DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

wow! that pixel density work you did is excellent georger. I guess 2009 is "right" but it sure seems like an outlier...unless the plane did something weird there.

You have a 3rd opinion about the pts across the Columbia. You agree with me on one new one, but you drop one. I was wondering if we could justify one you don't have, based on comparing unlikely plane speeds on two adjacent legs there?

Although, could the change in direction (at the Columbia) mean ground speed increased, because plane direction was more aligned with wind direction? could that be an explanation?

Do you want me to stretch those maps into GE and get a kml for all your points? We also should agree on whether we should start using the "correct" times given the apparent 1 minute error. i.e. assume the first pt up by Seattle has the correct time, and go from there.

Quote

You do realise this map is NOT a radar plot map at all,
but some map somebody put tic marks on because
they felt they had positional information. The error
inherent in that far excedes any errors of other kinds discussed.

Yeah, I was trying to guess what kind of information it would be. For us with GE, we'd have used lat/long.
But if someone had lat/long from the radar guys, would it be easily transferable to that map?

Sluggo made some comments about "investigating the investigation" but it's like we have to do that, to understand the data.

The edges of the flight map aren't shown, so I don't know what kind of references there would be. Lat/long?
It seems like the ticks were done with a straightedge? so maybe a big T square or draftman's table used to transfer locations? Or was it marked by hand the night of the flight? who knows...

Usually, when we first get new data, we chew on it for a while, and find out it has some errors, or not.

Like the new photos. Do we have a new/correct money find site now or not? We never had good data before...just a position someone got after talking to Fazio I guess (the waymark lat/long). Or some guess based on the photos.

[snowmman 3]

jo will beat me up for this, but here's a pic of duane and jo from the CBS interview she did back in 2001 or so. My opinion is the more info the better.

It's an old photo. Not sure of the year.

Good to remind ourselves there's a human behind every post...regardless of Duane's past, looks like they had some good times.

And... I thought Jo looked kinda hot for back in the day...really!

Not sure of the year, but I never really liked Duane for a match cause of the hair and nose (biggish?)...ignoring the glasses issue.

[snowmman 3]

I got into looking at this because I was wondering about an engineer in the Portland area, rather than Seattle. Intel didn't have fabs there yet in '71. Tektronix was a big employer. They had their first hard time in '71..from company history:

"Earnings fell for the first time in fiscal 1971, by a devastating 34.7 percent. Early in the year employees took unpaid time off to avoid layoffs, but it did not help. That autumn, Tektronix announced the first layoffs in its fast-paced history. Adding to the pain that year was the death of Murdock, who drowned when his seaplane flipped during takeoff on the Columbia River. Murdock had not been active in daily management of the company for many years, but he had stayed on as chairman of the board and was generally regarded as the person who gave Tektronix its strategic vision. Less than two weeks after Murdock's death, Vollum suffered a heart attack. Vollum recovered, but he resigned as president in 1972."

Murdock was quite a guy. details of the accident:

from Google News (article snippet)
May 18, 1971 - State Patrol officers said Murdock, 54, and a passenger, Naomi Hamblin of Portland, swam for shore after staying with the overturned plane for two hours. Police said Murdock apparently did not make it to shore. Mrs. Hamblin said the two floated downstream with the plane until it was caught in ...

So, even though a lot of drowned bodies are found today, eventually (some not till 6 months later?)...this is an existence proof for a drowning victim in the Columbia never being found in '71.

Found recent friend's tribute which confirmed Murdock's body never found..also picture of flipped seaplane at this url:
http://www.orjw.org/Paranormal-journey/MJ-Murdock/index.htm

There's also the peripheral idea of a laid off Tektronix worker being Cooper? They cancelled layoffs in the spring, but I think? they had them in the fall as it notes above.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

I think #4 is Duane L. Weber...

funny! I thought the same thing!

Funny I also thought the same thing - but was afraid you guys would think I was hallucinating, but the picture was real fuzzy so it could have been anyone - wonder which of the passengers it really was.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I think #4 is Duane L. Weber...

funny! I thought the same thing!

Funny I also thought the same thing - but was afraid you guys would think I was hallucinating, but the picture was real fuzzy so it could have been anyone - wonder which of the passengers it really was.

But if "#4" was Duane, wouldn't that pretty much have proven he wasn't DB Cooper? At best he could have only then been an accomplice.

What I think the "passenger montage" proves is that, while everyone didn't look like Duane/DB Cooper, there were a couple of folks in that small sample that also fit the description within reasonable limits. That the description and sketches were vague enough to fit quite a few people.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 4]

Quote

hey quade, good to hear from you. I was actually missing you :)

Make no mistake, while I rarely comment on the ad nauseam trivia quest you guys are on, I'm still keeping watch that it's all going along a reasonable track of civility.

I also have at least one spy here that keeps me informed of anything too wacky. Not that there has been lately.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[nigel99 534]

Quote

But if "#4" was Duane, wouldn't that pretty much have proven he wasn't DB Cooper? At best he could have only then been an accomplice.

It would actually make alot of sense that it is/was Duane. If for some reason he was on the flight he could/would have had enough emotional connection and memory to follow the story (even as an innocent party). This could easily have become romantised to the point where he fantasised about his involvement - and over the years the story grows (like the fish that got away). From experience with my own family I know that some people can really struggle to separate fantasy from reality - to the point they genuinely believe their own lie.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[georger 247]

Quote

I got into looking at this because I was wondering about an engineer in the Portland area, rather than Seattle. Intel didn't have fabs there yet in '71. Tektronix was a big employer. They had their first hard time in '71..from company history:

"Earnings fell for the first time in fiscal 1971, by a devastating 34.7 percent. Early in the year employees took unpaid time off to avoid layoffs, but it did not help. That autumn, Tektronix announced the first layoffs in its fast-paced history. Adding to the pain that year was the death of Murdock, who drowned when his seaplane flipped during takeoff on the Columbia River. Murdock had not been active in daily management of the company for many years, but he had stayed on as chairman of the board and was generally regarded as the person who gave Tektronix its strategic vision. Less than two weeks after Murdock's death, Vollum suffered a heart attack. Vollum recovered, but he resigned as president in 1972."

Murdock was quite a guy. details of the accident:

from Google News (article snippet)
May 18, 1971 - State Patrol officers said Murdock, 54, and a passenger, Naomi Hamblin of Portland, swam for shore after staying with the overturned plane for two hours. Police said Murdock apparently did not make it to shore. Mrs. Hamblin said the two floated downstream with the plane until it was caught in ...

So, even though a lot of drowned bodies are found today, eventually (some not till 6 months later?)...this is an existence proof for a drowning victim in the Columbia never being found in '71.

Found recent friend's tribute which confirmed Murdock's body never found..also picture of flipped seaplane at this url:
http://www.orjw.org/Paranormal-journey/MJ-Murdock/index.htm

There's also the peripheral idea of a laid off Tektronix worker being Cooper? They cancelled layoffs in the spring, but I think? they had them in the fall as it notes above.

REPLY> Tektronix was a major lab equipment
supplier toward the end of the 60s. They owned the
market in their area. Suddenly they doubled their prices out of nowhere (Aug 69). This had immediate negative consequences for research programs across the country and in government (it sent NASA/JPL back
to Congress for more money and R&D engineers retooling). This was the first serious inflation which rippled through the health care system in '69 because many hospitals and medical labs operated with
Tektronix equipment. I remember this very well...

[georger 247]

Snow, you can do whatever you want with the data
I posted. I honestly havent tried to scale it to see if
it fits anything or how well, but it should and I know it
will. I have been totally emersed in checking reliability of the software to distinguish +'s from false reports, and the like. I would rather have an under report than over report.

I think Sluggo did well and my analysis proves it. I guess he did everything visually. The line of the flight is fairly well delineated in either case.

I just wanted to see if this method would work and
Sluggo should be happy with the confirming results.

Anyone using this map is at the mercy of the tic marks
and nothing based on them can be more accurate
than the tics themselves are, whoever made them.

I think as a historical matter it would be interesting to
know how the NWA Probability Map came to evolve
or was used to supplement the FBI's flight path map.
Together they form a powerful tool, potentially.

Let me be clear here. A professional analysis with
professional tools would do better. What I did was
fun and it does prove an analysis of this kind can
be done, quite easily.

[georger 247]

I forgot to say: Give me a list of any tics you want
me to check for - with times approx or positions, whichever, and I will look for them or double check them.

Frankly it would provide a double check for me I wouldnt mind doing at all. Im as curious about it as you are. If Sluggo or anyone else wants to chime in, that would be good also.

I will say this again. I did a number of reliability tests - many! Without going into all the gory details of what
and how I defined an "+" , for recognition, I will be happy to search for any tic you want me to search for
or check, because it gives me an opportunity to
test my methods, and I welcome that.

[Andy9o8 2]

Don Quixote pursued a quest for an impossible dream, and fantasized conspirators along the way.

But he was quite the madman.

[AggieDave 6]

Quote

It would actually make alot of sense that it is/was Duane. If for some reason he was on the flight he could/would have had enough emotional connection and memory to follow the story (even as an innocent party). This could easily have become romantised to the point where he fantasised about his involvement

That is the most reasonable explanation in regards to Duane's involvement that has been stated in the this thread or the previous. He was so persuasive, though, that he convinced his young bride of his lie as well.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Ckret 0]

Quote

Don Quixote pursued a quest for an impossible dream, and fantasized conspirators along the way.

But he was quite the madman.

Should we then aspire to Aldonza's view of the world, "The world's a dung heap and we are maggots that crawl on it!"

or Quixote's, "It is the mission of each true knight...
His duty... nay, his privilege!
To dream the impossible dream,
To fight the unbeatable foe,
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go;
To right the unrightable wrong.

To love, pure and chaste, from afar,
To try, when your arms are too weary,
To reach the unreachable star!

This is my Quest to follow that star,
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far,
To fight for the right
Without question or pause,
To be willing to march into hell
For a heavenly cause!

And I know, if I'll only be true
To this glorious Quest,
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest.

And the world will be better for this,
That one man, scorned and covered with scars,
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage,
To reach the unreachable star."

[ltdiver 3]

Isn't that sweet! Our very first serenade by an FBI agent!
Thanks for the smile in this thread. It's been quite dull lately....

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[ltdiver 3]

Quote

Quote

But if "#4" was Duane, wouldn't that pretty much have proven he wasn't DB Cooper? At best he could have only then been an accomplice.

It would actually make alot of sense that it is/was Duane. If for some reason he was on the flight he could/would have had enough emotional connection and memory to follow the story (even as an innocent party). This could easily have become romantised to the point where he fantasised about his involvement - and over the years the story grows (like the fish that got away). From experience with my own family I know that some people can really struggle to separate fantasy from reality - to the point they genuinely believe their own lie.

If you look back to the old thread this is a theory that was put forth in one of my entries as well. I agree with you that Duane might very well have been an accomplice, or at least someone who took a deep interest in the crime...deep enough to study anything he could find on the subject. And if someone does that, and immerses himself in the subject matter so keenly, they'll soon adopt the story as their own.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[nigel99 534]

Quote

or at least someone who took a deep interest in the crime...deep enough to study anything he could find on the subject. And if someone does that, and immerses himself in the subject matter so keenly, they'll soon adopt the story as their own.

Sluggo?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[snowmman 3]

Quote

I forgot to say: Give me a list of any tics you want
me to check for - with times approx or positions, whichever, and I will look for them or double check them.

Frankly it would provide a double check for me I wouldnt mind doing at all. Im as curious about it as you are. If Sluggo or anyone else wants to chime in, that would be good also.

I will say this again. I did a number of reliability tests - many! Without going into all the gory details of what
and how I defined an "+" , for recognition, I will be happy to search for any tic you want me to search for
or check, because it gives me an opportunity to
test my methods, and I welcome that.

I think the most interesting one is the one you didn't mark on the N bank of the Columbia. (Sluggo has one there, and I did too).

If that one doesn't exist, and we assume the one minute error is a real error, then with some forward throw, that could put Cooper in the Columbia at a "correct" 20:15:30 or so. Otherwise it's 20:16.

I guess with the inaccuracies we're dealing with it doesn't really matter that much.

Maybe when you measure the length resulting 1 minute leg you have currently, there's too much ground speed. So I think another tick is there?

[snowmman 3]

(edit) Found his real name. Richard Charles LaPoint, 23, an ex-Army paratrooper. Apparently from Revere, MA, or Seabrook NH? Vietnam vet.

full NYT article attached. I knew there was 3 successful jumps in '72 and found McCoy and Martin Joseph McNally. This guy must be the 3rd.

It was out of DC-9, not a 727. The kid only asked for $50,000. Injured on landing. Must have been a little chilly too. Jumped in cowboy boots. Day jump..about 3:25 PM. Asked for helmet in addition to the two chutes and money.

Trivia sidenote: Paul Cini's failed attempt was on a DC-8.

This cowboy had highway flares wired to a clock.

Plane started in Las Vegas, Landed in Denver, CO to get money and two chutes. Jumped near Akron, CO. Used alias "John Shane".

from the article:

"...mustachioed young man, dressed in cowboy boots and Western clothes...
...
The next report,...came at 1:57 PM when the plane was flying at 12,000 feet near Denver. At that time the hijacker was reported seeking instructions on how to open a seldom-used door at the rear of the plane.

The opening of this door was described as hazardous by the airline spokesman, who said it was situated beneath the two engines mounted on the rear of the fuselage.

The pilot of the hijacked airliner..said later that the man bailed out at 12,000 feet while the plane was traveling 180 miles an hour.
...
Two Air Force F-111 fighter-bombers trailed the hijacked plane....pilots ..spotted the parachute blossoming below the hijacked craft.
...
..officers had tracked the accused hijacker through snow and mud, finding him lying in a field about a half-mile from the nearest road. He complained of an injured leg."

(edit) here's an interesting failed attempt at parachute hijack. (Stanford grad too)

April 9, 1972 Stanley Speck, 31, a Stanford graduate, boarded a PSA plane, claimed he had a pistol and a grenade, and demanded $500,000 and four parachutes. He was tricked by the pilot into leaving the plane to pick up flight charts, and captured by the FBI and the airline president.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

All,

I’m staying out of discussions for a while, I think sometimes I stifle creativity (not intentionally, it is just part of my personality). But, I’m watching and taking it all in.

A “friend of N467US.com” sent me this and it made me laugh:


Who Is D B Cooper

I thought I would share it with you guys.

Keep up the good work.

By the way, as popular as it is Google Earth is the “most inaccurate” of any of the commonly used “non-professional” mapping software. It is great for its images and the “social networking” function, but accurate (or precise) it isn’t. I use it all the time for what it is good for.

If anyone wants a “good” set of Coordinates for the circles on the recent high-res Tena Bar aerial photos, let me know and I’ll produce them.

The scales of the originals of the maps were 1:24,000 (1970 and 1974) and 1:20,000 (1979) but I have no idea how big the image was. My guess is about 8” x 10” or 8.5” x 11”. (that would be about 2 meters per pixel on the scanned images). I can calculate this also, if anyone needs it. It just takes a bunch of time.

For comparison look at Tena Bar 1 mpp.jpg and Tena Bar 1974 FBI.jpg. My guess is that the FBI-supplied image is about 2 meters per pixel. The date of Tena Bar 1 mpp.jpg is 8/5/2000. That’s a quick-and-dirty calibration.

Sluggo_Monster

PS: One more thing. I AM NOT D B Cooper. I asked Ckret and he said my DNA didn’t match the tie and I am too short.

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

I forgot to say: Give me a list of any tics you want
me to check for - with times approx or positions, whichever, and I will look for them or double check them.

Frankly it would provide a double check for me I wouldnt mind doing at all. Im as curious about it as you are. If Sluggo or anyone else wants to chime in, that would be good also.

I will say this again. I did a number of reliability tests - many! Without going into all the gory details of what
and how I defined an "+" , for recognition, I will be happy to search for any tic you want me to search for
or check, because it gives me an opportunity to
test my methods, and I welcome that.

I think the most interesting one is the one you didn't mark on the N bank of the Columbia. (Sluggo has one there, and I did too).

If that one doesn't exist, and we assume the one minute error is a real error, then with some forward throw, that could put Cooper in the Columbia at a "correct" 20:15:30 or so. Otherwise it's 20:16.

I guess with the inaccuracies we're dealing with it doesn't really matter that much.

Maybe when you measure the length resulting 1 minute leg you have currently, there's too much ground speed. So I think another tick is there?

REPLY> The attached illustrates the challenge of
identifying tic marks (+). I took a conservative approach and ruled out x's and X's versus +'s.
The tic on the North shoreline of the Columbia is
more of the form (x) vs. (+). This is why it wasn't counted and illustrates what I mean when I say "I
took a conservative approach'.

I decided to do this because the final tic marks appear
to be very well formed crosses in most cases, and large in most cases.

What this map actually shows (revealed in the attached) is a layered series of stages where one
or more people using points, marks, x's, and finally large cross + tic marks build this map. The x's and +'s and sometimes penciled dots then covered over by at least three and sometimes four layers of penciled line
work. This map has revisions, corrections, and guesstimates right on its surface. You can see that
easily. (The relief photo of this map I posted earlier
shows the layering).

This means even the makers of the map were uncertain themselves in the data! I have labeled
places where multiple tics were made in a small area
or where it appears a provisional pencil point was
applied then the final tic mark placed elsewhere
nearby. There was uncertainty in making this map
and the pencil works shows it.

But, where on the map is the greatest uncertainty?
If the layers of lines and multiples of provisional pencil mark x's, black penciled dots, and tiny + tic marks
in red, prior to final large red cross +'s means uncertainty, then the greatest area of uncertainty is in the Columbia area without question.

No where else on the map do you see this multiplicity
(indecision) about where to make large tic crosses (+)
in red...... if these large red +'s represent radar data.

Here is what may have happened.

The people making the map may have had 3 or 4
sources of data they were weighing or trying to put
together. This may very well have involved some
PDX radar data or PDX radar estimates for one of
the operators. This may account for why the PDX
area is so 'complicated' in the making of this map.

You can see it for yourself in the PDX area map
section attached here .

[georger 247]

All -

I realise this map quest is confusing and tedious.

Snowmman, here may be the better way to illustrate
the layering on the map - its construction phases.
This is a simple Negative image of the map, and an
(unsharp mask) version of the same thing.

Layered features are seen as follows:

All megenta features: lite blue

Penciled x's, dots, lines and everything penciled:
white or whitish. This reveals the many separate
penciled lines, hard dots, hard small x's or a few
+'s in some cases. But at least two different hardness
pencils were used ( a #2 and #3-4 I would guess).

fine' le finitissomo!

[skyjack71 0]

FACE IT, if Duane had been a passenger under any name the FBI would have already have stated that yrs ago. I assure you the FBI would have checked that out - now if they didn't - what would that SAY for the FBI?

No, If Duane had a known connection to the flight the FBI would have let the public and media know right up front when all of this started in 1996. They are NOT fools.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Question 1) Did DC-9's get a modification to prevent use of the rear door? or only 727's? (the fake cowboy jumped from a DC-9 rear door)

Question 2) In reading about these other extortion hijackings, I'm wondering if the profile for Cooper is just all wrong.

1) It doesn't seem like he knew anything special about planes. He was wrong about stairs at takeoff. And he didn't need wheels down to achieve a slow enough jump speed. Right ? I'm saying that because I don't think the other people had wheels down? How did we get to his wheels and flaps request showing expertise? Doesn't it show lack of expertise?

2) He only asked for flaps down, not 15 degrees. Asking for wheels down and flaps down can be interpreted as lack of knowledge.

3) Disguises seem de rigueur. By default we should assume Cooper was disguised. He had sunglasses, so he was thinking disguise? A disguise would be to wear what you're not.

4) It seems unlikely to me that anyone involved in commercial aviation would do this to a commercial flight crew. Yet we want to say he was involved in aviation?

5) He was wrong about fuel apparently. Again lack of plane expertise.

6) He didn't specify flight paths.

7) The comment about Tacoma from the air seems to indicate non-local to me. I don't see what data says "seattle area resident". The McChord comment is only accurate to the level of reading a map..can be interpreted as inaccurate actually?

8) The request for negotiable US currency seems odd.
(edit) Did Scott make up that phrase in the transcript. Ckret's post below seems to say he just asked for cash?

If Cooper did use the phrase: Either misdirection or showing expertise/thinking about the money. He's showing more expertise here than in any of his other requests, yet we ignore it?

9) we say he was "well spoken" kind of implying a white-collar maybe college educated. But when he says "no funny stuff" or "get this plane on the road" or "I'll do the job" or "take this down"...we act like that kind of talk isn't important for understanding cooper. Or we assume he's acting. I'm wondering if he really used the word "aft". I'm thinking no.

10) If we agree a night jump was a bad plan, then his attempt to get things by 5 may be seen as an attempt to get done before dark. But that shows lack of expertise then, because he's not thinking about refuel time and takeoff time on the ground.

So I don't see how any of the data agrees with the profile Ckret has put out there. Even though Cooper was first, when you look at the other extortion hijackings where they jumped, our focus on aviation connection (engineer) just seems wrong? Also the idea of a local seems weak, especially when you look at the other extortion hijackings.

It's like we look at the data, and ignore it?

from Ckret's June 5, 2008 post
This is what Cooper relayed to the crew through Mucklow:

(1) Fly to Mexico City non-stop, if you can't make it then anywhere in Mexico.
(2) Fly with landing gear and flaps down
(3) Do not fly above 10,000 feet
(4) Fly with the lights out in the cabin
(5) Do not land in the US for fuel or any other reason.
(6) No one aft of the first Class Curtain
(7) After takeoff the stewardess will be allowed to the cockpit.
(8) The rear door open and the stairs extended for takeoff.

from Ckret April 6, 2008
Cooper said to Schaffner, "Take this down." These are Cooper exact words as spoken to Schaffner:

"I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

[Orange1 0]

Quote

They [FBI] are NOT fools.

Interesting perspective.. so by logical extension can we ignore all the previous posts where you have tried to imply they are? (And thus dismiss Duane as a suspect entirely, and get on with finding out who it really was?)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

Quote

Question 1) Did DC-9's get a modification to prevent use of the rear door? or only 727's? (the fake cowboy jumped from a DC-9 rear door)

Question 2) In reading about these other extortion hijackings, I'm wondering if the profile for Cooper is just all wrong.

1) It doesn't seem like he knew anything special about planes. He was wrong about stairs at takeoff. And he didn't need wheels down to achieve a slow enough jump speed. Right ? I'm saying that because I don't think the other people had wheels down? How did we get to his wheels and flaps request showing expertise? Doesn't it show lack of expertise?

2) He only asked for flaps down, not 15 degrees. Asking for wheels down and flaps down can be interpreted as lack of knowledge.

3) Disguises seem de rigueur. By default we should assume Cooper was disguised. He had sunglasses, so he was thinking disguise? A disguise would be to wear what you're not.

4) It seems unlikely to me that anyone involved in commercial aviation would do this to a commercial flight crew. Yet we want to say he was involved in aviation?

5) He was wrong about fuel apparently. Again lack of plane expertise.

6) He didn't specify flight paths.

7) The comment about Tacoma from the air seems to indicate non-local to me. I don't see what data says "seattle area resident". The McChord comment is only accurate to the level of reading a map..can be interpreted as inaccurate actually?

8) The request for negotiable US currency seems odd.
(edit) Did Scott make up that phrase in the transcript. Ckret's post below seems to say he just asked for cash?

If Cooper did use the phrase: Either misdirection or showing expertise/thinking about the money. He's showing more expertise here than in any of his other requests, yet we ignore it?

9) we say he was "well spoken" kind of implying a white-collar maybe college educated. But when he says "no funny stuff" or "get this plane on the road" or "I'll do the job" or "take this down"...we act like that kind of talk isn't important for understanding cooper. Or we assume he's acting. I'm wondering if he really used the word "aft". I'm thinking no.

10) If we agree a night jump was a bad plan, then his attempt to get things by 5 may be seen as an attempt to get done before dark. But that shows lack of expertise then, because he's not thinking about refuel time and takeoff time on the ground.

So I don't see how any of the data agrees with the profile Ckret has put out there. Even though Cooper was first, when you look at the other extortion hijackings where they jumped, our focus on aviation connection (engineer) just seems wrong? Also the idea of a local seems weak, especially when you look at the other extortion hijackings.

It's like we look at the data, and ignore it?

from Ckret's June 5, 2008 post
This is what Cooper relayed to the crew through Mucklow:

(1) Fly to Mexico City non-stop, if you can't make it then anywhere in Mexico.
(2) Fly with landing gear and flaps down
(3) Do not fly above 10,000 feet
(4) Fly with the lights out in the cabin
(5) Do not land in the US for fuel or any other reason.
(6) No one aft of the first Class Curtain
(7) After takeoff the stewardess will be allowed to the cockpit.
(8) The rear door open and the stairs extended for takeoff.

from Ckret April 6, 2008
Cooper said to Schaffner, "Take this down." These are Cooper exact words as spoken to Schaffner:

"I want $200,000 by 5:00 PM in cash. Put it in a knapsack. I want two back parachutes and two front parachutes. When we land, I want a fuel truck ready to refuel. No funny stuff, or I'll do the job."

REPLY> and the biggest fact of all: He hijacks and
holds for ransom an airplane in flight! Not your average civilian.