Ckret 0
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snowmman 3
I know I'll get beat up for this.
But I was looking at the photo taking by the person who posted at the waymarking site, of Tena Bar. (1st attached)
It's obviously wet sand (looking N on Tena Bar). The sand is smooth and there is no loose sand on the surface.
The money find pictures though, are very different. There is an obviously wet area near the water line. But up by where the money was found, the sand is dry and loose on the surface. But moist and fine enough to maintain the trench under the surface, I suppose.
I'm confused by this description of the money being found where it was recently wet. It seems like it was found in dry sand. (at the surface). Since Brian "brushed" the sand away, that also confirms "dry".
The dig apparently started 2/13/80, 3 days after the actual find?...maybe went for more than one day (was the backhoe brought in on a 2nd day?)
But I was looking at the photo taking by the person who posted at the waymarking site, of Tena Bar. (1st attached)
It's obviously wet sand (looking N on Tena Bar). The sand is smooth and there is no loose sand on the surface.
The money find pictures though, are very different. There is an obviously wet area near the water line. But up by where the money was found, the sand is dry and loose on the surface. But moist and fine enough to maintain the trench under the surface, I suppose.
I'm confused by this description of the money being found where it was recently wet. It seems like it was found in dry sand. (at the surface). Since Brian "brushed" the sand away, that also confirms "dry".
The dig apparently started 2/13/80, 3 days after the actual find?...maybe went for more than one day (was the backhoe brought in on a 2nd day?)
ltdiver 3
QuoteI'm confused by this description of the money being found where it was recently wet.
We all believe that the 'wet' must have come from the river. However, perhaps he meant that it had recently rained.
ltdiver
Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon
snowmman 3
this is just addressing access to the Columbia from roads.
It's easy to think that all of the Columbia shoreline is equally easily accessible.
If you look at this map (I think from georger) that was focused on drainage areas, you can also see how roads don't typically parallel the Columbia on the Vancouver side.
it's close down by I5, then by Frenchman's, then by Tina Bar.
So if you didn't want to walk far for a plant, then there aren't a lot of good choices. (edit) Although to be fair, assuming a random float dispersal, it also addresses a "why found at Tena Bar" question...i.e. humans likely to only be at a couple of places?
p.s. The driving time from "town" to Tina Bar is about 8 minutes, according to Sadow's Marina (which incidently was sold in 1987, previously called Leeward Marina. Not sure when the Marina was first created there in Caterpillar Slough. The docks for the houseboats seem to be there in the 1975 topo, but I'm not sure. They called the Slough "tidal flats" in the 1975 topo.
Source: Columbian (Vancouver, WA)
15-NOV-06
Neighborhood focus: Lower River Road.
Byline: Justin Carinci
Nov. 15--For a decade, the Northwest Lower River Road area was the kind of area in which cows outnumbered people. That won't be the case much longer. While suburban growth continues elsewhere in the county, no new homes are springing up here. This stretch of road has only a house or two, with 18 more floating in a marina. Rather, the cows are packing their bags and leaving town. The Port of Vancouver is planning a wildlife restoration project on the land it owns north of the flushing channel between Vancouver Lake and the Columbia River, and the 300 or so Herefords that graze there don't count as wildlife.
Kadow's Marina, across from Caterpillar Island in the Columbia, will continue to hold most of the neighborhood's human population. The Kadow family took over the former Leeward Marina in 1987. "The summers are like living in a resort," Bev Kadow said from her recently completed home, which doubles as the marina office. "You can take your boat and just go tootle around on the river." The area has proved suitable for more than just river rats. The entire stretch of Northwest Lower River Road doubles as a wildlife viewing area, lined as it is with state and federal bird habitat. Shorebirds mingle with herons and egrets. Canada geese fill entire fields. And kestrels, red-tailed hawks and harriers patrol from the air. And then the road just ends. Other than hunters and dump truck drivers hauling sand and gravel, not many people use the road, leaving the area remarkably private.
"It's wonderful," Kadow said. "We're eight minutes from town, but we're out in the country."
It's easy to think that all of the Columbia shoreline is equally easily accessible.
If you look at this map (I think from georger) that was focused on drainage areas, you can also see how roads don't typically parallel the Columbia on the Vancouver side.
it's close down by I5, then by Frenchman's, then by Tina Bar.
So if you didn't want to walk far for a plant, then there aren't a lot of good choices. (edit) Although to be fair, assuming a random float dispersal, it also addresses a "why found at Tena Bar" question...i.e. humans likely to only be at a couple of places?
p.s. The driving time from "town" to Tina Bar is about 8 minutes, according to Sadow's Marina (which incidently was sold in 1987, previously called Leeward Marina. Not sure when the Marina was first created there in Caterpillar Slough. The docks for the houseboats seem to be there in the 1975 topo, but I'm not sure. They called the Slough "tidal flats" in the 1975 topo.
Source: Columbian (Vancouver, WA)
15-NOV-06
Neighborhood focus: Lower River Road.
Byline: Justin Carinci
Nov. 15--For a decade, the Northwest Lower River Road area was the kind of area in which cows outnumbered people. That won't be the case much longer. While suburban growth continues elsewhere in the county, no new homes are springing up here. This stretch of road has only a house or two, with 18 more floating in a marina. Rather, the cows are packing their bags and leaving town. The Port of Vancouver is planning a wildlife restoration project on the land it owns north of the flushing channel between Vancouver Lake and the Columbia River, and the 300 or so Herefords that graze there don't count as wildlife.
Kadow's Marina, across from Caterpillar Island in the Columbia, will continue to hold most of the neighborhood's human population. The Kadow family took over the former Leeward Marina in 1987. "The summers are like living in a resort," Bev Kadow said from her recently completed home, which doubles as the marina office. "You can take your boat and just go tootle around on the river." The area has proved suitable for more than just river rats. The entire stretch of Northwest Lower River Road doubles as a wildlife viewing area, lined as it is with state and federal bird habitat. Shorebirds mingle with herons and egrets. Canada geese fill entire fields. And kestrels, red-tailed hawks and harriers patrol from the air. And then the road just ends. Other than hunters and dump truck drivers hauling sand and gravel, not many people use the road, leaving the area remarkably private.
"It's wonderful," Kadow said. "We're eight minutes from town, but we're out in the country."
georger 247
Quotewe know the dredging occurred and the material deposited on Tina's/Tena's Bar because we interviewed the project manager.
REPLY - QUESTIONS>>>
_Was there an inventory of things found in the T_Bar
excavation? May we see that inventory?
_Were any bag fibres or cloth pieces noted in the
excavation at T-Bar ?
Georger
snowmman 3
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/207137_spill08.html
The Hayden Island anchorage is S of Mathews Point. Hayden Island extends to I5 crossing of the columbia
(topo attached)
Greek shipping firm fined $12,000 for oil spill
Saturday, January 8, 2005
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER NEWS SERVICES
OLYMPIA -- The state Department of Ecology has fined a Greek shipping company $12,000, saying the crew of one of its tankers made mistakes that led to an oil spill in the Columbia River.
The agency estimates that 519 gallons of oil spilled from the Rosa Tomasos on Aug. 30, 2003, when a fuel tank overflowed onto the deck and over the side of the vessel as it was being refueled at the Hayden Island Anchorage west of Vancouver, Wash.
Department of Ecology investigators said the crew did not slow down the transfer of oil after the tank was 80 percent full, and they alleged the chief engineer ignored an automated monitoring system that signaled the tank was getting full.
"The crew members responsible for monitoring the fuel transfer were not keeping an adequate watch," Mike Lynch, a state investigator, said in a statement released Thursday.
Some of the oil washed up on beaches near Frenchman's Bar and Caterpillar Island. There were no reports of harm to wildlife.
The ship's vessel master notified the U.S. Coast Guard and hired a private contractor to handle the bulk of the cleanup, Ecology spokeswoman Mary-Ellen Voss said.
The company, based in Piraeus, Greece, has 30 days to appeal the fine.
The Hayden Island anchorage is S of Mathews Point. Hayden Island extends to I5 crossing of the columbia
(topo attached)
Greek shipping firm fined $12,000 for oil spill
Saturday, January 8, 2005
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER NEWS SERVICES
OLYMPIA -- The state Department of Ecology has fined a Greek shipping company $12,000, saying the crew of one of its tankers made mistakes that led to an oil spill in the Columbia River.
The agency estimates that 519 gallons of oil spilled from the Rosa Tomasos on Aug. 30, 2003, when a fuel tank overflowed onto the deck and over the side of the vessel as it was being refueled at the Hayden Island Anchorage west of Vancouver, Wash.
Department of Ecology investigators said the crew did not slow down the transfer of oil after the tank was 80 percent full, and they alleged the chief engineer ignored an automated monitoring system that signaled the tank was getting full.
"The crew members responsible for monitoring the fuel transfer were not keeping an adequate watch," Mike Lynch, a state investigator, said in a statement released Thursday.
Some of the oil washed up on beaches near Frenchman's Bar and Caterpillar Island. There were no reports of harm to wildlife.
The ship's vessel master notified the U.S. Coast Guard and hired a private contractor to handle the bulk of the cleanup, Ecology spokeswoman Mary-Ellen Voss said.
The company, based in Piraeus, Greece, has 30 days to appeal the fine.
georger 247
QuoteI know I'll get beat up for this.
But I was looking at the photo taking by the person who posted at the waymarking site, of Tena Bar. (1st attached)
It's obviously wet sand (looking N on Tena Bar). The sand is smooth and there is no loose sand on the surface.
The money find pictures though, are very different. There is an obviously wet area near the water line. But up by where the money was found, the sand is dry and loose on the surface. But moist and fine enough to maintain the trench under the surface, I suppose.
I'm confused by this description of the money being found where it was recently wet. It seems like it was found in dry sand. (at the surface). Since Brian "brushed" the sand away, that also confirms "dry".
The dig apparently started 2/13/80, 3 days after the actual find?...maybe went for more than one day (was the backhoe brought in on a 2nd day?)
REPLY> I have also wondered about this because Brian's photo shows him sitting on a hill - downslope.
I think we decided maybe the Brian photo was staged?
Not where he found the money?
The recently wet was from snow melt, as I recall this.
G.
georger 247
I dont see anything in the Brian photo that matches any
of the other Tina Bar photos. ????
G.
of the other Tina Bar photos. ????
G.
snowmman 3
http://www.forester.net/msw_0103_beyond.html
Author is involved with The Garbage Project which has exhumed 15 to 40 year old readable newspapers from landfills.
The whole article is interesting, but key paragraphs:
"First, contrary to a commonly held belief that fluid - and especially water - greatly speeds biodegradation, most archaeologists are elated to excavate a waterlogged site. In cases where perishable materials are thoroughly saturated with water and there are no significant currents - certain marshes, swamps, small lakes, fill behind retaining walls in harbors, and even outhouses - archaeologists have found papers, textiles, leather, and a variety of food intact after 100 to even 1,000 years of burial."
"On the other hand, any archaeological site that goes through seasonal wet/dry cycles or that is submerged in moving water is not likely to produce many intact degradable or biodegradable remains. That is why the Garbage Project found clear evidence of significant biodegradation in the lowest lifts in New York City's unlined Fresh Kills Landfill, which began in 1948 on Staten Island in a swamp where tides wick water in and out of the bottom levels of refuse every day. This understanding of the role of moving fluids is behind the concept of bioreactor landfills, which are carefully designed to circulate leachate in an effort to facilitate biodegradation."
Author is involved with The Garbage Project which has exhumed 15 to 40 year old readable newspapers from landfills.
The whole article is interesting, but key paragraphs:
"First, contrary to a commonly held belief that fluid - and especially water - greatly speeds biodegradation, most archaeologists are elated to excavate a waterlogged site. In cases where perishable materials are thoroughly saturated with water and there are no significant currents - certain marshes, swamps, small lakes, fill behind retaining walls in harbors, and even outhouses - archaeologists have found papers, textiles, leather, and a variety of food intact after 100 to even 1,000 years of burial."
"On the other hand, any archaeological site that goes through seasonal wet/dry cycles or that is submerged in moving water is not likely to produce many intact degradable or biodegradable remains. That is why the Garbage Project found clear evidence of significant biodegradation in the lowest lifts in New York City's unlined Fresh Kills Landfill, which began in 1948 on Staten Island in a swamp where tides wick water in and out of the bottom levels of refuse every day. This understanding of the role of moving fluids is behind the concept of bioreactor landfills, which are carefully designed to circulate leachate in an effort to facilitate biodegradation."
georger 247
Quotehttp://www.forester.net/msw_0103_beyond.html
Author is involved with The Garbage Project which has exhumed 15 to 40 year old readable newspapers from landfills.
The whole article is interesting, but key paragraphs:
"First, contrary to a commonly held belief that fluid - and especially water - greatly speeds biodegradation, most archaeologists are elated to excavate a waterlogged site. In cases where perishable materials are thoroughly saturated with water and there are no significant currents - certain marshes, swamps, small lakes, fill behind retaining walls in harbors, and even outhouses - archaeologists have found papers, textiles, leather, and a variety of food intact after 100 to even 1,000 years of burial."
"On the other hand, any archaeological site that goes through seasonal wet/dry cycles or that is submerged in moving water is not likely to produce many intact degradable or biodegradable remains. That is why the Garbage Project found clear evidence of significant biodegradation in the lowest lifts in New York City's unlined Fresh Kills Landfill, which began in 1948 on Staten Island in a swamp where tides wick water in and out of the bottom levels of refuse every day. This understanding of the role of moving fluids is behind the concept of bioreactor landfills, which are carefully designed to circulate leachate in an effort to facilitate biodegradation."
REPLY> well known in archaeology circles - temperature of the water matters. The colder the better. Note the stress on currents vs still water above.
Note hat he says about paper:
"Some people might feel that if paper items do indeed decompose in a very short time, why go to the trouble of recycling them? But wouldn't they feel differently if they knew that most paper doesn't decompose rapidly in standard landfills or that, even if it did biodegrade, microorganisms do not affect the lignin (the fiber element in paper) that comprises 40% or so of paper's volume?
We could add sunlight into the equation.
G.
Ckret - Don't get me wrong,,
"Maybe if you read the posts using a mirror you might come up with a different conclusion."
I'm still laughing at that.
I apologize for the rude entry I made, I have already attended "Angry Email" counseling for crap I have sent out at work. I have a theory in refference to the "catwalk" that raises and acts as a ceiling when the airstairs are dropped, whether the pressure controler was in automatic or manuel, packs running or off, and position of the dump valve.....
You guys have a great discussion, I'll try to catch up, with as painfully slow as that may be.
"Maybe if you read the posts using a mirror you might come up with a different conclusion."
I'm still laughing at that.
I apologize for the rude entry I made, I have already attended "Angry Email" counseling for crap I have sent out at work. I have a theory in refference to the "catwalk" that raises and acts as a ceiling when the airstairs are dropped, whether the pressure controler was in automatic or manuel, packs running or off, and position of the dump valve.....
You guys have a great discussion, I'll try to catch up, with as painfully slow as that may be.
"Man could die eatin nothing but rabbit." - Patrick Foley
I am going to take a paper bag of the same quality Duane had in the car - I am also going to put cut paper (does anyone know of a paper that is close in texture and weight as money)?????
Thinking the bag could easily have held 3 to 5 bundles - I will do 4 for the test. In the bundles I am going to put a few 1 dollar bills with my name and a reward posted for their return and the site they find it at. These bills will have the information written on them with a marker - the kind you use to mark clothing at a nursing home.
In other words guys I am so convinced that it was part of the money he threw in the Columbia that day that I am willing to gamble some of my own money.
If any of you have any suggestions please let me know.
CKRET - I need to know what size rubber bands were on the money.
Wide, narrow or whatever. Also what Quality of rubber band do they think it was. I want to get as close as possible. I also need to know how many bills were in each bundle - 100, 200, 300 - when they orginally gave the money to Cooper. Preferrable I need old rubber bands that have been lying around for 6 yrs somewhere.
There will of course be weather conditions - and that will not be the same as it was in 1979...just the same period of time. If that money comes up on or near Tina's bar within 3 to 7 months - will you and the FBI listen to me a little more carefully.
Ckret - why did Agent Hope tell me that the serial numbers for Duane's military records belonged to another man in the beginning until I flat told him I already knew it was Duane's serials numbers, because they were written down in his address book.
...I learned that what had been told to me and what I believed may have happened did indeed happen..in KNOWN cases.
Identity swaps - a guy with kids comes home from basic - he swaps places with someone else who had the basics before he goes over - this could only be done if the assignment was not with the training group. There was a man who went on a TV program and admitted he did this during the Vietman era, but he did NOT disclose who the man was that went in his place. How many times has this happened in the mililtary?
Surely more than that one time. Later the military made this all but impossible with picture ID's and fingerprints, but what about before that time?
I welcome any suggestions of things that I might do on that trip besides retracking where Duane took me. I will be alone the first part of the trip - because that is the way I want it and then others will be asked to join me in my search the last 2 or 3 days.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber
Orange1 0
Quote
Note hat he says about paper:
"Some people might feel that if paper items do indeed decompose in a very short time, why go to the trouble of recycling them? But wouldn't they feel differently if they knew that most paper doesn't decompose rapidly in standard landfills or that, even if it did biodegrade, microorganisms do not affect the lignin (the fiber element in paper) that comprises 40% or so of paper's volume?
We could add sunlight into the equation.
G.
...just a reminder that "paper" money is not actually paper as most people think of it...(sorry, this pedant in me is hard to keep down). Then again, as it should be more resilient than paper I guess that underscores rather than undermines your quote.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.
Jim,
I like what you have to offer, but if you could read the posts to catch up it would really help. There are pictures posted of what caused the pressure bump, flucuations and oscillations discussed.
if you want to take another look at these topics bring something to the table. I am, and I know this group would be, more than willing to go back but you have to bring something more then "this one time at band camp.....".
Do some research to support your ideas, or go back and take a look at what others have done and bring something plausible back.
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