DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

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Maybe Cooper just said "Yes I know" to everything.

Good observation.. the "yes I know" response is very common in children of a certain age, but also of adults who don't like to be perceived as knowing less than they think they are supposed to.

Then again, maybe he just did know it all... which would suggest a recce of some sort. Still, when you point out, and respond:

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Since not every 727 carried oxygen bottles in that same compartment and since no one had seen him open it and look inside, Tina concluded that he must have found out about it prior to that flight"

Goes on to suggest he probably had boarded the flight before, and aborted the hijack when he couldn't get the seating he wanted.

I'm not quite sure how that conclusion follows (do I read right that it was Tosaw's conclusion, not yours) - or have I missed something along the way that indicated he wanted to be sitting at the oxygen? (he had after all asked for the plane to be flown depressurized which should preclude need for oxygen)

Hi orange1. Per the conclusion: Tosaw reported it as a FBI speculation. Unclear if they really did conclude that. Tosaw tied it all in (a prior run, wanting a back seat, finding out about oxygen on prior run? etc) as maybe helping to explain why Coop ended up doing it on thanksgiving eve. But that's just more random speculation.

(edit) orange1: on the "yes I know", you're remembering what ckret said about the parachute instructions, right? same thing, if I recall.

Yes it's all very confusing. Ckret confirmed a conversation about oxygen, but with little detail about how such a conversation started. Tosaw's account seems to make sense, but Sluggo somehow throws a fit in worrying about "obstruction" when I report other accounts.

I'm not sure if Sluggo is talking about his mind, or worrying about the mind of others. Sluggo: I don't think you have to worry about others? I document the source always. More data is good data, as long as source-documented.

Hey there's a new youtube video a guy put up (the guy who did the morph for Sluggo I think)...he has a link to Sluggo's site in the info, with kudos about how great a site it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGkhZ6D4gUY
(just noticed that he has some errors. Mentions a knapsack)

Hey quade: I drive a 2004 R32. crashed my prior '95 V6 GTI.

[quade 4]

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Hey quade: I drive a 2004 R32. crashed my prior '95 V6 GTI.

R32s weren't available in the US when I bought my GTI. I -may- have popped the extra cash down at the time had one been available. I'm damn glad I got the GTI when I did. It was a period of me making a stupid amount of money (for the effort involved) and was able to get it paid off quickly.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[georger 247]

Good observation.. the "yes I know" response


REPLY> It was in Cooper's interest to keep people
guessing (up to a point) and assuming competence
on his part. "Yes I know" would be appropriate, for
that reason alone.

[snowmman 3]

So what's weird is that evidently there's a collector's subculture that collects old flight timetables.

I found a northwest orient "system timetable" on ebay.
Date "effective august 1, 1971"

So it should be pretty good for seeing what Cooper may have saw, if he did any planning from a timetable.

Attached the front from the ebay auction.
It'll be probably take a while for the guy to ship it to me.
Cost me $8+shipping. Am I putting out or what? :)
I had to wait 6 days hoping none of you guys would shill bid it up, just to jerk my chain.

Be interesting to see what's in it. I suppose it would be possible to get "all" the airlines that were at PDX in '71. What other airlines went PDX to SeaTac in '71?

Hey that Ingram bill that was sold to the teacher in OK a long time ago (like around '86) that was on ebay, that I mentioned? It finally sold for $2706
Interestingly, it was one of the bills that showed a face in the 12 bundles in the green table b/w photos.
(serial number match)....that in itself makes it more interesting...probably would have been a good bill to analyze for that reason.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300239738338

[georger 247]

I found a northwest orient "system timetable" on ebay.
Date "effective august 1, 1971"

So it should be pretty good for seeing what Cooper may have saw, if he did any planning from a timetable.

Attached the front from the ebay auction.
It'll be probably take a while for the guy to ship it to me.
Cost me $8+shipping. Am I putting out or what? :)
I had to wait 6 days hoping none of you guys would shill bid it up, just to jerk my chain.

Be interesting to see what's in it. I suppose it would be possible to get "all" the airlines that were at PDX in '71. What other airlines went PDX to SeaTac in '71?

Hey that Ingram bill that was sold to the teacher in OK a long time ago (like around '86) that was on ebay, that I mentioned? It finally sold for $2706
Interestingly, it was one of the bills that showed a face in the 12 bundles in the green table b/w photos.


REPLY> I would like to see some of this money go to the Smithsonian but hate the thought of them having to spend thousands just to get a few bills.

Your timetable should be interesting -

[377 22]

So what's weird is that evidently there's a collector's subculture that collects old flight timetables. ***

I looked in on an an airline memorabilia convention once that happened to be in a hotel where I was staying. The trade in airline schedules was not nearly as weird as the many collectors of airline barf bags. Big interest in airline silverware and china too. Luggage tags, seat back emergency cards, kids jr. pilot wings... they all had their collectors.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[skyjack71 0]

Everyone needs to go to this site:

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/conscientiousobjection/CPScampsList.htm

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/conscientiousobjection/c.o.list.htm

After you pull that up you go to Manuscript Collectiuon in the Swarthmore College - Peace- Collection That Related to Conscientious Objection.

There is a list (not complete) of conscientious objectors.

You read down the alphabetical list until you get to C

Cooper, Dan (Vietnam Conflict C.O.) (Elliston P. Morris (CDGA)

I just thought this is a weird place to find D.B. Cooper -

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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Some time ago, a panel was assembled and
recommended to Larry Carr with the idea of examining the money.

This may be a dumb question, but is there ANYTHING regarding the found money that would indicate whether it impacted at terminal velocity or came down under an open canopy? I cannot think of anything other than a high force impact puncture through a stack of bills and that was not found.

If such an indicator did exist it probably could not distinguish between the money coming loose during the jump or staying with Cooper under an open canopy. I am just trying to see if there is any possibility that the money could tell us whether Cooper went in undeployed.

Georger, Snowmman, Sluggo?

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[nigel99 534]

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Some time ago, a panel was assembled and
recommended to Larry Carr with the idea of examining the money.

This may be a dumb question, but is there ANYTHING regarding the found money that would indicate whether it impacted at terminal velocity or came down under an open canopy? I cannot think of anything other than a high force impact puncture through a stack of bills and that was not found.

If such an indicator did exist it probably could not distinguish between the money coming loose during the jump or staying with Cooper under an open canopy. I am just trying to see if there is any possibility that the money could tell us whether Cooper went in undeployed.

Georger, Snowmman, Sluggo?

What about blood stains - from what people have said about bounces I imagine it would not be hard to get at least some samples onto the money - could the rust stains be blood?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[snowmman 3]

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Everyone needs to go to this site:

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/conscientiousobjection/CPScampsList.htm

http://www.swarthmore.edu/library/peace/conscientiousobjection/c.o.list.htm

After you pull that up you go to Manuscript Collectiuon in the Swarthmore College - Peace- Collection That Related to Conscientious Objection.

There is a list (not complete) of conscientious objectors.

You read down the alphabetical list until you get to C

Cooper, Dan (Vietnam Conflict C.O.) (Elliston P. Morris (CDGA)

I just thought this is a weird place to find D.B. Cooper -

hmm...and Ckret told me you were discreet...:)

Good going Jo. Yeah that's pretty weird. Maybe it reinforces the commonness of "Dan Cooper" and we shouldn't read anything into the choice of alias. Although LaPoint who dressed up in cowboy boots and western shirt, used the alias "John Shane". (remember the book "Shane")

I think when Ckret puts the grab on Cooper, he should ride a horse ...and it's gotta be in a saloon..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFquzxwYoeE
(the kid with the dog is me searching in the graveyard for Sluggo)

I love the dialog. Better than Point Break.

[snowmman 3]

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Some time ago, a panel was assembled and
recommended to Larry Carr with the idea of examining the money.

This may be a dumb question, but is there ANYTHING regarding the found money that would indicate whether it impacted at terminal velocity or came down under an open canopy? I cannot think of anything other than a high force impact puncture through a stack of bills and that was not found.

If such an indicator did exist it probably could not distinguish between the money coming loose during the jump or staying with Cooper under an open canopy. I am just trying to see if there is any possibility that the money could tell us whether Cooper went in undeployed.

Georger, Snowmman, Sluggo?

What about blood stains - from what people have said about bounces I imagine it would not be hard to get at least some samples onto the money - could the rust stains be blood?

The last time we talked about the money and the bag and tie on, I thought the consensus was that it was likely the bag separated from cooper? A separated bag would have a different terminal velocity? I think I used the example of McNally's money bag landing without exploding (evidently, because of how it was found)...to surmise that maybe Cooper's bag wouldn't explode (Although McNally's was not a open-necked bank bag).

I don't think we agreed on terminal velocity of a 21 lb money bag?

[nigel99 534]

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The last time we talked about the money and the bag and tie on, I thought the consensus was that it was likely the bag separated from cooper? A separated bad would have a different terminal velocity? I think I used the example of McNally's money bag landing without exploding (evidently, because of how it was found)...to surmise that maybe Cooper's bag wouldn't explode (Although McNally's was not a open-necked bank bag).

I don't think we agreed on terminal velocity of a 21 lb money bag?

I was simply answering 377 comment about what on the money might indicate that it did not separate from Cooper and he bounced (he also mentioned money separated and money under inflated parachute)

The terminal velocity of the money bag was exactly 79.0909091Mph according to the frigged values that I put into the online terminal velocity calculator on Nasa's websitehttp://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

On a more serious note wouldn't material analysis possibly show the "history" of the money, that is perhaps particles or bateria indicating storage in a bucket or being submerged for x years and possibly being buried for y years - rather than the form of descent that the money took?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[skyjack71 0]

Georger makes a strange post and I make a strange post and this thread is standing still.


Question? Who was the author of that Dan Cooper Comic - just curious and I am too lazy and relaxed tonight to go search for it.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[quade 4]

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. . . and I am too lazy and relaxed tonight to go search for it.

Uh . . . me too?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[377 22]

Good one Quade.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

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The last time we talked about the money and the bag and tie on, I thought the consensus was that it was likely the bag separated from cooper? A separated bad would have a different terminal velocity? I think I used the example of McNally's money bag landing without exploding (evidently, because of how it was found)...to surmise that maybe Cooper's bag wouldn't explode (Although McNally's was not a open-necked bank bag).

I don't think we agreed on terminal velocity of a 21 lb money bag?

I was simply answering 377 comment about what on the money might indicate that it did not separate from Cooper and he bounced (he also mentioned money separated and money under inflated parachute)

The terminal velocity of the money bag was exactly 79.0909091Mph according to the frigged values that I put into the online terminal velocity calculator on Nasa's websitehttp://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/termv.html

On a more serious note wouldn't material analysis possibly show the "history" of the money, that is perhaps particles or bateria indicating storage in a bucket or being submerged for x years and possibly being buried for y years - rather than the form of descent that the money took?

REPLY> All of these issues and more are on the agenda. After 37 years its a long list, as you can imagine.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

NEED HELP WITH THIS ONE

ATTENTION ALL PILOTS AND JUMPERS FROM 1950'S - 60'S

ALL I HAVE IS A LAST NAME

LINSTROM OR LINDSTROM - ASSOCIATED WITH FLYING CLOUD IN MN AT THAT TIME.

Thank you

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Ckret 0]

Sluggo,

I found the film of the test drop, but we don't have anyway to play it. I have asked our in-house lab to try and locate an old projector. Once I find one I'll video tape it and put it up on google video.

Also, since Georger let it out I'll do the best I can to get the bills out by Wednesday. i was able to get through the red tape, now i just have to find the time to do the paper. Since 377 isn't sleeping I'll stay late on Tuesday if I have to to get it out on Wednesday.

[377 22]

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Since 377 isn't sleeping I'll stay late on Tuesday if I have to to get it out on Wednesday.

Thanks Ckret.

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

NEW ISSUES: to all . . .

Issue #1 - Larry Finegold Atty:
Larry Finegold atty was aboard Flight 305 11/24/71.
Mr. Finegold is well known as a Federal Prosecutor.
Was Mr. Finegold a Federal Prosecutor at the time
Cooper hijacked 305? What was Mr. Finegold's practice on 11/24/71? Could Mr. Cooper have known Mr. Finegold?


Issue #2 - How many Parachutes! ?:
We have been operating on the premise that 3
parachutes were found at Reno: one back pack,
two front packs with one pulled open and cords
cut. Earl Cossey has said this is what the FBI told
him. The NWA transcript however says this:

*“Two little chutes gone, one big chute cut up apparently to tie the money with shroud
lines to HJ. One big chute apparently still on plane."

The NWA transcript implies Cooper bailed with a front pack.

How is this discrepancy resolved?

Georger

[georger 247]

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Sluggo,

I found the film of the test drop, but we don't have anyway to play it. I have asked our in-house lab to try and locate an old projector. Once I find one I'll video tape it and put it up on google video.

Also, since Georger let it out I'll do the best I can to get the bills out by Wednesday. i was able to get through the red tape, now i just have to find the time to do the paper. Since 377 isn't sleeping I'll stay late on Tuesday if I have to to get it out on Wednesday.

REPLY: Ckret, take whatever time you need. Its
your call, of course.

Im sorry if I jumped the gate but you posted a comment so I thought I had to follow up.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

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Issue #1 - Larry Finegold Atty:
Larry Finegold atty was aboard Flight 305 11/24/71.
Mr. Finegold is well known as a Federal Prosecutor.
Was Mr. Finegold a Federal Prosecutor at the time
Cooper hijacked 305? What was Mr. Finegold's practice on 11/24/71? Could Mr. Cooper have known Mr. Finegold?

I spoke with Mr. Finegold and sent him a letter many yrs ago to which he replied. This was in March of 1998. He was cordial and his response in writing was very short and to the point. He said he would speak with Ralph Himmelsbach and if deamed appropriate for him to help me that he would be in contact with me. We may have had another conversations by phone.

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We have been operating on the premise that 3
parachutes were found at Reno: one back pack,
two front packs with one pulled open and cords
cut. Earl Cossey has said this is what the FBI told
him. The NWA transcript however says this:

*“Two little chutes gone, one big chute cut up apparently to tie the money with shroud
lines to HJ. One big chute apparently still on plane."

The NWA transcript implies Cooper bailed with a front pack.

How is this discrepancy resolved?

Guess I don't understand front pack / back pack. Aren't the front packs the little emergency packs one of which was a dummy? Which is myth and which is fact...the facts are scrambled eggs now.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

CKRET - WHY!

WHY DID I HAVE TO FIND THIS ON MY OWN. DUANE LIVED IN LYNDEN, WA WITH MARY JANE AND YET SHE DENIED EVERY BEING IN WASHINGTON. I NEED TO KNOW WHY I HAD TO FIND THIS ON THE INTERNET.

HE ALSO LIVED IN LIVINGSTON TX,
among a few other places.

Please WAKE up...now I know why he talked about Canada. You guys had to have had this information all along - yet, I was told that the only time he was in WA was while he was incarcerated at McNeil.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Online Manners - DON'T SHOUT
More internet etiquette tips: Whether you're sending emails, chatting online, or using an instant messenger, using ALLCAPS is referred to as "shouting." While it is permissible to occasionally use ALLCAPS to emphasize a point, people find entire sentences written in capitals hard to read. As a result "shouting" online is considered rude.

http://computer.lifetips.com/cat/59622/internet-etiquette-tips/

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Idly wondering... why, if something is available on the internet, one would expect the FBI to waste its time hunting after information that is clearly in the public domain. Especially if the subject involved, while clearly of a criminal past, has already been ruled out as being a suspect in any unsolved crimes. (And this would even be before we consider how rude and insulting someone may have regularly been towards the FBI agent concerned, in public.)

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.