DB Cooper

[Orange1 0]

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Everyone has an accent (phonetic signature).

yeah... which is why there was a big debate about "no accent" which (IIRC) most seemed to accept as meaning "no identifiable regional accent" (i.e. not no "foreign" accent).

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

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Everyone has an accent (phonetic signature).

yeah... which is why there was a big debate about "no accent" which (IIRC) most seemed to accept as meaning "no identifiable regional accent" (i.e. not no "foreign" accent).

REPLY>

No doubt Tina knew more than she said, or was asked. She probably was responding to someone's question: "did he have any accent?" But she spent
hours with her conversing. Now if Tina had been an
expert on phonology (like Jeff Nunberg, CalTech)
a small treatise probably would have been written:
'Dialect Variation and Consonental Drift of a Hijacker'!
And under the circumstances, Tina and Coop were not sitting there discussing family history, I presume.

You take what you get in these matters. But, if Tina
had sat down with a linguist she might have been able to provide some clues. Everybody is from somewhere ...

Cooper is reported to have said: "Get this plane on
the road" which is a derrivative of "Get the show on the road" which oddly enough may have its origins in the Chicago area of the early 1900's ( a linguist
reports). But its a common phase many people use
in many regions. There are regional differences. One
cannot hep but wonder however, was Cooper from the Midwest, the Chicago area, Minneapolis . . .

If his physical description is valid then he obviously
had an ethnic lineage which was not Irish or Scandinavian. Given that he was second or third generation something.

George

[snowmman 3]

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Everyone has an accent (phonetic signature).

yeah... which is why there was a big debate about "no accent" which (IIRC) most seemed to accept as meaning "no identifiable regional accent" (i.e. not no "foreign" accent).

REPLY>

No doubt Tina knew more than she said, or was asked. She probably was responding to someone's question: "did he have any accent?" But she spent
hours with her conversing. Now if Tina had been an
expert on phonology (like Jeff Nunberg, CalTech)
a small treatise probably would have been written:
'Dialect Variation and Consonental Drift of a Hijacker'!
And under the circumstances, Tina and Coop were not sitting there discussing family history, I presume.

You take what you get in these matters. But, if Tina
had sat down with a linguist she might have been able to provide some clues. Everybody is from somewhere ...

Cooper is reported to have said: "Get this plane on
the road" which is a derrivative of "Get the show on the road" which oddly enough may have its origins in the Chicago area of the early 1900's ( a linguist
reports). But its a common phase many people use
in many regions. There are regional differences. One
cannot hep but wonder however, was Cooper from the Midwest, the Chicago area, Minneapolis . . .

If his physical description is valid then he obviously
had an ethnic lineage which was not Irish or Scandinavian. Given that he was second or third generation something.

George

You've forgotten where Tina was from? Not midwest.
SE PA, right? Remember I posted the newspaper article where they talked to her mother the night of the hijack.

also:
I was looking at use of the phrase "get this plane on", followed by whatever.

It seems "get this plane on the ground" is used, when pilots are panicked?

I always wondered if "get this plane on the road" was a reference to getting the plane onto the runway.

I don't know why people make the leap from "plane on the road" to "show on the road". There's nothing that would say to me that if someone says the former, they mean the latter.

[skyjack71 0]

I have to get my two cents in here even with a sleeping pill in me. I have alway been told that Cooper had No accent which is taken in those days to mean he had a midwest accent that would pass all over the states...many of our commentator were midwest as it was the one most understood thru out the US except the deep deep south.

Before Duane Died he wanted to go for a ride. I tried to get clothes and diapers on him for that ride because it was stormy and pouring rain. We only got to out side the door and he knew we could go no further, but he was yelling. "Come on Jo, Lets get this show on the road - lets get on down the road"
He was unrelenting in wanting to get the show on the road. All we managed was his covered in the wheelchair and having a cigarette with the wind and rain blowing like hell. There was a army paratrooper standing there and Duane took up a quick conversation with him - he knew the man was a paratrooper because of an imblem I guess or a pin. The weather was terrible and the space tight - and we went back inside. I know there was a mention of Belgium but that is all I recalled - I was too busy trying to shelter him. It was an unseasonal cold wet stormy night in Florida that night - he died two days later.
The next day he was ranting again about getting the F...ing Show on the Road, but the nurses sedated him. He fought them he was standing and they wanted to put a patch on his back - he was as strong as a horse and he said NO NO their are goiing to kill me. Well, they did get a patch on his back and after I left they kept pumping pills into him - when I returned around noon the next day he was talking riddlles and then made the death gurgle. They had OD'd him that night.

The last statements he made.
"that the baby downstair
BRING THE BAby upstairs.
I can't go till the baby gets her"

There was a qurgle and "I lovvve youu" and then he was no more.

He left this world in the same horrible weather on March 28 after having ceased diaylisis as bravely as he made that jump on November 24, but this time he was in a wheelchair and not standing on the aft stairs of a 727. He alway when through his plans regardless of what the consequences where. That is who he was.

He did not expect to survive that jump. He had gone to Kansas to find his wife and she wasn't there and he set off to WA where both son were serving. He didn't find her and there was and is a daughter somewere in that part of the country named Zona - I guess he coudn't fine her either . He never got to say good bye,..she whould have been about Tina's age and blonde - raised in a Catholic school. A wet picture is all he had of a 8 rys old child when he last saw her and she said she didn't want to seen him again.

I think he chose Tina because of her age and appearance - I frankly believe there was conversatoin between Tina and Duane that we will never know about. From what little Tina told me when she talked to me (if it was Tina ) was the man was a very unhappy man and to let it go.

As has been said to me before - was I really speaking to Tina?

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

George

[Orange1 0]

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I always wondered if "get this plane on the road" was a reference to getting the plane onto the runway.

I don't know why people make the leap from "plane on the road" to "show on the road". There's nothing that would say to me that if someone says the former, they mean the latter.

-----------------------------------------------------
REPLY> But I do make that association, but Im
Midwestern since birth. For Cooper it expresses his
frustration/anxiety.

It's clear from the context of "get this plane on the road" (again, it's in the transcript) that he meant he wanted things to move faster.

But the midwest surely does not have a monopoly on the phrase... "get this show on the road" (assuming that's where it's from and makes sense to me it does) has long been used here, halfway around the world from there. As I understand, the phrase originates from travelling circuses/carnivals (which by definition went to lots of places )

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[377 22]

Has the money sample gone to the dream team?

Has Galen emerged from his igloo with a manuscript yet?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

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I always wondered if "get this plane on the road" was a reference to getting the plane onto the runway.

I don't know why people make the leap from "plane on the road" to "show on the road". There's nothing that would say to me that if someone says the former, they mean the latter.

-----------------------------------------------------
REPLY> But I do make that association, but Im
Midwestern since birth. For Cooper it expresses his
frustration/anxiety.

It's clear from the context of "get this plane on the road" (again, it's in the transcript) that he meant he wanted things to move faster.

But the midwest surely does not have a monopoly on the phrase... "get this show on the road" (assuming that's where it's from and makes sense to me it does) has long been used here, halfway around the world from there. As I understand, the phrase originates from travelling circuses/carnivals (which by definition went to lots of places )

from travelling circuses/carnivals ... in Chicago area
home of several large circus companies in the early 1900's. Was picked up and used by traveling theatre
groups also - nevertheless your point is very well
taken. No single locus. Everywhere as an idiom,
in 1971?

[georger 247]

NEW - Flood of 1977.

SafecrackingPLF and others commented about
a flood along the Columbia in 1977. One chart (below) did not seem to confirm that. A return to
the topic today yielded the quote below. Anyone have
more?

Water-Supply Paper 2502
Summary of Significant Floods in the United States, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands, 1970 Through 1989
Summary of Significant Floods, 1970 Through 1989, by Year

http://ks.water.usgs.gov/Kansas/pubs/reports/wsp.2502.sum77.html

COLUMBIA FLOOD OF 1977 -

A drought that had plagued the Pacific Northwest throughout the year was broken with November and December storms. The storms caused large amounts of rain and flooding in three separate events during the 2 months. Twelve Washington counties were declared Federal disaster areas (Washington State Department of Community, Trade and Economy, 1995) (U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 1978c). Northern Washington was affected by the December 2-3 flood, which resulted in five deaths and $14.8 million in damages. Southern Washington and northern Oregon experienced flooding on three different occasions. Flooding occurred in the Cowlitz River Basin in southwest Washingon and along the Columbia River in Oregon on November 25, December 2-3, and December 13-15. Flooding in the Willamette River Basin of Oregon occurred on November 25 and December 13-15. These floods caused $16.2 million in damages in the lower Columbia River Basin and along coastal drainages in Oregon

(U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, 1978c).
Selected References for 1977

Paulson, R.W., Chase, E.B., Roberts, R.S., and Moody, D.W., compilers 1991, National water summary, 1988-89-Hydrologic events and floods and droughts: U.S. Geological Survey Water-Supply Paper 2375, 591 p.

____1978c, Post flood report, November-December 1977 floods in Portland District, Oregon and Washington: Portland District, Oregon, 106 p.

[snowmman 3]

interesting document here:

http://www.usace.army.mil/publications/misc/un24/c-15.pdf

page 9 describes Portland District floods and flood control.

Heavy winter rains in '71 and '72

'72 floods in northwest/west Oregon.
'72 flood prevention effort. Temporary sand plug at the lower end of the Columbia Slough in Portland, to prevent flooding of North Portland neighborhoods.
100,000 cubic yards of sand spread over the railroad embankment west of Delta Park golf course. They say these two things helped prevent flooding.

page 10 Jan '74 had flooding
Nov,Dec '77 had flooding, as you say.

So: the Columbia may have had high water levels in '72 and '74 also.

[georger 247]

Quote

interesting document here:

http://www.usace.army.mil/publications/misc/un24/c-15.pdf

page 9 describes Portland District floods and flood control.

Heavy winter rains in '71 and '72

'72 floods in northwest/west Oregon.
'72 flood prevention effort. Temporary sand plug at the lower end of the Columbia Slough in Portland, to prevent flooding of North Portland neighborhoods.
100,000 cubic yards of sand spread over the railroad embankment west of Delta Park golf course. They say these two things helped prevent flooding.

page 10 Jan '74 had flooding
Nov,Dec '77 had flooding, as you say.

So: the Columbia may have had high water levels in '72 and '74 also.

Reply> Thanks Snowmman. This helps.

Georger

[skyjack71 0]

I am not up at 4 AM in the morning for my health.


I have repeatedly said the name Knutson or Knutsen or something similar had a meaning. Try Smokejumper (only for a short time), try lived in Portland, try worked for Boeing. NOTE: I did say worked for BOEING.

I have told the FBI over and over and over there was a connection with this name and Duane and the skyjacking. I think I found it, but it is UP to the FBI to check it out.

If Carr is not reading this then it is up to you guys to get him up. If I can't sleep then why should he.

I have taken the FBI from hay fields to one bail of hay - If they can't do it from here on - then SHAME on them. Maybe they have been ordered to look the other way for 37 yrs now.

Thanks Snowman - you didn't have a clue what you handed me. Only someone who knows what they are lookingfor would have seen it. Maybe it is just one of those straws in that bail, but I will put money on this one.

That is not the only thing I have found in the last few wks...maybe it is a good thing when the computer goes down.

Georger - the flood thing has been gone over and over and over and over. No flood waters put that money on Tena's bar.

PS. The FBI also never checked out the shoe shine guy in the airport. The one who moved to N.Orleans yrs later......

When you think you have lost something or lost your way - retrace your steps......I have done a lot of that recently.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[377 22]

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Maybe they have been ordered to look the other way for 37 yrs now.

Jo,

Glad to see you back, but your statements implying a deliberate FBI cover up leave me repeatedly shaking my head. Why would the FBI hide Cooper's identity, especially if Duane were Cooper? Give us a credible reason. What enduring government interest would support a cover up conspiracy as late as 2008?

I think if the FBI knew who Cooper was they'd say so. The fact that the case remains unsolved is a lingering embarrassment to the agency. Also, Larry Carr is just as eager to solve the case as you are, perhaps more so as solving it would enhance his professional standing tremendously. The person who solves the Cooper case will be famous. You two just disagree 180 degrees on Duane's role in the crime and probably always will.

The FBI has done some shady things, like COINTELPRO and spreading info on MLK's sexual affairs, but they get accused of more dirt than they actually do. For decades they have been accused of framing up the Rosenberg atomic spy case which resulted in executions. Just in the last few days evidence has come out to show that military secrets regarding anti aircraft gun laying radar were passed to the USSR by David Greenglass and Julius Rosenberg. True, the indictment specified atomic bomb secrets, but espionage apparently was committed by two of the principal defendants. Ethel Rosenberg's involvement appears to have been passive, just knowing and failing to report. She was executed for being married to a spy.

Jo, please just explain why, if the FBI knew who Cooper was or even might be, they would cover it up in late 2008?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Ckret 0]

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There were no belly bands given with the chest chutes.

Ckret, some questions when you find time:

1) any thoughts on the white cord/line on the side straps of the chest chute that you have? Were they there before Cooper got it? Or did Cooper put them on? or is it just unknown?

I could imagine that someone before Cooper might have tried to jury-rig a belly-band..but it's odd that at least one of the white cords appears frayed, as if cut.

2) are there cords inside the chest container? (cut?) if so: what color?

3) Can you confirm whether a rip was found, or not, for the chest container?

The handle is with the chest pack, it just wasn't in the photo. The cords in the container are white and were cut by Cooper when he removed the chute from the container

[Orange1 0]

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If Carr is not reading this then it is up to you guys to get him up.

Huh?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

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Everyone has an accent (phonetic signature).

yeah... which is why there was a big debate about "no accent" which (IIRC) most seemed to accept as meaning "no identifiable regional accent" (i.e. not no "foreign" accent).

Prove it! Prove your distinction.

Attitude is not Proof.

Find us one thing anyone on the planet has ever said or discovered or published as a study in the entire history of the Universe that proves your assertion.

It boils down to personal opinion.

But here is why I pursued this, not for self vidication
that I am right and you are WRONG, but for some
larger purpose and association which might in the scheme of things bear fruit and lead to something beyond mere "personal opinions and attitudes", for a change.

We were discussing flight skeds. It was found by
Snowmman that prior to 8/1/71 there was no PDX
to SEA flite at the time Cooper took his flight. Coop[s
flight was a late (perhaps special holiday) addition.
So, where did Cooper LEARN of the new flight sked
or was his choice of that flight pure coincidence?

My thought was he might have learned of the sked in Minneapolis if skeds are made and printed in Minneapolis. I realise this is a longshot but what the heck! Maybe he lived at Minneapolis? Maybe he worked for NWA at Minneapolis. He did say "get the plane on the road" WHICH MAY have some link to midwestern idioms, but since this is NOT a Midwestern idiom then obvious this line of thinking is wrong.

Undoubtedly Cooper learned of the sked change at Portland the minute he walked in to buy a ticket. He got the enxt flight available, that is all that happened. He was intending to take the 5:00pm flight but got the 3:00pm flight instead. He didnt care which flight he took. Cooper had not done
any prior research. Just got lucky. Cooper was going to hijack a turkey vulture and milk a cobra if necessary on that particular day ... if somebody would bail him out of his financial problems and make him a hero in the media.

All from: "get this plane on the road" !

Thanks! Case solved.

Georger

[snowmman 3]

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We were discussing flight skeds. It was found by
Snowmman that prior to 8/1/71 there was no PDX
to SEA flite at the time Cooper took his flight. Coop[s
flight was a late (perhaps special holiday) addition.
So, where did Cooper LEARN of the new flight sked
or was his choice of that flight pure coincidence?

Hi georger. I know what you're saying..but just
to be painfully accurate, about what we know, and what we're guessing at (on flight itineraries)

... the only skeds we have so far is 1) the 1963 sked I previously posted that didn't have 305 like we want, and 2) the sked that became active on 8/1/71 that also didn't have 305 like we want, although it was "close"

It's possible, 305, as flown on 11/24/71 never showed up on a schedule they printed, although that seems unlikely.

So we're guessing a new schedule, maybe active 9/1/71 or 10/1/71 or 11/1/71 or the week of thanksgiving should have 305 as reported flown.

The stop in Missoula is in news accounts. I guess we don't know for sure 305 really stopped in Missoula. 305 definitely went from Portland to Seattle though on 11/24/71. and that's not in the 8/1/71 sked.
(Missoula isn't in the 8/1/71 sked either). Spokane is in the 8/1/71 sked, so as reported in news accounts, 305 probably stopped in Spokane before Portland.

I've mentioned "why not start in Spokane?" before.

you could imagine Cooper could even have hijacked 305 in Spokane..picked up stuff in Portland, and jumped going north...but If he said "go to mexico" from portland, maybe he wouldn't have gotten his desired DZ? (edit) maybe he also had concerns about chutes and money being available in Portland.

He could have hijacked a Spokane to Seattle flight, but maybe one wasn't available that night. (edit) or maybe Spokane to Seattle was 707?

I guess it all depends on how much planning you think Cooper did or didn't do. If he did a lot of planning, then examining all of these issues in detail might give clues to where he was from, or not.

I'm questioning the WA resident theory.

[leroydb 0]

I personally "think" the FBI and everyone else know that the skydiving community knows.. its the best kept secret.... I wish I knew.... the money would be worth a alot more now...

Leroy


..I knew I was an unwanted baby when I saw my bath toys were a toaster and a radio...

[snowmman 3]

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I personally "think" the FBI and everyone else know that the skydiving community knows.. its the best kept secret.... I wish I knew.... the money would be worth a alot more now...

Is this Leroy Jenkins?

in any case, that's a good theory, but why would the skydiving community know? That doesn't make sense. Can you make it make sense?

[Orange1 0]

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Everyone has an accent (phonetic signature).

yeah... which is why there was a big debate about "no accent" which (IIRC) most seemed to accept as meaning "no identifiable regional accent" (i.e. not no "foreign" accent).

Prove it! Prove your distinction.

Attitude is not Proof.

Find us one thing anyone on the planet has ever said or discovered or published as a study in the entire history of the Universe that proves your assertion.

Hey, calm down I didn't "assert" anything... I was pointing out a previous discussion had come to a different conclusion. You have come to a different one, and that's cool, and in the absence of a recording of his voice we have no way of knowing which is right...like so much else in this case. Now go take 10 deep breaths, or something

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[georger 247]

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Quote

Quote

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Everyone has an accent (phonetic signature).

yeah... which is why there was a big debate about "no accent" which (IIRC) most seemed to accept as meaning "no identifiable regional accent" (i.e. not no "foreign" accent).

Prove it! Prove your distinction.

Attitude is not Proof.

Find us one thing anyone on the planet has ever said or discovered or published as a study in the entire history of the Universe that proves your assertion.

Hey, calm down I didn't "assert" anything... I was pointing out a previous discussion had come to a different conclusion. You have come to a different one, and that's cool, and in the absence of a recording of his voice we have no way of knowing which is right...like so much else in this case. Now go take 10 deep breaths, or something

REPLY> I can hardly believe Tina didnt say more about what she and Cooper talked about, if they did talk over the hours. Maybe its in her interview notes?


Georger

[skyjack71 0]

The FOIA reveals little conversation between Cooper and Tina, yet we all know that more had to have been said in the time they had together. SO MUCH has been removed from that file that it is useless.

If it was Tina that spoke to me on the phone that day a few yrs ago - more had to have been said. I don't remember the exact words, but she indicated he was a very sad person - I would think it not possible to form such an opinion regarding a persons state of mind unless there was more conversation than the public has been told by the FBI or in the FOIA.

I am perhaps one of the few individuals to have had the opportunity to speak with Tina (if it really was her). The only one who has ever said it might not be Tina was the obnoxious Galen Cook in 2 of this phone calls to me after he had bugged me for 4 yrs for her address and phone number which I NEVER gave to him.

I assumed he was pissed because I refused to divulge a confidence and a promise I made to her.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[happythoughts 0]

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What enduring government interest would support a cover up conspiracy as late as 2008?

Duane was part of the "JFK deal".

JFK was seeing Marilyn Monroe. Joe DiMaggio, a professional baseball player, was married to Marilyn.
An enraged, jealous husband...
A pitchers mound is sometimes referred to as "a grassy knoll".
How many hints do people need? The truth has been yelling at us.

However, it was a time of "healing". The Bay of Pigs fiasco.
The beginnings of the VN war. Joe DiMaggio was an American icon and the country needed its heroes. The coverup was for the good of the country.

I'll bet that there are strong links between Duane and baseball that are being suppressed. Did he watch baseball? Are there photos of him playing baseball? Did the FBI ever possess pictures of Duane wearing a baseball hat? Did he sometimes run or walk during the daytime?

Yes, Duane may have provided the rifle used by Joe on the grassy knoll.
There... I said it.

[ltdiver 3]

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[Orange1 0]

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What enduring government interest would support a cover up conspiracy as late as 2008?

Duane was part of the "JFK deal".

JFK was seeing Marilyn Monroe. Joe DiMaggio, a professional baseball player, was married to Marilyn.
An enraged, jealous husband...
A pitchers mound is sometimes referred to as "a grassy knoll".
How many hints do people need? The truth has been yelling at us.

However, it was a time of "healing". The Bay of Pigs fiasco.
The beginnings of the VN war. Joe DiMaggio was an American icon and the country needed its heroes. The coverup was for the good of the country.

I'll bet that there are strong links between Duane and baseball that are being suppressed. Did he watch baseball? Are there photos of him playing baseball? Did the FBI ever possess pictures of Duane wearing a baseball hat? Did he sometimes run or walk during the daytime?

Yes, Duane may have provided the rifle used by Joe on the grassy knoll.
There... I said it.

You left out the bit where every new recruit into the FBI has to take a blood oath to keep every previous conspiracy covered up into eternity as well...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.