DB Cooper

[georger 247]

Quote

georger said:
"And to think the Great Snowbird MISSED the Tacoma
angle altogether! Shame. "

I did. I'll admit it.
What's the Tacoma Angle?

Cooper brought up Tacoma without any prompting.
It was one of his singular voluntary statements of
fact.

You decided his remark was a random guess. I
decided it was not. Goes to context and background.
Had Cooper ever been seen before at Tacoma?
Did the FBI search for connections at Tacoma? (yes)
Under the weather conditions at the time was Tacoma
even visible from Cooper's position on the airplane?
Why would he mention Tacoma at all? Where was
the plane with respect to Tacoma at the time?
What at Tacoma was significant to this flight, if anything? Did Cooper mention Tacoma more than
once? Who was the Chief of Police at Tacoma at
the time? Is there anything at Tacoma that relates
to Vancouver and where the money was found?

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

Rolling Fork is a water trough compared to the Washougal. There are only 3 ways the money got into the Columbia.
1. Cooper landed in the Columbia
2. Someone threw the money into the Columbia...at a later date.
3. All or part of the money was separated from Cooper when he jumped.

Hate to be the party pooper again, but this is patently false. #1 & #3 are impossible; they do not explain the money unless you add in some "conspiracy" type thinking (ie, more than one person handling the Cooper ransom or a literal army of people monitoring the flight all got it wrong)

You also ommitted a viable explanation, which is that Cooper himself placed the money somewhere in the Washougal watershed.

I want to remind people that if you're thinking about the Washougal, it's quite a leap of faith. He did not land there, so he would have had to hike. It's possible, but I don't think it would be likely that he'd survive then hike up some mountains to hide the money... but whatever.

Right now, the only Cooper I care about is Marquis. I knew him, and my heart goes out to him, his wife, his daughter, his family, and all of his friends. He was always nice to me and was quite a remarkable person. I hope we can all get some closure, but I'm also realistic...

You are good. Its always a pleasure to read almost
anything you have to say. Damn. You are good.

[georger 247]

Quote

Wow PLF, I didn't know you lost a friend.

The survivor's story about the other two taking off their life jackets and drifting/swimming away is bizzare. He must be very stressed and who knows how it affected his perception and memory. Hypothermia and hallucinations go hand in hand.

If only they had carried an EPIRB distress beacon. Hard to understand how anyone would go so far offshore in a small craft without one.

My condolences go out to you and to all concerned.

377

Sounds like somebody swallowed
some salt water? After say 5 hours, well you know
the rest ...

Condolences also -

[377 22]

Quote

Cooper was not "clever". He hijacked and aeroplane,
for God's sake. He did not oxygenate the hemoglobin
molecule and get a Nobel Prize while trading in rare
metals!

This guy starts ringing bells at the moron scale.
The only question is how smart a dummy he was

Be considerate of the FBI Georger. They'd feel a whole lot better if their only unsoved skyjacking was done by a mastermind rather than a moron.

For me the jury is still out on Cooper's intellect. I see indications of both idiocy and high intelligence.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[georger 247]

Quote

Quote

Cooper was not "clever". He hijacked and aeroplane,
for God's sake. He did not oxygenate the hemoglobin
molecule and get a Nobel Prize while trading in rare
metals!

This guy starts ringing bells at the moron scale.
The only question is how smart a dummy he was

Be considerate of the FBI Georger. They'd feel a whole lot better if their only unsoved skyjacking was done by a mastermind rather than a moron.

For me the jury is still out on Cooper's intellect. I see indications of both idiocy and high intelligence.

377

I go through stages and come back to the same
profile every single time. Must be an obsession.

I can still set you up with VT psk if you want.
Just linked another guy tonight. You're next. .
PM me.

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Quote

Cooper was not "clever". He hijacked and aeroplane,
for God's sake. He did not oxygenate the hemoglobin
molecule and get a Nobel Prize while trading in rare
metals!

This guy starts ringing bells at the moron scale.
The only question is how smart a dummy he was

Be considerate of the FBI Georger. They'd feel a whole lot better if their only unsoved skyjacking was done by a mastermind rather than a moron.

For me the jury is still out on Cooper's intellect. I see indications of both idiocy and high intelligence.

377

You are both right !

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[skyjack71 0]

Quote

Cooper brought up Tacoma without any prompting.
It was one of his singular voluntary statements of
fact.

Tacoma was very important...and I believe I have told why before. It regarded an investment in some commercial real estate that went sour in the 60's. Two individuals where involved in this - I gave the FBI the information, but they never checked it out. Also another connection with Tacoma was a step son.

Remember this - when you look out that window you not only see Tacoma - you see McNeil Island Federal Prison. They fall within the same area from an airplane window. If he had pointed out something as insignifcant as Steillacoon where McNeil Federal Prison is located - it would have been like a Beacon Light into the past of Cooper. After all he was smart like a Fox, right.

On our trip to Seattle these are the things he told me and the things he pointed out. The prison was just information in passing - I did not know he had been a prior resident at that time.

The FBI has had this information since 1996.

Copyright 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 2013, 2014, 2015 by Jo Weber

[Orange1 0]

Quote

We have these really good suspects like Mayfield and McCoy who are ruled out primarily if not exclusively by alibis that the FBI investigated and believed.

Snow, Sluggo, Georger, all: is it possible that McCoy's alibi was fake? Mayfield's? Just how solid were they? What would it have taken to make fake ones that the FBI would buy as true?

Neither suspects were a perfect match to the sketches or witness descriptions but they were close enough.

Ralph H knew a lot about Mayfield. He is reported to be sure it was not Mayfield. Based on alibi alone or something more? Didnt Mayfield call in contemporaneously with Norjack and say "it isnt me"? That is a bit weird.

I may have my facts wrong, but McCoy seemed like such a great fit but for the alibi.

377

377, if you go browse through other Cooper forums - there are plenty arguments for both these. We had some of these people in the first thread for a while too until...certain elements basically shouted them down.
McCoy, i have posted not long ago - had some family members who claimed the tie was his.
Mayfield - there is a very intriguing conspiracy theory that he had something on H and basically 'forced' him to be his alibi i.e. the mysterious phone call. I can't remember what the situation was, but Mayfield did know H from before the Cooper story.

It wouldn't be the first time in history someone has had someone else lie about an alibi ...

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[BruceSmith 3]

Greetings All,


I’m a new guy to Drop Zone, and this is my first post.

My name is Bruce A. Smith, and I’m a journalist from Pierce County, Washington. I’ve been in the DB Cooper hunt since August, 2008, when I met Ron and Pat Forman while covering an air show at Thun Field, near Tacoma, Washington.

Of the 400-plus pages here on the DB Cooper forum I’ve read about 100, so please forgive if my questions have been answered elsewhere.

One question I’d like to ask tonight is about Cooper’s DZ. I understand that the exact location is a matter of debate, but I haven’t seen any discussion of the writings by Himmelsbach, and Calame and Rhodes on the subject.

Himmelsbach says in his book “Norjak,” that the skipper of the Continental Airlines jetliner directly behind NWA Flight 305 in V-23, and in-bound to Portland at 14,000 feet, told him the winds were 80 knots and coming at him from 166 degrees. He also said that when he landed to the east at Portland, the cross winds were at his “fudge factor” of safety.

This is at odds with what I have read previously here, and have heard from the FBI, which claim a heading of 225 degrees or so and variable winds between 15-15 knots form 7,000 feet to the surface. Has this discrepancy been resolved?

Also, Calame and Rhodes write in their book, “DB Cooper- The Real McCoy,” that Himmelsbach claims that Capt Wm. Scott of Flight 305 told him in 1980 that he was flying over Woodland, Washington, not Ariel 10 miles to the east, when the pressure bump occurred.

Both this factors would place DB Cooper’s DZ in a vastly different place than what the FBI claims, and what has been discussed here.

Any ideas what the truth is?

Thanks. BAS

[georger 247]

Quote

Greetings All,


I’m a new guy to Drop Zone, and this is my first post.

My name is Bruce A. Smith, and I’m a journalist from Pierce County, Washington. I’ve been in the DB Cooper hunt since August, 2008, when I met Ron and Pat Forman while covering an air show at Thun Field, near Tacoma, Washington.

Of the 400-plus pages here on the DB Cooper forum I’ve read about 100, so please forgive if my questions have been answered elsewhere.

One question I’d like to ask tonight is about Cooper’s DZ. I understand that the exact location is a matter of debate, but I haven’t seen any discussion of the writings by Himmelsbach, and Calame and Rhodes on the subject.

Himmelsbach says in his book “Norjak,” that the skipper of the Continental Airlines jetliner directly behind NWA Flight 305 in V-23, and in-bound to Portland at 14,000 feet, told him the winds were 80 knots and coming at him from 166 degrees. He also said that when he landed to the east at Portland, the cross winds were at his “fudge factor” of safety.

This is at odds with what I have read previously here, and have heard from the FBI, which claim a heading of 225 degrees or so and variable winds between 15-15 knots form 7,000 feet to the surface. Has this discrepancy been resolved?

Also, Calame and Rhodes write in their book, “DB Cooper- The Real McCoy,” that Himmelsbach claims that Capt Wm. Scott of Flight 305 told him in 1980 that he was flying over Woodland, Washington, not Ariel 10 miles to the east, when the pressure bump occurred.

Both this factors would place DB Cooper’s DZ in a vastly different place than what the FBI claims, and what has been discussed here.

Any ideas what the truth is?

Thanks. BAS

Welcome Bruce. I hope your time here will be
productive and enjoyable.

The McCoy book hasnt been discussed much here
(I brought it up recently in passing) primarily because the FBI dismissed McCoy on physical and
other grounds, as being DB Cooper.

Some of us here like myself tend to take the work of the FBI seriously, and work from that foundation.

The Contenental pilot, Bohan, was been discussed
here, at some length. I and others take his testimony very seriously but there is a problem
reconciling his report with the standard (FBI)
report on winds that evening.

Perhaps you could give people a synopsis of the Ron and Pat Forman work as that has not been covered here.

Simply put, the DZ is uncertain because the
flight path is uncertain, likewise the issue of
the oscillations vs bump (pressure fluctuation)
which occured. Ckret was of the opinion that the
oscillations and bump were two distinct events.

Good luck -

Georger

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

BruceSmith,


First, let me apologize for not (yet) responding to your e-mail. I am home (in Alabama) for the first time in nine weeks and your e-mail came while I was preparing to travel (extra-long work days, packing, etc.).

Second, welcome to this forum (thread). This is the best forum on NORJAK going today. It is full of weird-Os, creeps, serious philosophers, scientist, journalist, and nut-cases. It is hosted by a bunch of skydivers who would really prefer that we go somewhere else and moderated by the “world’s most boring skydiver” who doesn’t see why it is all such a big deal.

Third, I have read Ron and Pat’s book and while I found it intriguing, I also found it very slim on facts (as I know them or believe I know them).

My first challenge to you (in your role as a journalist) would be to prove that Captain Bohan and his Continental Airways Flight actually existed. Not one respected journalist, researcher, nor FBI spokesperson (Robbie, notice I used a gender non-specific term), has shown any indication that the flight ever existed. Also, when thinking about this testimony (the Bohan thing), ask yourself why a (FAA part 135, passenger carrying) pilot would be flying on a VFR, Low-altitude Airway (V-23), at 14,000 MSL, while on approach to PDX and not the ILS (Instrument Landing System) inbound from the west (landing to the East). Get these issues resolved (to snowmman’s and georger’s satisfaction) and then you can call it “the truth” (the term you used and one I am not allowed to use).

If you can prove that the Bohan/Continental story has legs, then you will have made a major contribution to the body of knowledge about NORJAK.

As an aside… I recently tried to determine how the publishing industry makes the determination as to whether a book is fiction or documentary. I thought the ISBN application would have to indicate which is was and the ISBN # would reflect that indication. Not so! My local library (at the time) told me they place the books on their shelves (fiction vs. non-fiction) by looking the book up at Amazon and following their determination (when listed). I was shocked. So a novel is a novel, when the author/publisher says so, (Like; “The life of Sluggo – A novel about the struggles of a Redneck, by Boeing-377”). Otherwise, it’s non-fiction (or documentary). In the case of non-fiction/documentaries there is no presumption of “journalistic purity” (i.e. literary license may be used). I guess the moral of this story is; “don’t believe all you read.”

Again, welcome,

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Bruce,
Here you'll hear the opinions of a bunch of fat old men, regurgitating the same old tripe that's been regurgitated for 30 years, and sounded all data-like when they do so. (you just saw it).

Rather than writing another piece of crap, just write the simple story

1) the "FBI" was here, and never identified a current DZ. They won't and can't because there's no data that says Cooper jumped in the woods. Therefore there's no data that says he obviously died because of the conditions of the DZ.

2) There is no "scientific" story to be written because there is no data that has good provenance.

3) Any theory anyone has is as speculative as the next.

No one knows where the fuck he jumped, where he landed, what happened to the body or chute, or how the money got to Tena Bar.

That's the story.

Everything else is bullshit.

Now if you want other info about nuclear weapons, flight paths for hijacking Piper Cherokees to Mexico, uranium, gold bars etc. I can help.

By posting here, you just got put on a terrorism watch list. You can tell by looking at the "ads by Google" above. You'll see terrorism related stuff. That means you're on the list.

Jo Weber is here, and may have more details about the DZ for you though.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

snowmman,

Quote

Here you'll hear the opinions of a bunch of fat old men, regurgitating the same old tripe that's been regurgitated for 30 years….

I resent that and hereby demand that you make changes to your post!

Change it to read:
Here you'll hear the opinions of a bunch of fat, insomniac, old men, regurgitating the same old tripe that's been regurgitated for 30 years….

Do it now… or I’ll send to cops to your house!


Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[snowmman 3]

Quote

Do it now… or I’ll send to cops to your house!


Sluggo_Monster

What's really funny, is how during the Bush years, Ckret naturally fell into the same kind of fear-mongering-as-joke way of interacting with the public.

Bruce: I would write the real terror story, that points out how unsafe aviation still is.

That Cooper was bullshit. 4 others jumped and survived, and that it's still possible to find a jet you could jump out of.

And if you wanted to really fuck things up, simultaneous attack of all 21 ARTCC radar sites would do it.

See, it's beautiful, we can talk about anything.
That's what the newspapers are dying. It's all about the web.

Hey the first thing any new Cooperite gets accused of is:
"You're writing a book"....
it's like there's a bunch of people obsessed with people's motives.

Next it's
"Hey you're FBI/CIA/NSA"

Next it's
"you're stupid, Cooper is stupid, everyone is stupid except me, the only one who can parse the data"

Last is
"Jo is stupid and I am smart"

Georger is the best at that last one.

[377 22]

Quote

“The life of Sluggo – A novel about the struggles of a Redneck, by Boeing-377”

I have already optioned the screenplay. David Lynch wants to direct it, but I prefer the Cohn Brothers.

Any suggestion for lead actor?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Quote

And if you wanted to really fuck things up, simultaneous attack of all 21 ARTCC radar sites would do it.

Well that just got you on the DHS A list. I can't let you outdo me Snow.

Yellow cake, dirty bomb, isotopes, uranium, plutonium, C4, nitrate, 235, 238, thorium, fertilizer, diesel, dynamite, TNT, shipping container, radio-opaque, lead shield, x ray, airborne, pathogen, water supply.

That should do it.

The first amendment needs to be exercised or it will atrophy.

I'll now have to arrive 2 hours early to make my flights if they let me board at all. With any luck Snow will also be waiting to be interviewed by the DHS morons and we can talk smack about Cooper.

Hey Georger. W6DBC is taken but K6DBC is available. Should I apply? Not fully PSK enabled yet but can do HF RTTY. QCX?

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[377 22]

Bruce,

If Bohan existed, how would he independently know winds aloft? You need ground speed and ground track data and a computer that can compare it to airspeed and course and express the difference as winds aloft. It can be manually calculated if you have DME, but domestic airliners didn't carry navigators and the flight deck crew would be very busy with other things on approach.

INS (inertial nav systems) and Doppler Nav can calculate and display winds aloft, but Continental domestic aircraft carried neither. GPS wasn't operational in 71.

I am not a licensed pilot so maybe I am missing something obvious. Pilots chime in.

Welcome to the forum.

377

2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Hey the first thing any new Cooperite gets accused of is:
"You're writing a book"....
it's like there's a bunch of people obsessed with people's motives.

Next it's
"Hey you're FBI/CIA/NSA"

Um, just to point out that those only come from Jo, and only if you don't agree that Duane was Cooper.

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Orange1 0]

Quote

Quote

“The life of Sluggo – A novel about the struggles of a Redneck, by Boeing-377”

I have already optioned the screenplay. David Lynch wants to direct it, but I prefer the Cohn Brothers.

Any suggestion for lead actor?

377

Yup. John Cusack.

(I have no idea what Sluggo looks like btw. I just like John Cusack )

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

You left out:
Hand-held laser near airport, magnetic rail-gun, Xe-131, brylcream and swimming pool, xerox machine, face transplant, stolen stinger missle (LAWS), Paris Hilton, and Code name "Azul".

SLuggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[Sluggo_Monster 0]

If he has to look like me, you'll need the actor, I don't know his name, but he played "Jabba the Hut" in the first episode of Star Wars.
See... I do have a sense of humor.

Sluggo_Monster

Web Page
Blog
NORJAK Forum

[georger 247]

Hey Georger. W6DBC is taken but K6DBC is available. Should I apply? Not fully PSK enabled yet but can do HF RTTY. QCX?

377

[snowmman 3]

In 1981, a monk hijacked an Aer Lingus jet demanding that the Pope release the Third Secret of Fatima.

It was not revealed until 2000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Secrets_of_Fatima

The details of that hijack are murky and perhaps part of the coverup. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aer_Lingus

from wikipedia
"In 1981, an Aer Lingus flight from Dublin to London was hijacked and diverted to Le Touquet - Côte d'Opale Airport in France. While authorities negotiated with the hijacker by radio in the cockpit, French special forces entered the rear of the aircraft and overpowered him. None of the passengers or crew were injured during the hijacking.

The official record shows the reason as: One hijacker demanded to be taken to Iran. Plane stormed/hijacker arrested. Duration of the hijacking: less than 1 day.

While various media reports indicated that the man, a former Trappist monk, demanded that the Pope release the third secret of Fátima."

On 11/24/09, assuming the appropriate cash is placed in escrow, I will be placed in the killer North Woods of WA.

Three days later, I will emerge, meeting an appropriately garbed hot babe.

It is then, that I will reveal the Third Secret of the Washougal.

And that's the story.

[georger 247]

My first challenge to you (in your role as a journalist) would be to prove that Captain Bohan and his Continental Airways Flight actually existed. Not one respected journalist, researcher, nor FBI spokesperson (Robbie, notice I used a gender non-specific term), has shown any indication that the flight ever existed. Also, when thinking about this testimony (the Bohan thing), ask yourself why a (FAA part 135, passenger carrying) pilot would be flying on a VFR, Low-altitude Airway (V-23), at 14,000 MSL, while on approach to PDX and not the ILS (Instrument Landing System) inbound from the west (landing to the East). Get these issues resolved (to snowmman’s and georger’s satisfaction) and then you can call it “the truth” (the term you used and one I am not allowed to use).

If you can prove that the Bohan/Continental story has legs, then you will have made a major contribution to the body of knowledge about NORJAK.

Reply> Yea well, let's get serious about this.

Tom Bohan existed. He isn't myth. Bohan made his contact with H through one Kenneth Hastings who was the Manager of the airport at Portland at the time ...
this resulted in H and Bohan having breakfast. This
is the account on NORJAK.

Snowman found flight skeds for NWA. Maybe old
flight skeds exist for the Continental flight that day.

Let me ask around.

[snowmman 3]

"Snowman found flight skeds for NWA. Maybe old
flight skeds exist for the Continental flight that day."

I don't just have flight schedules. I have all of them. Why do I have all of them? So no one else can see them.

Ask yourself "why has no one mentioned the flight schedules before"

And why did Flight 305 stop in Missoula?
And why did it start in Washington, D.C.?
Jo knows: the conspiracy.

There is at least a 10 part series that can be written for the masses on Cooper.

Like I said, we have to jumpstart the economy. During a depression, people love this stuff. Remember the velodrome craze? Lance Armstrong has it right. He's going to be huge again.

(edit) I was thinking of important details. A new one we uncovered was that they dug up Duane's dog. I would hate that future generations would have to rediscover that on their own. It needs to be published. I know this a little insensitive, Jo, but it is an important piece of data, since the question of burial in the yard was raised, and we didn't know what kind of searching had been done. Luckily, now we know.