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The worst thing about the 1971 sketch was probably the sunglasses. Then the tie.

How many jumpers showed up at the DZ wearing a tie? Even today, how often? Do you know how many jumpers wear a tie at work? (Or what the women wear at work?)"



Jumpers come from all sorts of different work backgrounds (as a quick scan of the cars in any DZ lot will show you).
In any event, I'll bet more jumpers wore ties to work then than they do now, because more people wore ties. Think of that famous photo of Woodward and Bernstein in the Washington Post newsroom with their ties - how many journalists do you think wear ties to work these days??

377, hmm well... when you are bashing your head against a brick wall, bashing it harder doesn't soften the wall.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Tom YOU are wrong - Duane was far sighted - I was married to the man for 17 yrs - I should know something about him. This is the typical thing that takes facts and twists and twists and twists. NO one out there wants the truth - they just want the myth.

As for the Weber Sydrome - Gossett, Christiansen and Cooper all came after I went pubic. Why am I treated like someone with absolutely no rights - and yet, none of you knew Duane and can pretend to know more about him than I do.

Tom, if you can't keep an open mind about Weber then your analysis of the money will be tainted. You have let some of these people in this forum influence you - and you don't know who they really are. If you can believe that EVERY one of them is a specialitst in this or that - then you are MORE naive than I am.

As it stands you and I are the only 2 individuals in this forum who are actually known to all. All the rest are just words - sometimes mean and putting me down and other times understanding what I have been through. I

f they were in my shoes and they actually held specific things in their hands in regards to a crime that would later be confessed to by their relative or friend - WHAT would they be doing? How would they feel if someone called them dislusional.

NOT one of you has tried to find out how Duane came to possess these items. Just pretend your relative was the one you saw with the items and they made the confession. PUT yourself in my shoes for ONE day.

I won't be doing this much longer - it is destroying my life, but I know what I know - I am looking for the truth just like the some of you - others are only here to hear themselves or toot whatever abilities they can pretend to have or may have.

Somehow, someway I will prove this - I will not give up until the day I die.

Whatever Duane Weber's eyesight was in 1971 is not represented by what his eyesite was in 1993. I know that eyes change and as you age there is what I call a "crossover" period - such as I experienced. I don't know if that is true with far-sighted individual or all individuals. For a period of time I rarely wore my glasses.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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after a knife fight with a 70 year old plumber....

actually Thom Lyons, on his excellent web site, has posted a copy of his 1965 PCA license, and an apparently later PCA license. The two provide good info. Just provide link rather than copying Thom's stuff.
http://60sjumper.skydiveworld.com/pca.jpg

On the first (blue)
There is no photo, no height/weight/hair/eye stuff like the USPA license I posted from 1973.

One the second (orange)
there is photo, DOB, height, weight, eye, hair

I think we can date the 2nd PCA license. There are two examiner signatures, which would be required yearly? USPA started in 1967. I don't think Thom started before the '65 card?, so the orange PCA card is likely '66 and '67?

SO: what this tells us is that PCA cards, and then USPA, were tracking DOB, height, weight, eye, hair by '66? Is this what people remember? I wonder if there's a file at USPA from then with the info.
Who typed the cards? Where they typed at the main office and mailed to recipients??? How were the yearly stamps handled? At the main office?

Oh, and don't get excited about Thom: blue eyes, brown hair, and he was just 26 in 1971.
Although, thinking about Whitney, maybe that made him a PRIME SUSPECT in 1971. :) JOKE!

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So Snow, what bar did you find jumpers at? It used to be Gordon Biersch in P.A. on Wednesday nights.



I just got back from going to Home Depot.
And there's a van in front of me, with two orange ladders on the roof. ~16' extension ladders. White van. Didn't get a look at the guy.

There's two round stickers in the left rear window. I think one was USPA.
A bumper sticker that says "If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you"

Another sticker on the right rear window that said something about Skydiving.

I was literally just 3 feet behind this vehicle. It about 7:30 pm. He turned left. I didn't see where he went when I entered Home Depot. I should have gotten a photo, per Jo's lead.

So that's the closest I've ever come to a skydiver.
My heart is still going! I would have stayed in pursuit, but I remembered Ckret is off the thread...oh well.

:)



Snow,

Cooper is likely to be driving a wheelchair these days, not a van, don't you think?

There is a guy round these parts who has one of those monster pickup trucks jacked way up and it is plastered with skydiving and motocross decals. This guy has never done a solo jump. Maybe he is a motocross god, but I doubt it.

I only have a tiny (1.5 inch) Alti-2 sticker depicting only a skydiving altimeter face on my car. If you weren't a jumper you wouldn't know what it was. There is a local cop who jumps and it is there so he might think twice about ticketing me. Which is stronger, the brotherhood of jumpers or the desire to be a jerk with a badge? Haven't found out yet.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo, if you have any of his old glasses laying around, it's really easy to go to any optical place and have them read the script for you.



Duane died in 1995 and I donated almost everything to the Goodwill.
Remember he was dead for 1 yr and 2 months before I knew what he meant by "I'm Dan Cooper".

All I had left were a few items that didn't sell in a garage sale and some momentos I was keeping. I do have the script and if I can get to feeling well enough I will find it.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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or maybe talking to guys at DZs in '71 and asking "who do ya think?"



The FBI did precious little of that in the SF Bay Area. I don't know one jumper in this area who was queried by the feds. Too bad Wesley Snipes or Kenau Reeves wasn't in the FBI back then. They wouldn't just sit by the phone waiting for hot tips. They would have been all over it, jumping, investigating and raising hell. Oh yeah.

Georger asks what would rule Duane out? A solid alibi, just like McCoy had. But the person who might know something about his whereabouts on that fateful day seems to want him on the plane.

Reply> I think that's a very astute observation.
Simple. Elegant. Why didnt I think of that!

Georger

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Jo,

Did you ever figure out what that odd piece of hardware you sold at the garage sale was? If it was cut from a parachute harness and Duane owned it, you'd see a lot of interest here. Just wondering what it was.

Stay positive Jo. Everyone takes a few hits in this sandbox, but it's just words and the audience is tiny. Don't let it break you.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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How many time do I HAVE to tell you that Duane did not use glasses to drive for distance work - it was only things in a room that were our of focus - in the early yrs.

Later he had to go to bifocals because there were changes in his eyes. But in those early yrs he didn't like doing outside things with his glasses - because he could see things in a distance better without his glasses on.

We could be on a walk or riding thru Wyoming and he would see thing I couldn't see with my glasses on. He could always spot the deer and the fox I never got a glance of...this was in 1978 thru 1980. It was around 1982 that his eyesight started to change, but the hijacking was 11 yrs before that.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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There is a guy round these parts who has one of those monster pickup trucks jacked way up



well, i must confess i was in my alternate vehicle: '88 toyota pickup 4x4. Has kinda big tires, but wouldn't say extremely jacked up. It's kind of a beater. 6 cylinder though!

So you think I need to get a bunch of stickers? That would be good with the ladies? Can I just click somewhere at DZ.com to get them. Don't tell me they're only available at a real DZ? that would suck.

I need to design my "Cooper Lives" sticker. start selling those.

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As I recall all the typing and stamping was done at PCA/USPA HQ. Back in 68 it was located in Monterey CA of all places. You can call USPA HQ and see what archived membership material they have. They don't seem to have good historical records. They show no record of my membership from 68 yet I have copies of the Parachutist USPA magazine addressed to me from back then.

Thom Lyons would know a lot more than I do about early jumping.

You might check out the SCR database. It was the first national RW award. Seemed to me that most experienced jumpers from the 70s got an SCR number sooner or later. I got mine late, around 1978.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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As I recall all the typing and stamping was done at PCA/USPA HQ. Back in 68 it was located in Monterey CA of all places. You can call USPA HQ and see what archived membership material they have. They don't seem to have good historical records. They show no record of my membership from 68 yet I have copies of the Parachutist USPA magazine addressed to me from back then.

Thom Lyons would know a lot more than I do about early jumping.

377



The records may have been more complete in '71.
What we really need is a post from Ckret saying:

"In 1971, records were obtained from USPA going back to 1965 (or earlier?) and a list of suspects in the NW created that matched the physical description. They were all checked out, and confirmed not to be Cooper".

Without knowing what aspects of that statement are true or not true, spending time at USPA would be a waste.

I've noticed that Jo tried to create a myth that something like this was actually done, when she said we were looking at military-related folks, because all jumpers had been checked out. (I wonder how she knows that. Is Jo FBI/CIA?. If she says she is, then I'll know she's not. Or if georger says she is. Or if Tom says he's got an experiment that proves it :))

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Tom YOU are wrong - Duane was far sighted - I was married to the man for 17 yrs - I should know something about him. This is the typical thing that takes facts and twists and twists and twists. NO one out there wants the truth - they just want the myth.

As for the Weber Sydrome - Gossett, Christiansen and Cooper all came after I went pubic. Why am I treated like someone with absolutely no rights - and yet, none of you knew Duane and can pretend to know more about him than I do.

Tom, if you can't keep an open mind about Weber then your analysis of the money will be tainted. You have let some of these people in this forum influence you - and you don't know who they really are. If you can believe that EVERY one of them is a specialitst in this or that - then you are MORE naive than I am.

As it stands you and I are the only 2 individuals in this forum who are actually known to all. All the rest are just words - sometimes mean and putting me down and other times understanding what I have been through. I

f they were in my shoes and they actually held specific things in their hands in regards to a crime that would later be confessed to by their relative or friend - WHAT would they be doing? How would they feel if someone called them dislusional.

NOT one of you has tried to find out how Duane came to possess these items. Just pretend your relative was the one you saw with the items and they made the confession. PUT yourself in my shoes for ONE day.

I won't be doing this much longer - it is destroying my life, but I know what I know - I am looking for the truth just like the some of you - others are only here to hear themselves or toot whatever abilities they can pretend to have or may have.

Somehow, someway I will prove this - I will not give up until the day I die.

Whatever Duane Weber's eyesight was in 1971 is not represented by what his eyesite was in 1993. I know that eyes change and as you age there is what I call a "crossover" period - such as I experienced. I don't know if that is true with far-sighted individual or all individuals. For a period of time I rarely wore my glasses.



Then take Duane's eyeglass prescription to
sombody and report back. Scan the prescription
to Tom or post it here.

Stop your whinning and act like an adult for a change? You are the mench who started this, ja?

Georger

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There is a guy round these parts who has one of those monster pickup trucks jacked way up



well, i must confess i was in my alternate vehicle: '88 toyota pickup 4x4. Has kinda big tires, but wouldn't say extremely jacked up. It's kind of a beater. 6 cylinder though!

So you think I need to get a bunch of stickers? That would be good with the ladies? Can I just click somewhere at DZ.com to get them. Don't tell me they're only available at a real DZ? that would suck.

I need to design my "Cooper Lives" sticker. start selling those.



Snow,

If you really want to look OG, get on photoshop and make your own stickers using themes from old DZs.

Make some Issaquah stickers. I want one. Oh, and DEFINITELY a Boeing Skydive Club sticker, put a 727-100 in the middle or in my case, a Boeing 377.

The current DZ stickers mean nothing these days. Every tandem passenger gets one.

I'll be looking for your truck. If you make those special stickers, so might the FBI.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo must also clarify this diabetic issue she
first pronounced for Duane. Would also welcome clarification of his pooor gate (polio), his PKD
Pasternak said was very serious in 1971,



>:(>:(STOP THIS NOW. YOU ARE KILLING ME :(- Duane was NOT diabetic, Duane did not have poliio.

Duane did not have a limp in 1971.
In my 17 yrs with the man I was unaware of any limp. It was OTHERs who notice he walked differentlly. Duane had one hip just as I did higher than the other which required an adjustment in the hem line of the pants - the same as I did. I do not know if he had this problem in 1971.

Right now I am crying and hurting - you people are CRUEL and MEAN. You make up things to say about Duane. Even Sluggo couldn't get the facts straight just like you guys can't even keep the facts straight about Cooper.:(
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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I'll be looking for your truck. If you make those special stickers, so might the FBI.

377



heh! I'll drive up to the DZ and talk some smack about how the stickers are all from my Dad, and how when I was growing up, He told all these stories and I wanted to jump but he would never take me to the old DZ's for some reason...so he finally taught me all by himself...one hand flying the plane, the other pushing me out when I was 12.

That's why I was so confused when you guys talked about jumping like it was a tight social thing.

He always said "Man was born alone, Man was meant to jump alone". You mean maybe he was just messed up?

I guess just a weird coincidence.

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Air America Skydive Club
Takhli 1970



Man, if jumpers are as tight as people say here, who were those guys who static-lined the 727? Wouldn't they have bragging rights for life? I mean trivia-question-wise, they were first to jump a commercial jet? The C-141's were in play in the mid '60s, so military paratroops were jumping jets, and there were earlier tests right?

But a real commercial jet jump. They were first, right?

Wouldn't their money be no good at the bar, for life?
Why not take advantage of that?

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You might check out the SCR database. It was the first national RW award. Seemed to me that most experienced jumpers from the 70s got an SCR number sooner or later. I got mine late, around 1978.

377



I would probably use it opposite from the way you say. I'd be looking for jumpers that didn't progress in a way that might be considered "typical"...i.e. jumpers that didn't get a SCR number, or didn't advance to D, etc.

All those guys would be the normal folks. Looking for the messed up dude instead (if he existed in the records. Possibly not).

I'd spend more time poring over old records, than filming for the Today show! Unless the old records were already squeezed dry. Then I'd be on the Today show saying "The old records were squeezed dry..it's either someone who jumped without membership, or maybe a little military experience"..

Or maybe I'd just get on a thread at DZ.com and cross my fingers?

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Tom, if you can't keep an open mind about Weber then your analysis of the money will be tainted.



How on EARTH does an opinion on Duane affect a scientific analysis of the money?

You are going back to your old ways of "if people don't think Duane was Cooper I won't accept anything they say".

The only person this reflects badly on is you.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Air America Skydive Club
Takhli 1970



Man, if jumpers are as tight as people say here, who were those guys who static-lined the 727? Wouldn't they have bragging rights for life? I mean trivia-question-wise, they were first to jump a commercial jet? The C-141's were in play in the mid '60s, so military paratroops were jumping jets, and there were earlier tests right?

But a real commercial jet jump. They were first, right?

Wouldn't their money be no good at the bar, for life?
Why not take advantage of that?



I'd have thought you were right about bragging rights, but those Air America guys might be very tight lipped. You know, Eugene Hasenfus might have been one of the jumpers.

I am quite surprised that the first to jump a commercial jet weren't bragging all over the place. Maybe they were quite separated from the skydiving world and this 727 jump stuff was just some company business, no big deal.

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Maybe they were quite separated from the skydiving world and this 727 jump stuff was just some company business, no big deal.



Do you really believe that?

hey,maybe the FBI was looking in the wrong place.

Look at this:

Quote

....The procession of obsolete military planes in and out of Marana raised no eyebrows. Neither did the arrival of Forest Service parachutists. Sonora's work with the Forest Service included dropping smokejumpers, and only a few people in government were aware that the Forest Service smokejumper program cooperated closely with the CIA.

From the mid-1950s until the mid-1970s, the CIA actively recruited paramilitary personnel from the smokejumper program, particularly at the Forest Service's Region One fire base at Missoula, Mont., and a satellite base at McCall, Idaho. As many as one-fourth of the smokejumpers at those bases worked at least part time for the CIA.

According to Roberts, Intermountain divided its time between converting airplanes and developing new parachutes and parachute techniques for covert operations. Much of the parachute work involved dropping men and supplies into rugged, forested terrain -- exactly the kind of techniques the Forest Service had pioneered.

.........Garfield M. Thorsrud was one of five former Missoula smokejumpers who ended up running Intermountain. Dozens more would pass through the Intermountain base en route to destinations such as Laos and Cambodia.



And some interesting stuff about the CIA's "hide in plain sight" M.O. at Intermountain,and how CIA operated airlines put other guys out of business and then:
Quote


At first the CIA and the Pentagon tried to preserve secrecy by arranging contracts for companies that had enough information to blow the whistle. But with the lid about to pop, Richard Helms, then the director of central intelligence, ordered his agency in 1972 to get rid of several proprietaries, including Air America Inc., based on Taiwan; Southern Air Transport Inc. of Miami; and Intermountain Aviation.
.........



Latter might have been a good reason for a "grudge", except that it happened after the hijack.

The later stuff is also interesting, including navy &army personnel exercising under civilian cover there and a botched attempt to pass off a fatality as a civilian skydiving accident. (1983)

All the above from http://www.bollyn.com/index/?id=10684
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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How on EARTH does an opinion on Duane affect a scientific analysis of the money?

You are going back to your old ways of "if people don't think Duane was Cooper I won't accept anything they say".

The only person this reflects badly on is you



I came to the forum looking for help and all I have gotten is WHY he couldn't be Cooper. NOT one of you has tried to figure out the important things,

HOW AND WHY HE HAD THE TICKET AND THE STUB AND BAG.
The only thing you all say is I am dislusional and horrible horrible things. Not one person can offer any reason for the items I held in my hands other than to say - I was lieing or that I am dislusional.

NOT one person has made a concerted effort to identify that man (in Salt Lake City) and I have held this photos for yrs knowing it was important. but not how - knowing it is a clue to his past.

NOT one person is willing to help me with the missing yrs.

Not one person defends the fact that the FBI uses the statement of 1998 as evidence they (the FBI) did a complete investigation of Duane - and if they did WHY did the agent lie to me about his not being in McNeil or in the Army - when I had document in my hands to the contrary.

Not one of you has explained why the FBI told me that the serial number on Duane's Army file belonged to Wavy Greene. No one wants to address these things. Not one of you.

Not one of you talks about the 3 government employees (Federal Directors for General Services Administaration) who where on that plane and taken off separately from the other passengers.

Not one of you knows about a letter one of these men wrote to the FBI. Not one of you knows tht the letter acknowledged by the FBI was alter from the original letter.

These men boarded in Missoula.

Things the FBI wants things to go away and this forum has been a vehicle for these things to become things of the past - but, I will not die without putting these things out there to be studied - these are the things you guys need to explore..not WHY Weber couldn't be Cooper. But, what is wrong with the whole damn situation revolving around the 1971 skyjacking.

None of you are BRAVE enough to go up against the government - NOT one of you. There has been no excuse in the FBI keeping things like this out of the public eye.

A lot of lives where changed that night of the skyjacking - NOT one of you wants to address this either.
My life was change on May 24 1996 - 1yrs and 2 months after Duane died leaving me with a confession I didn't understand. Put your own mother in my shoes or your wife - would you make fun of her the way some of you do me.

If it were your mother wouldn't you be doing something to help her prove of disprove the things she saw? - would you call her a liar at every turn of the day?

All of the knowledge in this thread and you guys keep on putting me down rather than look at anything I ask about - you would rather rant on about trivial things that will not prove who Cooper was.

Did any ONE of you know about the letter and the Federal Employee on that plane???

How many thousands of posts have been made and NOT ONE of you has looked at some very obvious things regarding this case?

Sure the FBI doesn't want you to go there - it is opening up a can of worms they can't handle - the FBI wants to bury these things and over the yrs they have done a good job of just that - burying certain FACTs they don't want remembered. Facts they don't want discussed in this forum.

Now you know! Want their names?
Go dig them up yourself and while you are at it find the name of the Salt Lake guy - instead of using all this knowledge you guys have trying to find out how or if Cooper survived or died - go after the dirty truth about this rather vile and dirty criminal. Find out Why the FBi has never revealed cr down plays certain things about that day in 1971.
Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

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Incidentally I also searched in trying to find stuff about prisoners volunteering for smokejumper programs. The only success i found along those lines was in a movie script...

A number of smokejumpers became prisoners however - POWs in SE Asia to be exact once they were jumping there for Air America etfc. If anyone is interested in those stories I can post a couple of links.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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Maybe they were quite separated from the skydiving world and this 727 jump stuff was just some company business, no big deal.



Do you really believe that?

hey,maybe the FBI was looking in the wrong place.

Look at this:

Quote

....The procession of obsolete military planes in and out of Marana raised no eyebrows. Neither did the arrival of Forest Service parachutists. Sonora's work with the Forest Service included dropping smokejumpers, and only a few people in government were aware that the Forest Service smokejumper program cooperated closely with the CIA.

From the mid-1950s until the mid-1970s, the CIA actively recruited paramilitary personnel from the smokejumper program, particularly at the Forest Service's Region One fire base at Missoula, Mont., and a satellite base at McCall, Idaho. As many as one-fourth of the smokejumpers at those bases worked at least part time for the CIA.

According to Roberts, Intermountain divided its time between converting airplanes and developing new parachutes and parachute techniques for covert operations. Much of the parachute work involved dropping men and supplies into rugged, forested terrain -- exactly the kind of techniques the Forest Service had pioneered.

.........Garfield M. Thorsrud was one of five former Missoula smokejumpers who ended up running Intermountain. Dozens more would pass through the Intermountain base en route to destinations such as Laos and Cambodia.



And some interesting stuff about the CIA's "hide in plain sight" M.O. at Intermountain,and how CIA operated airlines put other guys out of business and then:
Quote


At first the CIA and the Pentagon tried to preserve secrecy by arranging contracts for companies that had enough information to blow the whistle. But with the lid about to pop, Richard Helms, then the director of central intelligence, ordered his agency in 1972 to get rid of several proprietaries, including Air America Inc., based on Taiwan; Southern Air Transport Inc. of Miami; and Intermountain Aviation.
.........



Latter might have been a good reason for a "grudge", except that it happened after the hijack.

The later stuff is also interesting, including navy &army personnel exercising under civilian cover there and a botched attempt to pass off a fatality as a civilian skydiving accident. (1983)

All the above from http://www.bollyn.com/index/?id=10684[/reply

]

VERY interesting Orange. You are getting some amazing stuff. Remember all the early speculation on this forum that Cooper might have been a smoke jumper? Who would have guessed of a possible link to
CIA SE Asia air activities?

What kind of coffee are you drinking? I want to switch brands. Yours works!

377
2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

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Jo,

It is not always easy to get meanings across in words with no non-verbal communication. But please know that the following is said with no malice at all, but rather with sympathy.

I am sorry to see you are taking it all so badly. But the difference is really that you are trying to prove Duane was Cooper (to the single minded exclusion of all else), and most others here are trying to find out who Cooper was.

btw there were a number of newspaper reports & mentioned on websites etc talking about federal employees on the plane, it is not secret. I'm sorry that the rest of us don't see FBI conspiracies at every turn, but that is just the way it is. It's got nothing to do with being afraid of the govermment (why should I be afraid of the US govt??) but just not seeing that there is anything to "go up against them" with.

Because of where this website is, people want to know who Cooper was. If you are looking for people to help you make sense of Duane's life, perhaps you need to look somewhere else.
Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

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