DB Cooper

[snowmman 3]

Ah! Secret data from those who accuse others of secrets...let it rain!

[snowmman 3]

I think we've bought into this myth of "everyone looked like Cooper then" with no data.

I've been able to dig up a bunch of photos of people of roughly interesting ages, from '66 thru '71
I'm wondering if it'd be interesting to put a collage of 100 or so males together.

My guess is, based on the way people discuss this, is that we don't have a common understanding of what people looked like then. Or we've forgotten.

I mention this, because my opinion is that people latch onto photos of Gossett and Christiansen just because they haven't seen photos of people from the '60s in a long time.

Example: the way Jo latched onto those photos I produced that were random off the web.

It goes to my belief that people are incapable of matching suspect photos to the composite drawings.

I have no idea if that is true or not. It's just a thought I've been having.

[georger 247]

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Snowmman said:
I'll give you a secret goal. I took the goals of this forum to heart, dug up what I thought was a good suspect that met my understanding of a good profile. No not the first one I discussed with you Sluggo.

Ok Snowmman - now you know how I feel, but I don't resort being as offensive as you get when you get our of sorts.

Before this forum gets shut down I want to clarify something.

Reply> As I said before, you are "one-dimensional"

Everything below except the spelling was you posted
already... and you think Sluggo has come to your defense. You're in for a surprise. Always one-
dimensional!



I met Ed Huran in 1978 - he was working for American Income in Co. at that time. The first time I met him he was ill.

Then there was a convention with a date on the back of the pictures 1981. I really don't remember when or where the picture was made - but the pictures in the set are a convention. Duane did go back to American Income for a short period of time later on - so this is where the picture came into things.

There was a high ranking official in some of the pics - who had the nick name Kissy - because he liked to kiss everyone. I remember that but not where the picture was made - location wise.

My first contact with Ed was in Denver - when Duane went for his medication.

The second contact was the convention 1980 or 1981 - location unknown. I did ask Ed how his health was at that time and he seemed to be doing well, but still had problems with his diabetic situation. This is when I took his picture and( he was very reluctant to my doing that.) I had no other exchange with him during the entire convention.

Hope that clears the Ed thing up.


Knutsen or Knutson - I just know it was a name mention to me by Duane when we were in WA before we got to Seattle. He pointed down a road - the said there was a tavern there - this was Dollar Corner. He said we were not going there, but he used to know this man there.

WELL, there is a Tavern there and I was there in 2001. If the guys were not bullshiting me there was a store there which was at one time was owned or run by a man with this name. So Duane didn't lie about that but I could never find anything out about this man.

If someone wants to help that lives in Washington - check the property assessors office for anyone owning property there by that name or the records office for anyone having owned or run a business by that name in Dollars Corner. In 1971 - it may have had 5 building so it wouldn't be a lot of work for someone living there with time on their hands. I will even pay for your gas and time.

[georger 247]

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Georger states:

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If Duane was part of a search in the Orchards area,
then that changes everything. Was he physically able to do this, kidney disease and all? For man that was supposedly very sick, he sure gets around.

I do not think Duane was part of a search in the Orchards area - he was working in Georgia. I disagree with this - because that would not support all the other things Duane told me and showed me. How could an obsession about Cooper explain how well he knew Washington? How can an obsession materialize in the form of a ticket stub, a plane ticket and a bag? The only answer anyone has for this are that I have to be delusional or I am lieing......

In regards to Duane's health. Please talk to your Dr about Polycystic renal disease and the early stages. This disease is a hereditary disease

Rep> Jesus Christ Jo! Weve been through all of this before. Remember? I am the one who brought it up
and you had to defend against it. ..... go back
and read past scripts. Sorry. Get a medical license!
(and get some counseling !)

Georger, xx, xxx, xx, xxx,









that moves in stages (they did not understand the stages when he was first diagnosed and the prognosis was always presented as rather grim in those days).

Duane led a very normal life and he was a very strong man - for many yrs. When I met him in 1977 he was doing fine - on medications for high blood pressure, but very strong. The disease made a stage progression during our marriage - at this time in 1986 they placed a shunt in his arm for diaylsis which he did NOT need until 1990. This is how unpredictable the progression is of this disease.

He was a very lucky man - what was a death sentence by most standards in the 60's and very early 70's was a disease that took major and giant steps in the medical field during the next few yrs.

I will agree that in my 13 yrs there are times I have to make a guess just like the rest of you as to the actual incident, but I disagree that I am mis-interperting any of the things Duane said. I am definitely not making it up and I am not delusional.

I am the one who was there by his side over the yrs - all 17 of them. I knew this man and none of you did, but then I didn't really know this man did I? But I knew him better than anyone else. Finding some of his secrets such as the John Collins ID and his admission of having been in jail - helped me to understand him more during those last 5 yrs...but nothing changes what he showed me and what he told me thru out the 17 yrs marriage - things that I do NOT feel that I am mis-interpreting,

In any given incident - everyone will have a different view of certain facts and what these things mean.
I can't take you into my mind and my memory - and inside of this man who told me "I'm Dan Coooper". All I can do is relate what I do know and what I can surmise or guess beyond that. Things I have learned about Duane along with the many strange co-incidences that came to the surface...lead me down only one road. I cannot take the physical evidence out of my memory and I don't know what happened to it. Maybe someone needed to have checked out the man who bought the van. If there was money in that Van would you have told the FBI about it if you had already spent it (remember they didn't talk to him until 2 yrs after he bought the vehicle)?

The friend of Duane's still stands by his story that he told Pasternac in 2000 - that Duane had 50K in cash - several different demominations. There is also a mention of 50K he had put away mentioned in a letter from 1990.
Strange that the money is mentioned in a letter of 1990 ( I did not even read this letter until a few days ago - I just didn't want to go back to that time).

All of this regarding the money, the ticket, the stub, the bag, an unexplained airline ticket charged to the credit card, his doing a disappearing act on his friend for 2 days leaving the friend to run the concession all by himself in Tallahassee - all of this during the time right after Duane obtained a drivers license with his alias on it. If you were me what would you think when he tells you 5 yrs later that he was Dan Cooooper?

How would your have felt if you wife didn't grasp who Dan Cooper was when she was the last person you could tell? If you were in that wife's shoes 1 yr and 2 months later when she accidental finds out who Dan Coooper was - what would you think? What would you believe?

I am not asking any of you to believe Duane was Cooper - but what I have asked for is your help. Such as what Snowmman did regarding Ed Huran. The Ed he found was not the Ed I had been looking for. I had found that Ed before, but you never know when someone will come up with something new.

Anyone is free to make their own case regarding what they think Duane did. I am the one who was there by his side for 17 yrs.

[georger 247]

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There was no reason for the FBI to necessarily publicize every area they searched or every little thing they did, I don't see a that an unpublicized search necessarily means it was "secret". Like that thing about a shoe being found that someone mentioned a while ago.

Maybe all it means (unpublicized) is that they didn't find anything...?

Reply> has everyone lost their marbles here?
I didnt say it was secret. I didnt say the FBI searched. I said "R U M O R S - of". Three
separate series of rumors of searches.

I need a secretary!

[skyjack71 0]

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Jo just said:

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Knutsen or Knutson - I just know it was a name mention to me by Duane when we were in WA before we got to Seattle. He pointed down a road - the said there was a tavern there - this was Dollar Corner. He said we were not going there, but he used to know this man there.

WELL, there is a Tavern there and I was there in 2001. If the guys were not bullshiting me there was a store there which was at one time was owned or run by a man with this name. So Duane didn't lie about that but I could never find anything out about this man.

Jo: this is different than what you said before. You said before:

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"I have repeatedly said the name Knutson or Knutsen or something similar had a meaning. Smokejumper (only for a short time), try lived in Portland, try worked for Boeing. NOTE: I did say worked for BOEING.

Is there additional information about Boeing, Portland or Smokejumping? Or was that just theorizing you were doing. I can't tell.

(edit) on the Hurand photo

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There was a high ranking official in some of the pics

What exactly is a "high ranking official". Can you name the position/title? I don't see why you threw that in.

The parts about Boeing and smokejumping was ME asking and looking for what connection this name had to do with Duane. Not theorizing - but thinking out loud hoping someone would hear me and might bring it together.

By 'High Ranking Official" - I just did not want to spell out who the man was or his position in the company - he does have living relatives I am sure. It did not meant to be evasive - and NO it is not what you are thinking. He was an individual who was high up in the COMPANY - I would have to go back to the tax records to even be sure of the name of company the convention was for. We were working 2 or 3 companies at that time.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

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The parts about Boeing and smokejumping was ME asking and looking for what connection this name had to do with Duane. Not theorizing - but thinking out loud hoping someone would hear me and might bring it together.

ok thanks for the clarification. The way you worded it, I interpreted it as if I said "Cooper! The Icelandic Girls! Wall Street!".....and it meant that I knew there was a connection between all three, and was trying to tell you that.

There is no such connection.

(edit)
"who was high up in the COMPANY"

Yes, it's much more impressive with capital LETTERS!

(edit)
Although I'm still scratching my head on how I misunderstood this: (a double BOEING reference also)

"NOTE: I did say worked for BOEING."

Forgive me for thinking you were just making stuff up.

[Orange1 0]

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If the FBI thought for 13 years (it was really only 7) that there might have been (an element of) truth in Jo’s story, isn’t that prima fascia evidence that there was, at the minimum, something that held their interest?

yes, presumably the deathbed confession plus other stuff (including Jo's continued haranguing). then they investigated. then they didn't find anything to back up the theory that it was duane. just like they have investigated many other suspects and come up with nothing. ...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

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Reply> has everyone lost their marbles here?
I didnt say it was secret. I didnt say the FBI searched. I said "R U M O R S - of". Three
separate series of rumors of searches.

I need a secretary!

No, you need some context My post wasn't in response to you, it was in response to Snow suggesting Sluggo was going all secretive...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[skyjack71 0]

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So, one day ago you posted angry bemoaning just "being screwed" and suckered by people on a book and movie deals. Then you deleted that post.

So, were you lying then, or now, or both? Or just
mixed up? ("The Presidnet can't lie" - Nixon)

No - but it was not what you think.
If I try to make a post and correct it - like using spell check, I loose the whole post. So I post and then go back to correct it.

I was mad at someone - it was not me having a book or movie deal. I thought I was getting sucker punched by being used for information. I have given no one permission to use me or my pictures because no one has met the standards I would impose (nor have I sought out anyone). This
means no filthy words other than the ones used in the act itself and it has to be something you would allow your 15 yr old to read.

Until I find that needle in the hay stack - anything done would just be another Wannabe.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

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The parts about Boeing and smokejumping was ME asking and looking for what connection this name had to do with Duane. Not theorizing - but thinking out loud hoping someone would hear me and might bring it together.

ok thanks for the clarification. The way you worded it, I interpreted it as if I said "Cooper! The Icelandic Girls! Wall Street!".....and it meant that I knew there was a connection between all three, and was trying to tell you that.

There is no such connection.

(edit)
"who was high up in the COMPANY"

Yes, it's much more impressive with capital LETTERS!

(edit)
Although I'm still scratching my head on how I misunderstood this: (a double BOEING reference also)

"NOTE: I did say worked for BOEING."

Forgive me for thinking you were just making stuff up.

All of this came after I learned a man who worked for Boeing had been investigated and I am having a hard time holding all of this in my brain. I couldn't remember his name and still don't know what it was....for some reason I wanted to put this Knuteson with the Boeing guy. I have been looking for anything on this name that connects to the Cooper and jumping. Sorry but I jump all over the place with this - there is so much to say and so much to do and so little time.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[georger 247]

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Americans are search-happy. The media plays its role in keeping the mystique going. Plus, for many its just fun.

yup.

another thing I realized, is that our ability to reach out and touch people, is limited by our search tools. A random guess is that less than 20% of "good" suspects could even be listed by us. (p.s. I kind of laugh at the skydivers who've bragged about being pseudo-investigated! I am whuffo, so I can say that!)

Looking at all the "facts" in the Cooper case, it's easy to make a case for the likelihood that our "tools" can't detect him.

So getting all serious about it, is kind of a joke.

The most likely outcome is not knowing. If it ever becomes known, it's going to be sheer dumb luck, (coupled with some effort). But luck predominating. Or Cooper wanting to be caught. That's kind of my thing. If he's alive, wanting to be caught at his current age.

If dead, then it's just hopeless.

agree. Tools are no better than the data fed into them. No data, no output. HAL even knew that.

There is data which would narrow the search
but we dont have it, and anecdotal claims from
biased supporters is hardly fungible data.

Make no mistake, Jo has a vested interest in everything she is doing whether Duane was Cooper
or not. But her evidence is all anecdotal with not
one placard or Cooper bill or anything else of a
non-anecdotal nature in the box. She can stomp
and flame and whimper all she wants with ten-thousand defenders ... it comes down to the same
central factoid every time and it looks like it will
never be anything more.

I am surprised Sluggo would fall in so deep.

Georger

[georger 247]

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georger,

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That anyone could have harranged the FBI and others the way Jo Weber has for the last 13+ years is damned near beyond the pale, in my book.

All because she merely wants to know the truth about a husband ?

There must be more to this! Tell me there is!?

Or do I have the wrong impression and cant' read written when its wrote, as Popeye said?

Okay…… [Sluggo taking a deep breath] At the expense of (once again) being accused of being secretive (or conspiratory), just think about your statement.

Okay…. Thought about it?



Jo, did not harrang the FBI (initially). I’m not talking about post 2003.

If the FBI thought for 13 years (it was really only 7) that there might have been (an element of) truth in Jo’s story, isn’t that prima fascia evidence that there was, at the minimum, something that held their interest?

Jo went to Himmelsbach on Doug Pasternak’s suggestion. Himmelsbach “greased the wheels” for Jo to make official contact with the Bureau in 2000. The Bureau came and got personal items (for DNA analysis) in April, 2003 and considered Duane a viable suspect until 2007, after the DNA didn’t match the DNA from 4 unknown individuals on a tie assumed to be left by Cooper and not handled with a “Chain of Custody” consistent with DNA sampling (from 1971 – 2003). I guarantee that the Bureau didn’t “want to know the truth about her husband”. They wanted to close NORJAK.

I have a lot more to say…. But it’s late here (CST) and I’m going to bed.

Try this, ask Jo for permission to allow me to scan some of the data I have about Duane and post it here. If she says yes, then you can make an informed decision about the validity of her claims. Don’t misunderstand me … I don’t think you will come to the same conclusion as Jo, but I think you will find it interesting.

More in an e-mail tomorrow…


Orange1
The term “unpublished” was not meant to imply a conspiracy or “special secrecy”. That area was then (as now) a relatively populated area. The FBI would not have wanted the public pouring over private property looking for $200,000. Remember this was prior to the Ingram find. I should have explained better, but it was a long post and I was trying to be brief. I think we can assume that in all cases, they didn’t find anything.


Sluggo_Monster [Out]

Sluggo, it is all anecdotal evidence. Not hard evidence.

You can't speak for the Bureau. That they kept
Weber on file until 2007 could have been due to
a thousand different reasons - it doesnt even mean
he was viable, just still on file active. Maybe they
closed out 50 people that year. I dont know and
you dont know either (Im guessing). I'm not going
to speak for the FBI or try to second guess them.
I frankly have too much respect for them for that,
so call that my bias.

Sure. There are many coincidences. Many uncanny
coincidences from the current perspective. Perspectives change! How many candidates have there been to date? All had some level of coincidence or association going for them. That is
what defines a candidate. Weber seems to have
many coincidences in his favour, all anecdotal with not one piece of hard physical evidence except
for rumors of hard evidence.

There is just so much I can do, Sluggo. Unless
God drops something on me so I can do more
I cannot do more. Even then I am not sure I could do more. This is bigger than all of us. This thing is
damnd near Biblical and quite frankly from a management level I can understand why some people might want it to go away. Its a resource eater! I play in the band and I can only play the
music Im given. I dont direct the band.

[377 22]

Come on Jo, give Sluggo permission to post the scans he mentioned.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[snowmman 3]

Georger eloquently said, amongst other things:
"I'm not going to speak for the FBI or try to second guess them. I frankly have too much respect for them for that, so call that my bias."

I know I have nothing to form an opinion of the FBI on, other than maybe what I read in the news.

Even the Ckret interaction isn't much to form an opinion on. If anything, he comes off as a little flip and arrogant.

I know I'm arrogant. When I am I don't try to hide it. Mostly cause I have the luxury of not having to. Ckret is obviously constrained by his job.

With respect to language I use, I can never understand this current "cutesy" stuff people do. i.e. when they want to say something, and there's the perfect word for it, rather than using that word, they'll substitute characters, or say "fark you" (I've read that on cnn.com!) ...and it's all cutesy like you're saying something but not really saying it.

It's much better to just say the exact words that convey the most meaning at all times. These people who think changing the words, changes peoples thoughts, are just nuts. People's thoughts are what written expression is about...Conveying them concisely should be the goal.

[snowmman 3]

I mentioned that I thought our analyses had been trivial.
Here's a by-example:

If smokejumping background was a theory, we should be able to express the range of years Cooper would have had smokejumping training, based on the age range of people that got training in certain years, and Cooper's estimated age. It's biased towards younger ages, but we'd have to cover the full range of ages that "signed up for training"...

That would give us a window to say "if Cooper was involved with smokejumping, it would be in this range of years".

I've not done that.

But smokejumping training is all static line jumping, right? (back then). So it's actually not a lot more interesting than static line paratroop training.

If we think there is a Cooper skill requirement, then that background would have been in the '50s, and seems too far back compared to the time of the hijack.

So then the rational question is "how many smokejumpers from that era, transitioned into freefall skydiving"?

Now if we want to say Cooper had no skills and was just a random dude, then we'll never find him. So necessarily, for our conversation to possibly lead to Cooper, it has to assume Cooper has some skills in his past that we can track, based on the hijack.

Not saying he did, but otherwise there's nothing we can contribute.

Enough, we can talk about Duane's shoe size some more.

Oh: I did have one thought. I always wondered whether Cooper's white shirt had long sleeves visible as cuffs under his jacket. I suppose the overcoat prevented seeing that.

[Orange1 0]

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I have given no one permission to use me or my pictures because no one has met the standards I would impose (nor have I sought out anyone). This means no filthy words other than the ones used in the act itself and it has to be something you would allow your 15 yr old to read.

I've just figured out why this bothered me. We are talking about something that would be, or at least presented as, non-fiction. Since when does this type of book lend itself to gratuitous bad language? I mean, we are talking DB Cooper and not "snakes on a plane", right? I haven't read any of the other DB Cooper books, were those full of filthy words?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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I have given no one permission to use me or my pictures because no one has met the standards I would impose (nor have I sought out anyone). This means no filthy words other than the ones used in the act itself and it has to be something you would allow your 15 yr old to read.

I've just figured out why this bothered me. We are talking about something that would be, or at least presented as, non-fiction. Since when does this type of book lend itself to gratuitous bad language? I mean, we are talking DB Cooper and not "snakes on a plane", right? I haven't read any of the other DB Cooper books, were those full of filthy words?

Yes, the "novel" Ha-Ha-Ha had gratuitous porn-like writing.
I agree with you that it's odd if excessive sexual references or swearing creeps into writing, when it's not core to any central themes.

Oh, I just noticed one thing. The newspapers, as early as 11/25/71 quoted Scott as saying Cooper wanted to "get this show on the road".

I believe the transcripts later revealed the phrase to be "plane on the road" correct? I forget if Ckret said what the post-interviews revealed. (as opposed to the transcripts). Since the news articles, apparently quoting Scott, said "show on the road", I'm assuming that's as good as an FBI briefing, and that "show on the road" was what Cooper said.

In any case, the early printing of that, would mean that phrase could creep into the Cooper mythology from day 1.

(edit) New meme from Orange1!
Paul: Why exactly are there snakes on this plane?

[Orange1 0]

The transcript did say "...plane on the road".

Snow, are you sure that quote is verbatim? No f-words?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

I was just looking at the transcript, and it may be that the "show on the road" comment or "plane on the road"
was delivered over the intercom phone directly to the cockpit? It's not clear if it was said to Tina and relayed.

If so, there could have been a swear that only the person on the phone heard, and didn't relay?

Just thinking out loud.

Ckret said no swearing, but I forget the level of detail he provided, on whose testimony that description came from.

[Orange1 0]

no not that quote, the snakes on a plane one! (i just assumed it was from the movie?)

as in "i'm sick of these m...... snakes on this m...... plane!" (my favourite line from the movie )

hm, can we get Samuel Jackson to play Cooper in the movie version? we can just, um, exaggerate the "olive complexion" bit. after all, in shawshank redemption morgan freeman took the part of someone who in the novella was a red-headed irishman...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[snowmman 3]

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no not that quote, the snakes on a plane one! (i just assumed it was from the movie?)

AH!
yes it was from the movie. I had to look hard to find one without an f-bomb.

[377 22]

I still think Cooper knew that the 727 could deploy its ventral stairs in flight. He wanted them left down on takeoff either to to facilitate a very quick exit or to mask his exit point, but he did not appear to panic when informed that they had to be stowed up for takeoff. Very few people knew that a 727 could be jumped in 1971. If Cooper knew, how did he know? I think there is a Boeing connection somewhere. I know I am repeating myself but I think the FBI might not have run the Boeing matter into the ground in 71.

And since I am repeating myself, might as well mention the money find again. It smells fishier than a dead mackerel to me. Why no news from the money analysis? There was a hint that the money analysis does not support the finders' story. That would not shock me.

And Jo, come on, give Sluggo permission to put the scans up on this forum. If you are seeking truth and justice then show your cards. If the mighty Sluggo Monster is sticking his neck way way out defending you, give him some support. Look how hard he got hit already. I welcome your presence here Jo but I am not brave enough to defend you in a post as Sluggo was. Give him something to work with. It's only fair.

Come on Ckret, show us that Hollywood has not seduced you. Post something back here in your Internet hood where you used to roll before the limos showed up.

377

[skyjack71 0]

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Come on Jo, give Sluggo permission to post the scans he mentioned.

377

First some corrections need to be made in the post that was done regarding several things that are inaccurate.

Also he will need to go over with me what scans he wants to use - he has many and more I was supposed to send but I got them all mixed up with some other things.

As far as Knuetson - or however that name is spelled...as Snowmman pointed out I don't know exactly what it was, but it was something like that - it could have been Newton or Newston - almost any variation of that sound.
The only way to really know is to go to Dollars Corner and search the property records for 1944- 1971....also anyone owning or running a business in the area - I assume they had to have a license.
As I said before if someone lives in that area and wants to do the research I will pay for you to do it.

Doesn't anyone know the name of the Boeing man who was investigated in Portland as having been a suspect? Not the one Swomman mentioned (the genius).
This man lived in West Portland which would be where Duane mentioned "I used to know a man who lived over there" . At that time we were in the area of Wintler Park, but Not in the park. He was pointing West.

At the spot we went to on the Vancouver side the bank of the river was relative steep in 1979 with trees that were not more than 10 to 20 yrs old, plus lots of scrub trees (very young ones).

If you go west to Wintler Park the banks were not steep at all. There was a low incline through out the park, but just East of there the elevation of the bank climbs. When I went back in 2001 new home had been built along the river banks I believed Duane and I were in 1979.

I was told there was another area that you had to go back up on Evergreen and then go back to the River just East of that point that I did not ask the driver to take me to - perhaps I should have. I was told the two site had everything I described to the "Angel Udell" and the "River Lady". Would have been interesting to see if I was able to see the airport tower from the other location - then I would know which one it was. The place Duane took me too - trees and a slight bend obsured the tower, but he told me that it was there. I never knew where the tower was on the maps - I have been shown.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[snowmman 3]

Dear Night Clerk,

I hope you are lurking.
The FBI won't release your statement.
Jo won't release your statement, because Jo is part of the coverup.
I am your only hope.
Create an account here and PM me.
I will publish your statement and the truth will be revealed.

Yours in the Order,
snowmman

p.s.
Would you like to pet my iguana?