DB Cooper

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

The next lesson comes from my own family's story: If you do bury it, make sure it's in a watertight container...

That's a very funny story!

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Here's a few photos of the money (low res). I'm not sure if they have been posted elesewhere or not. I got them from Ckret a few weeks ago and just haven't had time to get them up on my web-site yet.

No captions were included.

Sluggo_Monster

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[snowmman 3]

Bunch of random comments
Bills: The 3 all black bills [Sluggo] are interesting.
One might guess they were the bills on the bottom of the 3 bundles. None of the tops we see in the photo taken on 2/12/80 are that black.

But supposedly the bill-picking process between FBI and Brian, after the 6 year court battle was "you pick one, then I pick one". Hard to believe FBI got stuck with the only 3 black bills? Unless they were being nice to Brian and picked bad ones.

I'm also wondering if maybe the FBI storage wasn't so good and discoloring happened afterwards? Note all the brown staining on the cardboard. It almost looks like "stuff" leached off the bills while in the folded cardboard. I wonder if maybe they were still damp or something?

trash thru dredges I've got some good info on trash going thru dredges. It happens. The cutter heads are designed to limit the size of material to avoid jamming the impeller in the pumps, which is the real constraint. Modern dredge pumps can be designed to pass rocks at 50% of the pipe diameter..Amazing. 25% more typical. Trash like plastic, wood, sticks, glass, cable get passed thru hydraulic dredges. It's a problem in some areas and they have to use additional equipment to remove trash from the dredge spoils before they distribute the dredge spoils.

Depending on the size of the hydraulic dredge used in '74, I've got some trash-thru-dredge photos that make me think a money bag could have gone thru and left some bundles okay.

But that doesn't really solve anything. Still have a "how money got in columbia problem"

Water Paths Burnt Bridge Creek looks like a more promising interior waterway path back in 1975, from around our new LZ area. Goes to Vancouver Lake. But no one believes in transport from Vancouver Lake to Tina Bar.

Sounds like no one believes any option works, yet people don't want to believe in human plant.

human plant I was looking at "choices" for a human plant. Assume you want sand, human traffic, ease of auto access.
Starting at Vancouver, Frenchman's Bar, then Tina's Bar seem like first choices. Frenchman's probably had more human traffic though?

Also, if human plant, I'm wondering if Vancouver resident more likely.

Cooper the driver Re the "20 minutes to McChord" from Seatac. It's just about exactly 25 miles to get just to the earliest point you can consider McChord. It's farther if you have to go inside. Speed limit was 75mph on I5 then (you take I5 the whole way). So maybe if you were going 80mph (typical?) it would be a 20 minute journey. (it's really more like 28 1/2 so maybe 85 mph?)

I was wondering if that meant Cooper drove a car or motorcycle on I5 there. Maybe he got some speeding tickets in the 5-10 years before 1971 in that area.

[snowmman 3]

Have this guy's name. trying to email him. odd.
at the very least it'd be interesting if his dad really did have to go back to work to check air speeds.

another question is how much did FBI interview Boeing employees looking for Cooper at the time? If this guy really had a suspicion, and he was in flight test you would think his suspect would be on the list from back then?

Could be a bogus post, but it kinda sounds ok. Will see.

Most people don't know about the questions around how slow it could fly that night.

quote follows:

MY dad worked at BOEING at the time.He just got home from work,and we where getting ready to leave for Yakima for thankgiving MY dad was in flight test.He and his work partner had to go back to work to get data to see how slow the plan could fly with the door down...
MY dad at one time thought DB-Cooper may have worked in his dept. there was guy who was strange and new a lot about the 727

[skyjack71 0]

Hello Snowmman:

Now I have some questions - the map you posted shows Caterpillar Island. How much can YOU DIG up about this Island .. Perhaps I already have the answers and want to see just how GOOD you are?

When did Caterpillar Island come into existence????????

What created Caterpillar Island??????

ATTENTION:
Ckret and the company currently examining the bills for evidence, I have a specific questions - is there any residue that constitutes the money having been a bucket of any kind of material existing in 1971???? Plastic, any plastic materials of derivatives thereof or metal or anything a bucket might have been constructed of in 1971 or prior to that date???? Feed, fertilizer and many things came in buckets prior to a 1971...plastic bags where not around to any extent.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Snowmman has two questions:
1) There were two trenches dug at Tena Bar. Why?
2) There were reports, including a Himmelsbach quote of additional fragments recovered during the dig. If so, how deep were they?

Snowmman have you ever tried to dig a trench to a river - it fills with water. In order to dig for the money they had to dig a parallel trench to keep the water out of their dig site.

The shore line was only about 25 feet in 1980 but it was much larger in 2001 when I went out there. This explains part of what you are asking...tides, snow melts, rains - .

The fragments - someone else will have to answer that or maybe I can use another phone call to ask the man you doubt I have spoke with 100's of times.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Hello Snowmman:

Now I have some questions - the map you posted shows Caterpillar Island. How much can YOU DIG up about this Island .. Perhaps I already have the answers and want to see just how GOOD you are?

When did Caterpillar Island come into existence????????

What created Caterpillar Island??????

That's an interesting question cause I was just looking at that.

I have a marine chart of the Columbia, from 1975.
It has two interesting things. Shilapoo Lake is shown as having water (in addition to flood lines). I thought it was drained and diked in the '20?s (not exactly sure) It has pumps to keep the water out, although there is supposedly surface water in the winter.

Additionally, it shows the Caterpillar Slough area as all filled in. (edit) on 1975 topos it's referred to as tidal flats. What's interesting is looking at the channel depths, comparing right next to Caterpillar Island (shallows?) and right next to Tina Bar (deeper?).

I had to reduce the resolution to get them small enough to post, but two pictures attached.

Here's the rub: even though the maps are 1975, I think the data they're based on may be as old as mid-50s. I can post the link to the whole chart. It's 15+mbytes. (it's from NOAA).

So I'm still looking wrt your questions. But these two maps are interesting.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Snowmman has two questions:
1) There were two trenches dug at Tena Bar. Why?
2) There were reports, including a Himmelsbach quote of additional fragments recovered during the dig. If so, how deep were they?

Snowmman have you ever tried to dig a trench to a river - it fills with water. In order to dig for the money they had to dig a parallel trench to keep the water out of their dig site.

Jo, I think you shouldn't guess without looking at the photos. The trenches were not parallel to the shore. They were perpendicular to the shore. See the pictures.

Hey Jo, I actually have some side questions for you:

-The 1980 DUI arrest, were you a passenger with Duane? How was that arrest resolved? conviction/fine/license suspension or ??

-The 1976 DUI. Was a gun found in the car? Did you know about this DUI in 1980?

I'm a little fuzzy on some of these facts, so it'd be good to correct me.

[skyjack71 0]

Georger wrote:

Quote

will find and post tonight - its a madhouse here.
The auction co has pieced together 35+ ?? new serial
numbers not previously counted and they are still
working. Without any question there was a LOT more
than the $5800 advertised by the media, at the T Bar. That is now fully established fact, just for starters.

I would expect there to be an even amount in the stacks - 1000's, and 2000's - It would be unusual for there to be 3000 stacks or 2500 stacks This money was set aside for incidents such as this hijacking having already been photo copied and counted in stacks. The records of the bank should show how much was in each stack and the numbers in those stacks .

I have heard 2 stories about the assembling of the money - wonder which one is true?

If it was pre-stacked and photo copied or was the story in Norjack about the delay just a story? I either read it there or someplace else. What is the right answer?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

New composite - new suspect
Take a look at the pic.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

Nice photos. Thanks. A few odd remarks about money
etc as per Snowmman and you.

(a) The "stickingtogetherness" of the money. Yes it
does matter. Why? What is stuck in between matters.
They were bundles., now blocks. Before they were blocks
their environment left traces in between bills and blocks
that would give a positive ID to their history. Nuff saide.

(b) Who would I like to talk to? Someone atTreasurey
or the conservator at the auctionhouse or someone at
Quantico versed in these matters. That would clear up
a multitude of questions, potentially.

(c) Cellulose decay. Yes cellulose decays rapidly in soil
or even when exposed to open air. And very rapidly
when left in water - which works against any washdown theory. Snowmman is correct there are many technical
studies on the net - but all proprietary. These studies
make me wonder if money exposed to water then to
wet land for a multitude of years would have survived
at all - with or without protection. The bundles of bills
themselves would offer protection but not submerged
in water and only on land. That inturpretation is consistent with everything I have found.

(d) Magnetism in currency. The Ink in currency contains elemental iron and other metals, most
meaureable in a magnetic field. Money can be traced with a magnetometer as it passes hand-to-hand. The magnetic properties of currency can be traced through the soil given appropriate conditions and assays. Large masses of money can be traced *very easily* by tracking their magnetic signatures through a dense medium.

The magnetic properties of the currency should be
similar to what they were when the money was given Cooper, unless acted upon by some extraneous magnetic force in the meantime.

The area of Tina Bar seems to be magnetically neutral
consisting mainly of sedimentary deposits with no
strong hematite, magnetite, etc content in the environment - which could reorient iron domains in the currency as a local effect over time. This may not be the case for geological areas further north and northwest from wehich the money is alleged to have come. A field strength test of the money could be done. (The ink in a common dollar bill will react to
any strong magnet. This is a basic experiment done
in grade school science classes).

Lastly, look at Sluggo's #20 bill photo posted today.
Notice what look like iron oxide stains. This is rather
unmistakable. This is the fist piece of this money I have ever seen which seems to show clearcut iron
rust staining. This could not have come from the
small amonts of iron in the ink of these bills. It looks
like iron rust from a piece of metal. But I bring it to your attention for further inquiry -

George

[georger 247]

A few more comments about magnetic effects:

I dont see the magnetic properties of currency as any
panacea for tracing the Cooper money. The money is
no longer in situ (at the site of discovery). The time
to have done a magnetic search was when the Tina Bar site was virgin and undisturbed. Any magnetic traces
of this money are long gone. These are small mico
effects at the atomic level which are easily changed
and eliminated by time in the environment.

While it is true that the magnetic properties in iron
can change due to environmental effects, those effects
represent forces well above any ordinary forces in
nature, and even if the magnetic poles of the Earth had changed between 1971 and 1980 that alone would
not secure a location of the money short of knowing it
was north or south of the equator.

Other forces which can change magnatism in iron
bearing objects are heat (extreme heat), high intensity
solar flares, proximity to dyanamos and strong electrical forces such as at dams or power stations -
presumably not ever involved in the Cooper case and
not involved at or anywhere near Tina Bar, so far as
I know. These forces donot include friction, cold above
absolute zero, wind, water, changes in air pressure,
and the like. And the magnetic properties of the money would diminish as the iron bearing ink eroded
and left the paper of the bills. (That iron bearing ink
would go into the sourroundings, however).

I considered the magnetic properties of money a long
time ago as a possible method for tracing the Cooper
money.

I also have considered the radioactive properties in
money. I see nothing there unless the atomic properties of the money could be compared to some specific site. But age is also a factor in such tests.

And just to cover all bases at this moment, I also
considered gross radioactive possibilities as for example if Flight #305 had flown very near a nuclear facility which left traces in the money, in Cooper (and
everyone else!), as a possible line to trace the path of
the money. Or say if Cooper himself had been an
employee at some facility where he was exposed to radiation and 'hot' to some extent, thus leaving traces
in the money and himself which could be tracked later.
I can only assume there was never any evidence to
suggest a trace of this kind would be necessary or productive. (for public safety or for forensic reasons).

But since I brought up (finally) the magnetic properties of currency tonight I thought perhaps I should add a
few words of explanation ...

George



be compared

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Georger,

I agree with most (or at least some) of what you said except:

Quote

The area of Tina Bar seems to be magnetically neutral

Were you talking about the soil? Or the magnosphere?

From 1971 Seattle Sectional:

The following warning boxes are shown on the chart:
Around Bridal Veil Falls:
Magnetic disturbances of as much as 8° exist at ground level between Bridal Veil and Troutdale.
Around St. Helens, Or (Near Woodland, WA, not Mt. St Helens):
Magnetic disturbances of as much as 6° exist at ground level Just south of St. Helens
Near Quincy, OR:
Magnetic disturbances of as much as 8° exist at ground level between Quincy and Longview.

The only isogonic lines shown on the 1971 chart show the magnetic deviation as 21° 30' East near Toutle and 21 Deg° 0' East near Oswego (Along the flight path.).

From USGS:
On 11/24/1971 USGS (NGDC) shows normal progression in Magnetic Declination of:
Toutle:
46° 17.939'N 122° 43.911'W
Declination = 20° 55' E changing by 0° 2' W/year
Oswego:
45° 25.147'N 122° 42.541'W
Declination = 20° 27' E changing by 0° 2' W/year

On 07/17/2008 USGS (NGDC) shows normal progression in Magnetic Declination of:
Toutle:
46° 17.939'N 122° 43.911'W
Declination = 16° 53' E changing by 0° 9' W/year
Oswego:
45° 25.147'N 122° 42.541'W
Declination = 16° 38' E changing by 0° 9' W/year

So, I would say that an area located along the Pacific Oceanic Plate/North American Continental Plate subduction zone was "very magnetically active".

And as for:

Quote

I also have considered the radioactive properties in
money. I see nothing there unless the atomic properties of the money could be compared to some specific site. But age is also a factor in such tests.

And just to cover all bases at this moment, I also
considered gross radioactive possibilities as for example if Flight #305 had flown very near a nuclear facility which left traces in the money, in Cooper (and
everyone else!), as a possible line to trace the path of
the money. Or say if Cooper himself had been an
employee at some facility where he was exposed to radiation and 'hot' to some extent, thus leaving traces
in the money and himself which could be tracked later.
I can only assume there was never any evidence to
suggest a trace of this kind would be necessary or productive. (for public safety or for forensic reasons).

In fact the plane did fly near the Trojan Nuclear Station (near St. Helens, OR/Longview, WA. Now decommissioned, but running in 1971). But what you are suggesting is virtually impossible given the “environmental levels” of stack discharge (Trojan had a gas decay system, where gases are sequestered and released after a long decay period, keeping environmental discharges very low.) The detection instruments just aren't that sensitive.

The same is true for Cooper if he worked at a commercial nuclear facility or defense facility. It would be possible if the had been given “Therapeutic Levels” of unsealed radio-nuclides (such as used in Radiation Oncology procedures) but those nuclides have very short half-lives and would only be present for a few hours (days at the most).

I agree with everything else in the post.

Sluggo_Monster

EDIT:
I just found out that Trojan was under construction in 1971(Construction of Trojan began on 1 February 1970. First criticality was achieved on 15 December 1975 and grid connection on 23 December 1975. Commercial operation began on 20 May 1976,), but what I said is true for most commercial nuclear plants built of the era.

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[snowmman 3]

In Texas Hold 'Em, the 3 cards that are first turned up are called "the flop".

It'd be interesting if those 3 black bills are black on both sides are not. And if the black ones are all the back side of the bills.

Although the lighting on the photos is bad, I believe the bill with the apparent rust stains is one of the 3 "black" bills under different (brighter) lighting. Is that true?

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

Quote

In Texas Hold 'Em, the 3 cards that are first turned up are called "the flop".

It'd be interesting if those 3 black bills are black on both sides are not. And if the black ones are all the back side of the bills.

Although the lighting on the photos is bad, I believe the bill with the apparent rust stains is one of the 3 "black" bills under different (brighter) lighting. Is that true?

snowmman,

I assume you are asking me… I’ll give my answer anyway.

One of the reasons, I have been derelict in posting the money photos on my site, is I wanted to put captions on them. My personal life has been busy, and I haven’t even asked Ckret if he could tell me about the photos yet. He’s busy and I’m busy and it sometimes takes weeks to have complete communication.

The e-mail that they were attached to, {I know… dangling participle (preposition without an object), but I’m of the Star-Trek school of grammar} had no accompanying text. I asked for clarification about whether or not he intended for me to put them on my site and he replied “Yes, post the bills on your blog and if you want, share them with the group.” This was the day he spent ramming his perfectly serviceable Gov’Ment Vehicle into a bank robber’s SUV, and there was no further communication about the photo’s.

{Think: Foghorn Leghorn talking to Henry Hawk}
Ckret: Can you hear me boy? Now, Listen to me boy… I’m not talking to ya jest to hear my jaws rattle… a listen to what I say boy… Tell me about the bills boy… the bills…. What can you say about the bills? Get your mind offa that chicken boy and talk to me about the bills!
{End: Foghorn Leghorn talking to Henry Hawk}

So maybe Ckret will see this and answer when he has time.

Sluggo_Monster

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[chuteless 1]

Hey!!!! Don't you guys ever get tired of talking about D.B.Cooper. Why don't you get off my back and leave me alone.

All the money isgone!!!!!!

[georger 247]

Quote

Georger,

I agree with most (or at least some) of what you said except:

Quote

The area of Tina Bar seems to be magnetically neutral

Were you talking about the soil? Or the magnosphere?

REPLY> Mainly in soil or in the geological environment
as opposed to the magnetosphere. However if there
are strong affects in the magnetosphere as from a
strong solar outburst, then domains can reorient.

We need to make a distinction here in types of magnetism. Permeability of the magnetism. Weak magnetic properties as in iron bearing ink where elemental Fe atoms are in lose bonds vs deep magnetism where large Fe arrays are
in strong bonds with other atoms as in a potsherd.

Weak magnetic associations are easily changed and
change depending on the environment. Strong magnetic bonds are fixed until some strong force changes the orientation. (This is why firing pottery at
a high temp will change magnetic orientations in the
clay to that of the surrounding kiln vs. the softer
less fixed magnatism found in paper money. Or, changing the domain orientation of a metal magnet
vs the weaker orientations on a VCR tape! ).

There may be magnetic properties in money I am
not aware of. A Treasury Dept physicist would know.
But I believe all magnatism in money is of a low
order of permeability. (again not like a potsherd)



From 1971 Seattle Sectional:

The following warning boxes are shown on the chart:
Around Bridal Veil Falls:
Magnetic disturbances of as much as 8° exist at ground level between Bridal Veil and Troutdale.
Around St. Helens, Or (Near Woodland, WA, not Mt. St Helens):
Magnetic disturbances of as much as 6° exist at ground level Just south of St. Helens
Near Quincy, OR:
Magnetic disturbances of as much as 8° exist at ground level between Quincy and Longview.

REPLY> Areas of strong magnetic variation would alter the domain orientation to the local displacement, over time. But the moment the money moves to a different location domain orientation changes again.




The only isogonic lines shown on the 1971 chart show the magnetic deviation as 21° 30' East near Toutle and 21 Deg° 0' East near Oswego (Along the flight path.).

From USGS:
On 11/24/1971 USGS (NGDC) shows normal progression in Magnetic Declination of:
Toutle:
46° 17.939'N 122° 43.911'W
Declination = 20° 55' E changing by 0° 2' W/year
Oswego:
45° 25.147'N 122° 42.541'W
Declination = 20° 27' E changing by 0° 2' W/year

On 07/17/2008 USGS (NGDC) shows normal progression in Magnetic Declination of:
Toutle:
46° 17.939'N 122° 43.911'W
Declination = 16° 53' E changing by 0° 9' W/year
Oswego:
45° 25.147'N 122° 42.541'W
Declination = 16° 38' E changing by 0° 9' W/year

So, I would say that an area located along the Pacific Oceanic Plate/North American Continental Plate subduction zone was "very magnetically active".

REPLY> Again, the issue of the Permeability of
the magnatism in currency is what defeats using
money as a magnetic record of its life history, so far
as I know.

Think of a dollar bill more like a compass needle than
as a fixed atomic arrangement which is going to show
a permanent (fixed) history.

I have thought about this quite a lot, Sluggo. If there
was something I knew about in the money of a magnetic nature that would tell its travel history, I
would have already said something about it.


In fact the plane did fly near the Trojan Nuclear Station (near St. Helens, OR/Longview, WA. Now decommissioned, but running in 1971). But what you are suggesting is virtually impossible given the “environmental levels” of stack discharge (Trojan had a gas decay system, where gases are sequestered and released after a long decay period, keeping environmental discharges very low.) The detection instruments just aren't that sensitive.

REPLY> I know this. This is why I have never brought
it up. As I said in my post, I know of nothing of a
radioactive nature which bears on this case ...

The same is true for Cooper if he worked at a commercial nuclear facility or defense facility. It would be possible if the had been given “Therapeutic Levels” of unsealed radio-nuclides (such as used in Radiation Oncology procedures) but those nuclides have very short half-lives and would only be present for a few hours (days at the most).

REPLY> Agreed unless he was hot for some other reason that no one was aware of. Or unless he had
been a worker and was dying for some reason and
blamed the company ... which goes to motivation.

I am not aware that anyone ever ran to #305 with a
geiger counter at Reno or examined Cooper's seat
or his personal effects, just as a matter of precaution.

He appeared to be in good physical health.


George

• Quote

[georger 247]

Just as a heads up.

One of my money people surfaced. Like everyone
else around here he is busy picking up the pieces
after our flooding so has no time for this. He suggested
calling Treasury where they are experts.

His email has been given to Ckret.

George.

[snowmman 3]

two things to help show I'm more insane than the magnetism folks.

I've researched 5 gallon plastic buckets. A lot. Very interesting technology. I wish I invented them. Apparently it was the Ropers (brothers?). Patent filed in '68, issued in '70. The Ropak Corporation started with this technology, and claims the founders (Ropers?) were commercially distributing the solution in '68. Unclear how widely.

The ribs on the top of the pail, and the sealing mechanism, were the solution that were great for the problem. The Ropers (3 bros?) outline the technical issues on the first page of their patent.

I'm totally impressed by how their solution is still in use, widely, 38 years later. See attachments.

The common availability in 1971 of now-standard 5-gallon plastic buckets, with their well-known resealable tight lid technology, is probably still a question mark.


Also, that post I made about the Boeing flight test engineer and his son seems to check out. I got some email back. His dad was evidently a guy who was peer-recognized(Googleable). Flight test engineer at Boeing. retired now. Apparently 76 years old. Interesting that apparently two guys were sent into Boeing that night to retrieve data on flying a 727 with the stairs down? So the data may have existed in the flight test group? Or did they do calcs that night? Not sure if the guy will email me more info, but his dad could be an interesting contact for Ckret.

(edit) A 1987 article about the Ropers and what spurred their invention

Roper family bucket brigade
Ropak's founding brothers find a fortune in plastic pails
May 24, 1987
Byline: Jonathan Lansner
The Orange County Register

The Roper family's plastic-pail business got off on the wrong surface. It was 20 years ago when William Roper and two of his brothers were trying to expand their East Los Angeles plastic molding shop into a new field -- industrial plastic containers with plastic tops. Previously, plastic pails were topped with metal covers, which limited their use.

To pass a federal sturdiness test, the buckets had to survive a fall from a four-foot loading dock.

[SafecrackingPLF 0]

Is the flop a poker reference?

Hello everyone. I'm only dropping in to see if there's anything new (only about 80 pages).

Hey, what's this composite sketch skyjack just posted? Is that thing legit or is it bogus? Damn thing looks like Weber.

And what's this talk about Burnt Bridge Creek and transport from Vancouver Lake to the Columbia River? This is feasible, it's called Lake River. Any other means is not possible. But, you have a 800 pound Gorilla if you want to talk about Vancouver Lake as being even remotely a contributor to the money being found. Since it's 800 pounds, I'll let you discuss it amongst yourselves.

Sluggo my friend, natural transport is impossible. Yet, human plant is also so unlikely that I have better odds of winning back to back powerball jackpots. The most likely answer is, a combination of the two. I'm convinced simply because it's the only way that adds up.

If you guys need further information, shall I proceed with my proposed $200k float test? If I can get this done in the next 12 days, then I'll do it, otherwise maybe someone else can do it.

Hey chuteless, good point, I think I'll fade into oblivion again.

Well, that will be all. Take care and godspeed to all of you.

[georger 247]

I can make the following observations -

I think there is no escaping testing the money, if
you are going to try and prove a route to Tina Bar.

Every major route to Tina Bar has the potential for uniqueness in it, with respect to the state of the money. We need to be looking at each route for properties which are unique to each route alone.

examples@

Washougal: offers the presence of basaltic silt residues with 86Sr/87Sr associations not found
elsewhere (if my reading is correct).

Tina Bar associations: sedimentary as opposed to
basaltic. micro fossil associations.

Willamette & Vancouver Lake associations: fine
non basaltic Willamette/Vancouvr Lake silt deposits...

Deposit by land or air with no water routes: lack of
basaltic or sedimentary or Willamette associations . .
Grease or other traits associated with civilisation
as opposed to nature.


Pending no evidence elsewhere which would give
perspectve on the money at Tina Bar,and without any
tests to nail down traits in the money itself, then ...

IF THE GLOVES DONT FIT YOU MUST AQUIT!


George

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Is the flop a poker reference?
Sluggo my friend, natural transport is impossible. Yet, human plant is also so unlikely that I have better odds of winning back to back powerball jackpots. The most likely answer is, a combination of the two. I'm convinced simply because it's the only way that adds up.

Hey, SCPLF. welcome back.
Are you proposing a dredging solution? I'm not sure of the order you suspect: human then natural, or natural then human. Or do you have two proposals?

[dyskiver 0]

Quote

Hey, what's this composite sketch skyjack just posted? Is that thing legit or is it bogus? Damn thing looks like Weber.

Well? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller???

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Quote

Hey, what's this composite sketch skyjack just posted? Is that thing legit or is it bogus? Damn thing looks like Weber.

Well? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller???

Isn't this just the sketch Jo had made? She previously told us she had a sketch. I don't know why she didn't label her post accurately. Maybe just trying to be funny?

Quote

Jo wrote a while back:
In fact they closely resemble a sketch that a forensic artist did for me using the 1971 polaroid and other pictures since I didn't have anything that would show Duane in his 40's - this man is known all over the USA - for reconstruction forensics - he wasn't cheap either.

I needed to know what Duane looked like in his 40's, so I paid the price.

[georger 247]

Can you give me the name of the hydrologist?

Photo below -

Thanks,
George