today wouldn't you be reading this forum? I would.
377

well, Honestly, if I was old man Cooper and reading this thread..I'd be thinking "Hell I can do it again!"

I remember when I was younger a shrink asked me once "Do you ever think about planning bank robberies" and I thought Damn, how'd he know. I replied "Doesn't everyone?"

I probably should have said "Doesn't everyone at DZ.com?"

:)

[377 22]

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Kinda like being able to attend your own funeral.

Indeed. An interesting way to look at it Ckret. I'll bet the one thing that really bugged Cooper is that he was a nationally known folk hero, but couldn't reap any personal benefits from it. That kind of notoriety can be used to attract women etc, but he had to stay in the shadows.

Lots of Cooper wannabes/pretenders popped up precisely because of the hero status. A nobody who held himself out as Cooper could feel like a somebody and be held in awe by those who would otherwise have ignored him. No risk either since you didn't actually do the crime.

I noticed that skydivers who were thought to possibly be Cooper in the early 70s never vehemently denied it. They just made a joke out of it and basked in the tiny bit of glory that remained as long as they were not ruled at as being Cooper.

It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero. Black Panther Eldridge Cleaver is another example. He was a rapist and a skyjacker but to many in the 60s he was a revolutionary hero. Maybe some sociologists or psychologists on this forum can shed some light on this phenomena.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

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I remember when I was younger a shrink asked me once "Do you ever think about planning bank robberies" and I thought Damn, how'd he know. I replied "Doesn't everyone?"
:)

Well, uhh, actually no. Maybe we could do a poll.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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[snowmman 3]

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I remember when I was younger a shrink asked me once "Do you ever think about planning bank robberies" and I thought Damn, how'd he know. I replied "Doesn't everyone?"
:)

Well, uhh, actually no. Maybe we could do a poll.

well, duh, then no wonder we can't figure out who Cooper is. We need to hire some consultants.

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[georger 247]

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"If Ckret is right and Cooper actually wanted to leave
right after liftoff at Seattle, then V23 is irrelevant."
++++

OK kids... this reminded me about the notion that Mr. Cooper intended to jump very soon after departure... and using common sense MAKES THE MOST SENSE. I am definitely of the opinion that this was his intent... and when that plan got messed up, his delayed bail out resulted in jumping into an unknown DZ...bummer!

It's been explored before probably, but were the known DZ's nearest the departure airport ever investigated... if there was such a drop zone near the airport I'd put money on the fact that our Mr. Cooper had jumped it before. I'm becoming less convinced that he planned to just pick a spot (especially given the low visibility) and jumped...

I think he wanted out of the USA to complete his escape. His original requests were specific: Mexico
(City?), do not refuel IN the USA, and if SEA was
his bailout point this places him close to the
Canadian border. He seemed to want out of the country or at least gives that impression.

If he had really wanted to go to Mexico he would have
hijacked a flight headed that way ? Instead he
hijacks a flight close to the Canadian border.

Failing SEA he waits for the next bailout commensurate
with going north into Canada. He waits for the lights of Vancouver-Portland and knows the Columbia offers a route of escape where people wont be looking. He bails near BTG, makes his way to the Columbia via hitchhiking, and then walks up the Columbia looking for a boat ride to some point north in Canada. On the way he loses some money which winds up at Tena Bar. Its one scenario.

[Ckret 0]

Wanted to make a note about the 1944 print card. I don't believe the signature on the card is Webers, he either refused to sign, which is common or they forgot to have him sign and the clerk signed it for Weber.

If we book someone today and they refuse to sign admin paper you put "refused" on the line." I dont what the procedure was in 1944, there is an x placed above both of Weber's signatures, maybe thats what they did then.

[georger 247]

Lets break it down this way, would we all agree that Cooper relayed to the crew he had advance knowledge of the flight operations of the 727. The crew answered this for us because they stated they believed from his demands and interactions he did.

REPLY: The issue is: how much was illusion brought
by a bomb, and how much was fact. The power of
illusion is strong when you're facing a bomb.


BTW, the profile I have made for Cooper when plugged into the DOT comes out with the following
occupations (sit down for this!): (a) circus performer,
(b) theatrical including theatrical acrobat, (c) cowboy.
This assumes gradeschool education.

When you raise the bar with higher education you get:
(d) some areas in engineering, (e) military, (f) law
enforcement, (g) pilot ..............

Cooper was raised 1920-1930s perhaps 18 yrs of age
in 1939 during the Depression. I think you have to
define Cooper's persepctive in terms of the era in which he was born and raised.

As an aside, the idiom "Get the plane on the road"
(if these were Cooper's words vs Scotts) derrives from "Get the show on the road" which comes out of the 1910-1930's era of traveling circuses and theatrical performers which spread throughout America. The
idiom may be midwestern in origin (Chicago area).

Theatrical performers and acrobats rely heavily on the power of illusion.

[snowmman 3]

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Wanted to make a note about the 1944 print card. I don't believe the signature on the card is Webers, he either refused to sign, which is common or they forgot to have him sign and the clerk signed it for Weber.

If we book someone today and they refuse to sign admin paper you put "refused" on the line." I dont what the procedure was in 1944, there is an x placed above both of Weber's signatures, maybe thats what they did then.

what the heck are you saying here? The signature looks different than the signature to the left..which it says is the official taking prints.

Are there any examples of Duane's signature somewhere?

Are you just guessing based on the X? Maybe the official marked an X to show Duane where to sign?

Maybe Jo can help out with a signature here...

[georger 247]

load master.

REPLY: Load Master was one of the military careers
tured up in my DOT search. It requires physical agility
and little education but unfortunately if a LM had
worked in a 727 he would know how to get the reardoor open on the spot and probably would be more decisive
and able to make decisions than Cooper was.

[georger 247]

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You know if Cooper were still alive he'd be reading this and other forums that feature him. The temptation would be too great.

I support the idea that Cooper would follow any internet discussion of exploits.

REPLY -

This implies vanity and public exposure. I think Cooper was a very private person and this was one
of the keys to his decision in hijacking a plane and
leaving no trace.

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[georger 247]

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He'd want to say that he wasn't nuts/suicidal/whatever (even if they are, many crazy people mistakenly think they are sane also).

This is an interesting theory happythoughts. Although it sounds along the lines of the 377/vanity theory...i.e. paperback book psychology?

Can you explain more. I'm wondering if there's a theory about Cooper we can extract. Are you saying he was concerned about how the world perceived him?

Otherwise it would be better to be perceived as nuts in case he was caught, right?

I didn't really follow your line of thought.

Just noting a variety of theories that I have seen posted. Source of the need for money has been described as bankruptcy, drug addiction, gambling. His demeanor state described as disturbed, angry, pleasant, or mentally ill.

If people were posting that I was mentally ill, then I'd want to logon with a fake id and clear up the motivations part.

REPLY: Thats you. Not Cooper.

You guys need to think about somebody raised in
America 1920-1930 with values from that era who
was molded by WWII, possibly Korea, who went
through many depressions, may have seen his folks
go broke and wither away, ................. you are thinking, pardon the phrase, from a 70's to 80s
Yuppie point of view. That is not even remotely DB Cooper.

Think: "I dont like people that boast".

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[snowmman 3]

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It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero

did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug?
I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber.

Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer.

Why thug?

[georger 247]

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I was wondering about anything we might have missed that could apply to the Cooper event.

REPLY: His dna and his social security number!

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[georger 247]

Right, now i'm off for 2 weeks... nothing to do with sluggo... look forward to seeing what will have transpired in my absence

and Im very close behind you. Got a date with a
Sashquatch and I dont have 37 years more to wallow.

[georger 247]

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It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero

did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug?
I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber.

Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer.

Why thug?

There is a dictionary on the internet.

[snowmman 3]

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Right, now i'm off for 2 weeks... nothing to do with sluggo... look forward to seeing what will have transpired in my absence

and Im very close behind you. Got a date with a
Sashquatch and I dont have 37 years more to wallow.

weird..my timing is I'm going to be gone middle of next week.

[Ckret 0]

I have several doc's signed by Weber, his signature on the prints are different. The most likely reason for the difference is what I posted.

[snowmman 3]

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It is puzzling how a thug-robber-hijacker like Cooper gets to be a folk hero

did I miss some posts? How did we get to Cooper=thug?
I agree we know he was a hijacker, and he took money that wasn't his, so yeah on robber.

Is the thuggery the threatened use of a fake bomb? I would call that more terrorism nowadays. Thuggery is a word I would use if he smacked someone with a ballpeen hammer.

Why thug?

There is a dictionary on the internet.

ok:

1. A cutthroat or ruffian; a hoodlum.
2. also Thug One of a band of professional assassins formerly active in northern India who worshiped Kali and offered their victims to her.

Definitely on 2..... it all makes sense to me now!