snowmman 3 #3626 July 17, 2008 QuoteCan you give me the name of the hydrologist? Photo below - Thanks, George Isn't that the geology professor? background from sluggo's site who knows if FBI ever consulted hydrologists? * Dr. Leonard Palmer of Portland State University concluded that the dredging operation in 1974 did not put the money onto the beach, because the bills were found above clay deposits put on the banks by the dredge. [AP Release 02-14-1980] * Leonard A. Palmer, emeritus associate professor of geology, died 31 December 2001 in Seattle following a 3.5-year bout with pancreatic cancer. [A Tribute to Leonard Palmer, PhD. From http://geology.pdx.edu/files/Emeriti/Palmer/index.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #3627 July 17, 2008 Hope your random walk brings you back! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #3628 July 17, 2008 QuoteQuoteCan you give me the name of the hydrologist? Photo below - Thanks, George Isn't that the geology professor? background from sluggo's site who knows if FBI ever consulted hydrologists? * Dr. Leonard Palmer of Portland State University concluded that the dredging operation in 1974 did not put the money onto the beach, because the bills were found above clay deposits put on the banks by the dredge. [AP Release 02-14-1980] * Leonard A. Palmer, emeritus associate professor of geology, died 31 December 2001 in Seattle following a 3.5-year bout with pancreatic cancer. [A Tribute to Leonard Palmer, PhD. From [url]http://geology.pdx.edu/files/Emeriti/Palmer/index REPLY> Thats him. Thanks. Ckret calls him hydrologist, you say Geologist. That's the man. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #3629 July 17, 2008 Im really surprised you didnt pick up on the rust on the bill - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #3630 July 17, 2008 QuoteIsn't this just the sketch Jo had made? That is what she has said before. QuoteMaybe just trying to be funny? No, more along the lines of a self serving prophecy. Basically people start believing their own lie.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3631 July 17, 2008 QuoteIm really surprised you didnt pick up on the rust on the bill - I did. I was waiting for Jo to go ballistic about bundles in metal cans..Was waiting for it so I could talk about how silly her Nigerian 419 story, I mean Duane waiting till a business trip in '79 to retrieve cached bills after 8 years and then send them down the Columbia in a paper bag whose glue and paper doesn't come apart until just the right moment and wait, then the bills are found yet a 2nd time, after luckily getting covered with some sand too! I'm actually more intrigued about people willing to believe Jo's float story, than the actual story. It also made me post the questions about the 3 black bills. And plastic 5 gallon buckets. Hey, it also made me think that the money was guaranteed to be damp when Cooper landed (rain). And that Cooper was probably wet and had muddy feet (landed in fields). If he PLF'ed he probably got mud on his clothes? bundles on the beach Random coin flipping thinking, says that 3 random bundles on the beach, likely wouldn't all land face up? The 2/12/80 photo seems to show us that the money was packaged with all face sides of the bills facing the same way. So if the black is only on the back sides of the bills, (edit) and maybe only 3?, and rust marks maybe also? that's interesting..it suggests human alignment to me...i.e. I'm guessing humans would stack bundles face up. You want proof? I've attached a photo from Cooper's cellar. (he was a busy guy over the years) Look at the way the bundles are oriented (face up) Also attached some other money bundle photos. It's interesting to think about how oxygen gets to the edges of bundled bills. (microbe action) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #3632 July 17, 2008 Hold on Snowmman - Caterpillar Island is ABOVE Tena's bar. You are trying to put Tena's bar too high. I do not believe I am wrong - I was there and know what I was told at the site. I also know what the maps show that I was provided with in WA.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #3633 July 17, 2008 1976 - I did not know Duane - I was told about the DUI. 1980 - arrest - YES I was with him and had asked him to let me drive. We were coming back from an evening of drinking and dining (note - I did and do little drinking) He was released the next morning and hired an attorney to get something done with the charge - I paid no attention - but that it got cleared up with no suspension of his drivers license and it cost something like $500 - in total. Remember there were parts of his life I didn't question.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3634 July 17, 2008 QuoteHold on Snowmman - Caterpillar Island is ABOVE Tena's bar. You are trying to put Tena's bar too high. I do not believe I am wrong - I was there and know what I was told at the site. I also know what the maps show that I was provided with in WA. Hi Jo. I am totally confused by your post. Some of CI is higher, Some isn't. Are you talking about elevation or lat/long? Why are we talking about Caterpillar Island anyhow? Are you talking about lat/long? Are you saying the money find was not North of Caterpillar Island? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #3635 July 17, 2008 I just know the maps I was provided show Caterpillar Island above Tena's bar. I cannot find the map right now. Remember that Tena's Bar is only slightly above Vancouver Lake. There is farm land around it or was in 2001. Lake S...whatever is higher than Lake Vancouver.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyjack71 0 #3636 July 18, 2008 Quote I was waiting for Jo to go ballistic about bundles in metal cans..Was waiting for it so I could talk about how silly her Nigerian 419 story, I mean Duane waiting till a business trip in '79 to retrieve cached bills after 8 years and then send them down the Columbia in a paper bag whose glue and paper doesn't come apart until just the right moment and wait, then the bills are found yet a 2nd time, after luckily getting covered with some sand too! I do not believe I have ever stated what was inside of the paper bag or how the money was packaged. Do you know?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ckret 0 #3637 July 18, 2008 QuoteIs the flop a poker reference? Hello everyone. I'm only dropping in to see if there's anything new (only about 80 pages). Hey, what's this composite sketch skyjack just posted? Is that thing legit or is it bogus? Damn thing looks like Weber. And what's this talk about Burnt Bridge Creek and transport from Vancouver Lake to the Columbia River? This is feasible, it's called Lake River. Any other means is not possible. But, you have a 800 pound Gorilla if you want to talk about Vancouver Lake as being even remotely a contributor to the money being found. Since it's 800 pounds, I'll let you discuss it amongst yourselves. Sluggo my friend, natural transport is impossible. Yet, human plant is also so unlikely that I have better odds of winning back to back powerball jackpots. The most likely answer is, a combination of the two. I'm convinced simply because it's the only way that adds up. If you guys need further information, shall I proceed with my proposed $200k float test? If I can get this done in the next 12 days, then I'll do it, otherwise maybe someone else can do it. Hey chuteless, good point, I think I'll fade into oblivion again. Well, that will be all. Take care and godspeed to all of you. Well well well!!! Safe, you old sum bitch, how the hell are you (thats my cowboy talkin). Glad your back, now float your $%% into the conversation. Sluggster, I say I say I say Boyyyy!!!!!! what do you want to know about the bills? They are samples from the found money, I am hoping the fine folks here can tell me about them. I know nothing!!! (think schultz) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 377 22 #3638 July 18, 2008 Hey Ckret, welcome back! I join you in soliciting SCPLF's continued participation. Those apparent rust stains on the bills are interesting. I feel dumb for missing them, and dumber for not being able to come up with a good explanation for their presence. The Boeing Flight Test Dept guy is worth tracking down, but with all the publicity that was blazing at the time of the hijack I'll bet Boeing people who suspected one of their own was Cooper would have been all over it back then. Now he is kind of folk hero, but I wonder if he was perceived more as a bad guy at the time of the crime? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3639 July 18, 2008 QuoteI am hoping the fine folks here can tell me about them. I know nothing!!! (think schultz) come on..what waste your breath B.S'ing us? We can't even smell the bills and we're supposed to be able to say anything intelligent? Your photos are crap and just of one side. We don't know if the bills are a random sample, or skewed distribution of the total population that was found (for instance the 3 black bills). We're looking at photos taken 27 years later, as opposed to photos taken when the Ingrams brought the bills in. Heck the photos I've posted are better than anything you've given up! The only as-found bundle photos are the ones I posted! We don't know how much the Ingrams rinsed/manipulated the bills after the find. They did separate 3 into 12, so there was handling. You're saying there's no written report on the money? Or are you saying there is and you'll never tell us what it said? Himmelsbach was quoted in some news articles afterwards implying they were going to have some people look at the money to make guesses about where it came from. But he very quickly talked about it coming from a tributary..almost within one day I think. Although even then it was mentioned that maybe someone put the money there. So there has to be a written report of some kind that resolved the theories created that week. Cooper told me I can't give details on the plant. So you've got to give something up to have something for us to jaw about. And start with describing why it looks like urine stains on that folder they're in. Did you do that after some Cooper beer blast? Or were the bills still damp when they were put in the folder? Or did something leach out? if so, what? (edit) The FBI had all the money for 6 years. Someone at the FBI separated the bundles into bills at some point. There's plenty of things Ckret could mention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dyslexic_jim 0 #3640 July 18, 2008 It all comes down to illusion. Mr. Cooper wanted parachutes, he jumped in unsurvivable conditions...no one can connect him to any jumper anywhere. Ever been in a 727, in that tail section? DB made the Flight Attendant go sit in the cockpit with the crew, no one, no one saw him jump. So, did a man with no jump experience at all really jump? A man who had executed a plan flawlessly, screw it all up at the end? I don't think so, but that's just me. What was it one of our politicians used as a "talking point?" A Rush To Judgment.... LOL The other question is, "Would the FBI ever admit they screwed up?" Like I said, "I don't think so. but that's just me.""Man could die eatin nothing but rabbit." - Patrick Foley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #3641 July 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteIm really surprised you didnt pick up on the rust on the bill - I did. I was waiting for Jo to go ballistic about bundles in metal cans..Was waiting for it so I could talk about how silly her Nigerian 419 story, I mean Duane waiting till a business trip .................................. REPLY> > ! Rust makes you wonder if a parchute harness or metal something was wrapped up with the money? My mind works that way - cant help it. SAFE's rermarks got me to thinking - turn this on its head. Why Tina Bar. Why not someplace else? There must be a million other places more logical or likely. Why Tina Bar? Why not Joe's Bar. Mary's woods. Jim's snake ranch? George Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3642 July 18, 2008 page 4 of the new transcripts released by Ckret thru Sluggo provide new detail on Tina's description of the bomb. Some detail to flesh out what we already know. There is also detail later on the landing at Reno, about the stairs not dropping till the plane was at a low speed, which explains how they landed without stair damage. Bomb description: Quoting: -Eight red sticks, about 6"x1" in left corner of briefcase, "look like big firecrackers." Two rows of sticks, four on top of four. -Wire attached to dynamite with red insulation. [Ed. Is this red tape? What is "red insulation?" (edit) OH..maybe the wire had red insulation?] - Battery "like flashlight battery, but about 6" high and as big around as my arm". [Ed. this seems to resolve our debate about the text in the other transcript ..lite vs flashlight battery?] - Red sticks are about the color "of my uniform" End of quote. This last description of the color caught my eye, cause Tosaw had this detail also about color matching the uniform. But he called it reddish brown. Tosaw may have got this detail from this report or an agent. In any case, I researched the uniforms used by stews on Northwest Airlines during that era. As always the info is on the web. http://www.uniformfreak.com/1northwest.html We've only seen b&w photos of the stews. It's quite amazing to see how bright red the uniforms were. Attached from the web site. Winter uniforms from 1970-1976. This bright red might be more indicative of flares, although the 6"x1" seems smaller than standard highway flares. 20 minutes (typical hwy?) would be about 12"x1"??? I'm guessing 5 or 10 minute flare? With railroads, they call the flares fusees. 5 minute fusees are standard for freight trains, 10 minute fusees for passenger trains. (there are RR reasons for 5 and 10 minute delays: train spacings). But 5 and 10 minute road flares are available too. I've been looking at dynamite wrappings. Brown and red-brown seem common, but red does seem to exist. There are small dynamite sticks. I think the real thing that says fake bomb is the probable dry cell, as we've noted before. 1.5V wouldn't be a good choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3643 July 18, 2008 two pictures discovered while browsing The first is real. From our artist friend Albert W. published in 1965. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dyslexic_jim 0 #3644 July 18, 2008 LOL - your attention to all of the wrong details is why, DB walks today..... The FBI made the same mistake. The Forest For The Trees. Good Night."Man could die eatin nothing but rabbit." - Patrick Foley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #3645 July 18, 2008 So, did a man with no jump experience at all really jump? A man who had executed a plan flawlessly, screw it all up at the end? REPLY> Are you saying he was Elvis? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #3646 July 18, 2008 All, Here are two color images of Tina Mucklow (in uniform) in 1972. The first (Interview With Mucklow-3.jpg) is just as it was delivered to me. I don’t know what “color correction” was (or was not) done to it. The second (Interview With Mucklow-3 CC.jpg) has been color corrected using Adobe PhotoShop’s “Auto Color Correct” function. From these photos, it appears the uniform was more of a brick-red or Chinese-red. Just for what it’s worth. If there are any photography experts out there, please step up to the mike. Sluggo_Monster BTW: The non-color corrected photo is how I remember the uniforms. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3647 July 18, 2008 yeah, hard to tell I guess, Sluggo. I did an attempt at adjusting for fade, using Corel software. Attached. Also attached some pics of example dynamite wrappings (inert..vendor sells for homeland security training) too bad Tina didn't note if there was any writing on the sticks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3648 July 18, 2008 http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/AES/Dynamite.shtml more dynamite pics. Two attached. (brown wrappers) Interesting they mention "common" size of 8"x1-1/4". So maybe it all does say "pretty unlikely" that Cooper had dynamite. if indeed Cooper had flares, it's interesting they were small ones. I wonder if maybe they were some other kind of flares. but like I said, could have been 5 or 10 minute flares. I was also wondering "why red wire?" I guess nothing can be gleaned from that, random? But it's not black, white or green. (other common). Too bad we don't know if Tina saw anything else in the briefcase. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3649 July 18, 2008 Quote Now he is kind of folk hero, but I wonder if he was perceived more as a bad guy at the time of the crime? 377 (edit) updated to mention of "folk hero" within a week. newspaper article from nov 29, 1971 was already mentioning "folk hero" status. I was thinking of Ckret's "the public will provide info" strategy here. It kind of makes no sense, right? There's no reason anyone would give up Cooper, unless he was dead and told someone. Even then there's little reason. Why would anyone give up info on a live Cooper? or a dead Cooper? Oakland Tribune (Newspaper) - November 29, 1971, Oakland, California Nov 29, 1971 ... many residents have come to regard "D. B. Cooper" as sort of a folk hero the clever modern Robin Hood who fleeced the "system" didn't hurt anyone and then ... Lima News (Newspaper) - January 7, 1972, Lima, Ohio Jan 7, 1972 U. S. Marshal Charles Robinson of Seattle disapproves of the image of Cooper as folk hero "Cooper is neither a hero of sorts nor a Robin Hood... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3650 July 18, 2008 I was just looking at sluggo's site, and realized one photo he has there, is a color photo of the found bundles, that must have been taken on 2/12/80 at FBI hq. it's only 2 bundles, but you can tell it matches the two bundles laid out in the foreground of the nymag/Corbis photo of 12 bundles I posted. The giveaway is the torn piece of jackson's face that's placed on top of the 2nd bundle. The texture of the table matches the bw photo. Apparently the FBI table was green? You can also tell that they are bundles, not individual bills. The picture is real bad, but it gives us some color information about the bundles just 2 days after the find. Also there is some edge detail that's good. Would be really nice if Ckret has color photos from 2/12/80 or if we could find better ones. see attached I attached the known 2/12/80 bw photo for reference. (edit) another giveaway for comparison..the single bill under the top bundle. You can see it in the bw photo also (look at the foreground two bundles) (edit) Sluggo's photo is from a 1996 cnn.com web article. don't know where they got the photo. They couldn't have taken it in 1996. It's captioned (CNN) http://www.cnn.com/US/9611/23/db.cooper/ the placard seems to have an evidence tag on it. That suggests the placard is in FBI hands, and is part of the evidence we've not been shown (even though everyone says we've seen everything) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 Next Page 146 of 2578 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 50 50 Go To Topic Listing
georger 247 #3629 July 17, 2008 Im really surprised you didnt pick up on the rust on the bill - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3630 July 17, 2008 QuoteIsn't this just the sketch Jo had made? That is what she has said before. QuoteMaybe just trying to be funny? No, more along the lines of a self serving prophecy. Basically people start believing their own lie.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3631 July 17, 2008 QuoteIm really surprised you didnt pick up on the rust on the bill - I did. I was waiting for Jo to go ballistic about bundles in metal cans..Was waiting for it so I could talk about how silly her Nigerian 419 story, I mean Duane waiting till a business trip in '79 to retrieve cached bills after 8 years and then send them down the Columbia in a paper bag whose glue and paper doesn't come apart until just the right moment and wait, then the bills are found yet a 2nd time, after luckily getting covered with some sand too! I'm actually more intrigued about people willing to believe Jo's float story, than the actual story. It also made me post the questions about the 3 black bills. And plastic 5 gallon buckets. Hey, it also made me think that the money was guaranteed to be damp when Cooper landed (rain). And that Cooper was probably wet and had muddy feet (landed in fields). If he PLF'ed he probably got mud on his clothes? bundles on the beach Random coin flipping thinking, says that 3 random bundles on the beach, likely wouldn't all land face up? The 2/12/80 photo seems to show us that the money was packaged with all face sides of the bills facing the same way. So if the black is only on the back sides of the bills, (edit) and maybe only 3?, and rust marks maybe also? that's interesting..it suggests human alignment to me...i.e. I'm guessing humans would stack bundles face up. You want proof? I've attached a photo from Cooper's cellar. (he was a busy guy over the years) Look at the way the bundles are oriented (face up) Also attached some other money bundle photos. It's interesting to think about how oxygen gets to the edges of bundled bills. (microbe action) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #3632 July 17, 2008 Hold on Snowmman - Caterpillar Island is ABOVE Tena's bar. You are trying to put Tena's bar too high. I do not believe I am wrong - I was there and know what I was told at the site. I also know what the maps show that I was provided with in WA.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #3633 July 17, 2008 1976 - I did not know Duane - I was told about the DUI. 1980 - arrest - YES I was with him and had asked him to let me drive. We were coming back from an evening of drinking and dining (note - I did and do little drinking) He was released the next morning and hired an attorney to get something done with the charge - I paid no attention - but that it got cleared up with no suspension of his drivers license and it cost something like $500 - in total. Remember there were parts of his life I didn't question.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3634 July 17, 2008 QuoteHold on Snowmman - Caterpillar Island is ABOVE Tena's bar. You are trying to put Tena's bar too high. I do not believe I am wrong - I was there and know what I was told at the site. I also know what the maps show that I was provided with in WA. Hi Jo. I am totally confused by your post. Some of CI is higher, Some isn't. Are you talking about elevation or lat/long? Why are we talking about Caterpillar Island anyhow? Are you talking about lat/long? Are you saying the money find was not North of Caterpillar Island? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #3635 July 17, 2008 I just know the maps I was provided show Caterpillar Island above Tena's bar. I cannot find the map right now. Remember that Tena's Bar is only slightly above Vancouver Lake. There is farm land around it or was in 2001. Lake S...whatever is higher than Lake Vancouver.Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyjack71 0 #3636 July 18, 2008 Quote I was waiting for Jo to go ballistic about bundles in metal cans..Was waiting for it so I could talk about how silly her Nigerian 419 story, I mean Duane waiting till a business trip in '79 to retrieve cached bills after 8 years and then send them down the Columbia in a paper bag whose glue and paper doesn't come apart until just the right moment and wait, then the bills are found yet a 2nd time, after luckily getting covered with some sand too! I do not believe I have ever stated what was inside of the paper bag or how the money was packaged. Do you know?Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ckret 0 #3637 July 18, 2008 QuoteIs the flop a poker reference? Hello everyone. I'm only dropping in to see if there's anything new (only about 80 pages). Hey, what's this composite sketch skyjack just posted? Is that thing legit or is it bogus? Damn thing looks like Weber. And what's this talk about Burnt Bridge Creek and transport from Vancouver Lake to the Columbia River? This is feasible, it's called Lake River. Any other means is not possible. But, you have a 800 pound Gorilla if you want to talk about Vancouver Lake as being even remotely a contributor to the money being found. Since it's 800 pounds, I'll let you discuss it amongst yourselves. Sluggo my friend, natural transport is impossible. Yet, human plant is also so unlikely that I have better odds of winning back to back powerball jackpots. The most likely answer is, a combination of the two. I'm convinced simply because it's the only way that adds up. If you guys need further information, shall I proceed with my proposed $200k float test? If I can get this done in the next 12 days, then I'll do it, otherwise maybe someone else can do it. Hey chuteless, good point, I think I'll fade into oblivion again. Well, that will be all. Take care and godspeed to all of you. Well well well!!! Safe, you old sum bitch, how the hell are you (thats my cowboy talkin). Glad your back, now float your $%% into the conversation. Sluggster, I say I say I say Boyyyy!!!!!! what do you want to know about the bills? They are samples from the found money, I am hoping the fine folks here can tell me about them. I know nothing!!! (think schultz) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 22 #3638 July 18, 2008 Hey Ckret, welcome back! I join you in soliciting SCPLF's continued participation. Those apparent rust stains on the bills are interesting. I feel dumb for missing them, and dumber for not being able to come up with a good explanation for their presence. The Boeing Flight Test Dept guy is worth tracking down, but with all the publicity that was blazing at the time of the hijack I'll bet Boeing people who suspected one of their own was Cooper would have been all over it back then. Now he is kind of folk hero, but I wonder if he was perceived more as a bad guy at the time of the crime? 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3639 July 18, 2008 QuoteI am hoping the fine folks here can tell me about them. I know nothing!!! (think schultz) come on..what waste your breath B.S'ing us? We can't even smell the bills and we're supposed to be able to say anything intelligent? Your photos are crap and just of one side. We don't know if the bills are a random sample, or skewed distribution of the total population that was found (for instance the 3 black bills). We're looking at photos taken 27 years later, as opposed to photos taken when the Ingrams brought the bills in. Heck the photos I've posted are better than anything you've given up! The only as-found bundle photos are the ones I posted! We don't know how much the Ingrams rinsed/manipulated the bills after the find. They did separate 3 into 12, so there was handling. You're saying there's no written report on the money? Or are you saying there is and you'll never tell us what it said? Himmelsbach was quoted in some news articles afterwards implying they were going to have some people look at the money to make guesses about where it came from. But he very quickly talked about it coming from a tributary..almost within one day I think. Although even then it was mentioned that maybe someone put the money there. So there has to be a written report of some kind that resolved the theories created that week. Cooper told me I can't give details on the plant. So you've got to give something up to have something for us to jaw about. And start with describing why it looks like urine stains on that folder they're in. Did you do that after some Cooper beer blast? Or were the bills still damp when they were put in the folder? Or did something leach out? if so, what? (edit) The FBI had all the money for 6 years. Someone at the FBI separated the bundles into bills at some point. There's plenty of things Ckret could mention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dyslexic_jim 0 #3640 July 18, 2008 It all comes down to illusion. Mr. Cooper wanted parachutes, he jumped in unsurvivable conditions...no one can connect him to any jumper anywhere. Ever been in a 727, in that tail section? DB made the Flight Attendant go sit in the cockpit with the crew, no one, no one saw him jump. So, did a man with no jump experience at all really jump? A man who had executed a plan flawlessly, screw it all up at the end? I don't think so, but that's just me. What was it one of our politicians used as a "talking point?" A Rush To Judgment.... LOL The other question is, "Would the FBI ever admit they screwed up?" Like I said, "I don't think so. but that's just me.""Man could die eatin nothing but rabbit." - Patrick Foley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #3641 July 18, 2008 QuoteQuoteIm really surprised you didnt pick up on the rust on the bill - I did. I was waiting for Jo to go ballistic about bundles in metal cans..Was waiting for it so I could talk about how silly her Nigerian 419 story, I mean Duane waiting till a business trip .................................. REPLY> > ! Rust makes you wonder if a parchute harness or metal something was wrapped up with the money? My mind works that way - cant help it. SAFE's rermarks got me to thinking - turn this on its head. Why Tina Bar. Why not someplace else? There must be a million other places more logical or likely. Why Tina Bar? Why not Joe's Bar. Mary's woods. Jim's snake ranch? George Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3642 July 18, 2008 page 4 of the new transcripts released by Ckret thru Sluggo provide new detail on Tina's description of the bomb. Some detail to flesh out what we already know. There is also detail later on the landing at Reno, about the stairs not dropping till the plane was at a low speed, which explains how they landed without stair damage. Bomb description: Quoting: -Eight red sticks, about 6"x1" in left corner of briefcase, "look like big firecrackers." Two rows of sticks, four on top of four. -Wire attached to dynamite with red insulation. [Ed. Is this red tape? What is "red insulation?" (edit) OH..maybe the wire had red insulation?] - Battery "like flashlight battery, but about 6" high and as big around as my arm". [Ed. this seems to resolve our debate about the text in the other transcript ..lite vs flashlight battery?] - Red sticks are about the color "of my uniform" End of quote. This last description of the color caught my eye, cause Tosaw had this detail also about color matching the uniform. But he called it reddish brown. Tosaw may have got this detail from this report or an agent. In any case, I researched the uniforms used by stews on Northwest Airlines during that era. As always the info is on the web. http://www.uniformfreak.com/1northwest.html We've only seen b&w photos of the stews. It's quite amazing to see how bright red the uniforms were. Attached from the web site. Winter uniforms from 1970-1976. This bright red might be more indicative of flares, although the 6"x1" seems smaller than standard highway flares. 20 minutes (typical hwy?) would be about 12"x1"??? I'm guessing 5 or 10 minute flare? With railroads, they call the flares fusees. 5 minute fusees are standard for freight trains, 10 minute fusees for passenger trains. (there are RR reasons for 5 and 10 minute delays: train spacings). But 5 and 10 minute road flares are available too. I've been looking at dynamite wrappings. Brown and red-brown seem common, but red does seem to exist. There are small dynamite sticks. I think the real thing that says fake bomb is the probable dry cell, as we've noted before. 1.5V wouldn't be a good choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3643 July 18, 2008 two pictures discovered while browsing The first is real. From our artist friend Albert W. published in 1965. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dyslexic_jim 0 #3644 July 18, 2008 LOL - your attention to all of the wrong details is why, DB walks today..... The FBI made the same mistake. The Forest For The Trees. Good Night."Man could die eatin nothing but rabbit." - Patrick Foley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites georger 247 #3645 July 18, 2008 So, did a man with no jump experience at all really jump? A man who had executed a plan flawlessly, screw it all up at the end? REPLY> Are you saying he was Elvis? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sluggo_Monster 0 #3646 July 18, 2008 All, Here are two color images of Tina Mucklow (in uniform) in 1972. The first (Interview With Mucklow-3.jpg) is just as it was delivered to me. I don’t know what “color correction” was (or was not) done to it. The second (Interview With Mucklow-3 CC.jpg) has been color corrected using Adobe PhotoShop’s “Auto Color Correct” function. From these photos, it appears the uniform was more of a brick-red or Chinese-red. Just for what it’s worth. If there are any photography experts out there, please step up to the mike. Sluggo_Monster BTW: The non-color corrected photo is how I remember the uniforms. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3647 July 18, 2008 yeah, hard to tell I guess, Sluggo. I did an attempt at adjusting for fade, using Corel software. Attached. Also attached some pics of example dynamite wrappings (inert..vendor sells for homeland security training) too bad Tina didn't note if there was any writing on the sticks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3648 July 18, 2008 http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/AES/Dynamite.shtml more dynamite pics. Two attached. (brown wrappers) Interesting they mention "common" size of 8"x1-1/4". So maybe it all does say "pretty unlikely" that Cooper had dynamite. if indeed Cooper had flares, it's interesting they were small ones. I wonder if maybe they were some other kind of flares. but like I said, could have been 5 or 10 minute flares. I was also wondering "why red wire?" I guess nothing can be gleaned from that, random? But it's not black, white or green. (other common). Too bad we don't know if Tina saw anything else in the briefcase. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3649 July 18, 2008 Quote Now he is kind of folk hero, but I wonder if he was perceived more as a bad guy at the time of the crime? 377 (edit) updated to mention of "folk hero" within a week. newspaper article from nov 29, 1971 was already mentioning "folk hero" status. I was thinking of Ckret's "the public will provide info" strategy here. It kind of makes no sense, right? There's no reason anyone would give up Cooper, unless he was dead and told someone. Even then there's little reason. Why would anyone give up info on a live Cooper? or a dead Cooper? Oakland Tribune (Newspaper) - November 29, 1971, Oakland, California Nov 29, 1971 ... many residents have come to regard "D. B. Cooper" as sort of a folk hero the clever modern Robin Hood who fleeced the "system" didn't hurt anyone and then ... Lima News (Newspaper) - January 7, 1972, Lima, Ohio Jan 7, 1972 U. S. Marshal Charles Robinson of Seattle disapproves of the image of Cooper as folk hero "Cooper is neither a hero of sorts nor a Robin Hood... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites snowmman 3 #3650 July 18, 2008 I was just looking at sluggo's site, and realized one photo he has there, is a color photo of the found bundles, that must have been taken on 2/12/80 at FBI hq. it's only 2 bundles, but you can tell it matches the two bundles laid out in the foreground of the nymag/Corbis photo of 12 bundles I posted. The giveaway is the torn piece of jackson's face that's placed on top of the 2nd bundle. The texture of the table matches the bw photo. Apparently the FBI table was green? You can also tell that they are bundles, not individual bills. The picture is real bad, but it gives us some color information about the bundles just 2 days after the find. Also there is some edge detail that's good. Would be really nice if Ckret has color photos from 2/12/80 or if we could find better ones. see attached I attached the known 2/12/80 bw photo for reference. (edit) another giveaway for comparison..the single bill under the top bundle. You can see it in the bw photo also (look at the foreground two bundles) (edit) Sluggo's photo is from a 1996 cnn.com web article. don't know where they got the photo. They couldn't have taken it in 1996. It's captioned (CNN) http://www.cnn.com/US/9611/23/db.cooper/ the placard seems to have an evidence tag on it. That suggests the placard is in FBI hands, and is part of the evidence we've not been shown (even though everyone says we've seen everything) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 Next Page 146 of 2578 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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snowmman 3 #3642 July 18, 2008 page 4 of the new transcripts released by Ckret thru Sluggo provide new detail on Tina's description of the bomb. Some detail to flesh out what we already know. There is also detail later on the landing at Reno, about the stairs not dropping till the plane was at a low speed, which explains how they landed without stair damage. Bomb description: Quoting: -Eight red sticks, about 6"x1" in left corner of briefcase, "look like big firecrackers." Two rows of sticks, four on top of four. -Wire attached to dynamite with red insulation. [Ed. Is this red tape? What is "red insulation?" (edit) OH..maybe the wire had red insulation?] - Battery "like flashlight battery, but about 6" high and as big around as my arm". [Ed. this seems to resolve our debate about the text in the other transcript ..lite vs flashlight battery?] - Red sticks are about the color "of my uniform" End of quote. This last description of the color caught my eye, cause Tosaw had this detail also about color matching the uniform. But he called it reddish brown. Tosaw may have got this detail from this report or an agent. In any case, I researched the uniforms used by stews on Northwest Airlines during that era. As always the info is on the web. http://www.uniformfreak.com/1northwest.html We've only seen b&w photos of the stews. It's quite amazing to see how bright red the uniforms were. Attached from the web site. Winter uniforms from 1970-1976. This bright red might be more indicative of flares, although the 6"x1" seems smaller than standard highway flares. 20 minutes (typical hwy?) would be about 12"x1"??? I'm guessing 5 or 10 minute flare? With railroads, they call the flares fusees. 5 minute fusees are standard for freight trains, 10 minute fusees for passenger trains. (there are RR reasons for 5 and 10 minute delays: train spacings). But 5 and 10 minute road flares are available too. I've been looking at dynamite wrappings. Brown and red-brown seem common, but red does seem to exist. There are small dynamite sticks. I think the real thing that says fake bomb is the probable dry cell, as we've noted before. 1.5V wouldn't be a good choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3643 July 18, 2008 two pictures discovered while browsing The first is real. From our artist friend Albert W. published in 1965. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dyslexic_jim 0 #3644 July 18, 2008 LOL - your attention to all of the wrong details is why, DB walks today..... The FBI made the same mistake. The Forest For The Trees. Good Night."Man could die eatin nothing but rabbit." - Patrick Foley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georger 247 #3645 July 18, 2008 So, did a man with no jump experience at all really jump? A man who had executed a plan flawlessly, screw it all up at the end? REPLY> Are you saying he was Elvis? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo_Monster 0 #3646 July 18, 2008 All, Here are two color images of Tina Mucklow (in uniform) in 1972. The first (Interview With Mucklow-3.jpg) is just as it was delivered to me. I don’t know what “color correction” was (or was not) done to it. The second (Interview With Mucklow-3 CC.jpg) has been color corrected using Adobe PhotoShop’s “Auto Color Correct” function. From these photos, it appears the uniform was more of a brick-red or Chinese-red. Just for what it’s worth. If there are any photography experts out there, please step up to the mike. Sluggo_Monster BTW: The non-color corrected photo is how I remember the uniforms. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3647 July 18, 2008 yeah, hard to tell I guess, Sluggo. I did an attempt at adjusting for fade, using Corel software. Attached. Also attached some pics of example dynamite wrappings (inert..vendor sells for homeland security training) too bad Tina didn't note if there was any writing on the sticks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3648 July 18, 2008 http://www.oregon.gov/OSP/AES/Dynamite.shtml more dynamite pics. Two attached. (brown wrappers) Interesting they mention "common" size of 8"x1-1/4". So maybe it all does say "pretty unlikely" that Cooper had dynamite. if indeed Cooper had flares, it's interesting they were small ones. I wonder if maybe they were some other kind of flares. but like I said, could have been 5 or 10 minute flares. I was also wondering "why red wire?" I guess nothing can be gleaned from that, random? But it's not black, white or green. (other common). Too bad we don't know if Tina saw anything else in the briefcase. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3649 July 18, 2008 Quote Now he is kind of folk hero, but I wonder if he was perceived more as a bad guy at the time of the crime? 377 (edit) updated to mention of "folk hero" within a week. newspaper article from nov 29, 1971 was already mentioning "folk hero" status. I was thinking of Ckret's "the public will provide info" strategy here. It kind of makes no sense, right? There's no reason anyone would give up Cooper, unless he was dead and told someone. Even then there's little reason. Why would anyone give up info on a live Cooper? or a dead Cooper? Oakland Tribune (Newspaper) - November 29, 1971, Oakland, California Nov 29, 1971 ... many residents have come to regard "D. B. Cooper" as sort of a folk hero the clever modern Robin Hood who fleeced the "system" didn't hurt anyone and then ... Lima News (Newspaper) - January 7, 1972, Lima, Ohio Jan 7, 1972 U. S. Marshal Charles Robinson of Seattle disapproves of the image of Cooper as folk hero "Cooper is neither a hero of sorts nor a Robin Hood... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowmman 3 #3650 July 18, 2008 I was just looking at sluggo's site, and realized one photo he has there, is a color photo of the found bundles, that must have been taken on 2/12/80 at FBI hq. it's only 2 bundles, but you can tell it matches the two bundles laid out in the foreground of the nymag/Corbis photo of 12 bundles I posted. The giveaway is the torn piece of jackson's face that's placed on top of the 2nd bundle. The texture of the table matches the bw photo. Apparently the FBI table was green? You can also tell that they are bundles, not individual bills. The picture is real bad, but it gives us some color information about the bundles just 2 days after the find. Also there is some edge detail that's good. Would be really nice if Ckret has color photos from 2/12/80 or if we could find better ones. see attached I attached the known 2/12/80 bw photo for reference. (edit) another giveaway for comparison..the single bill under the top bundle. You can see it in the bw photo also (look at the foreground two bundles) (edit) Sluggo's photo is from a 1996 cnn.com web article. don't know where they got the photo. They couldn't have taken it in 1996. It's captioned (CNN) http://www.cnn.com/US/9611/23/db.cooper/ the placard seems to have an evidence tag on it. That suggests the placard is in FBI hands, and is part of the evidence we've not been shown (even though everyone says we've seen everything) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
